Posted: 5/19/2011 2:12:35 PM EDT
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I know the word rapture isn't in the bible. But where does it reference it in scripture?
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Mythical creation of one person from the 1800's. Most Americans are so ignorant of scripture (myself included in many ways) that they just take whatever the preacher at their megachurch says as fact. No questions asked. yes. its a false teaching. search the internet you will find the historical analysis of the folks coming up with the idea and what parts of the bible they 'interpreted' to create the rapture doctrine. |
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Mythical creation of one person from the 1800's. Most Americans are so ignorant of scripture (myself included in many ways) that they just take whatever the preacher at their megachurch says as fact. No questions asked. yes. its a false teaching. search the internet you will find the historical analysis of the folks coming up with the idea and what parts of the bible they 'interpreted' to create the rapture doctrine. You are both wrong. The "catching away" is clearly taught throughout the New testament. Spend more time actually reading the Bible, and less quoting other folks that don't know any more than you do. |
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Mythical creation of one person from the 1800's. Most Americans are so ignorant of scripture (myself included in many ways) that they just take whatever the preacher at their megachurch says as fact. No questions asked. yes. its a false teaching. search the internet you will find the historical analysis of the folks coming up with the idea and what parts of the bible they 'interpreted' to create the rapture doctrine. You are both wrong. The "catching away" is clearly taught throughout the New testament. Spend more time actually reading the Bible, and less quoting other folks that don't know any more than you do. Care to show me a verse where Jesus spoke of the Rapture there, Billy Graham? For those that care to read another viewpoint, since Painless is the foremost authority on Christ's return, click here. |
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Mythical creation of one person from the 1800's. Most Americans are so ignorant of scripture (myself included in many ways) that they just take whatever the preacher at their megachurch says as fact. No questions asked. yes. its a false teaching. search the internet you will find the historical analysis of the folks coming up with the idea and what parts of the bible they 'interpreted' to create the rapture doctrine. You are both wrong. The "catching away" is clearly taught throughout the New testament. Spend more time actually reading the Bible, and less quoting other folks that don't know any more than you do. /GySgt Hartman/ None of you dumbasses know.../GySgt Hartman/ |
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Mythical creation of one person from the 1800's. Most Americans are so ignorant of scripture (myself included in many ways) that they just take whatever the preacher at their megachurch says as fact. No questions asked. yes. its a false teaching. search the internet you will find the historical analysis of the folks coming up with the idea and what parts of the bible they 'interpreted' to create the rapture doctrine. You are both wrong. The "catching away" is clearly taught throughout the New testament. Spend more time actually reading the Bible, and less quoting other folks that don't know any more than you do. Amen |
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Taken from the site I linked to. And while I don't claim to be a direct line to God, or a Bible scholar, I do know where and when the doctrine of the Pre-Trib rapture came from.
Whenever a Christian encounters a doctrine that has not been taught by anyone in any branch of Christ’s church for over eighteen centuries, one should be very suspect of that teaching. This fact in and of itself does not prove that the new teaching is false. But, it should definitely raise one’s suspicions, for if something is taught in Scripture, it is not unreasonable to expect at least a few theologians and exegetes to have discovered it before. The teaching of a secret pretribulation rapture is a doctrine that never existed before 1830. Did the pretribulation rapture come into existence by a careful exegesis of Scripture? No. The first person to teach the doctrine was a young woman named Margaret Macdonald. Margaret was not a theologian or Bible expositor but was a prophetess in the Irvingite sect (the Catholic Apostolic Church). Christian journalist Dave MacPherson has written a book on the subject of the origin of the pre-tribulation rapture. He writes: “We have seen that a young Scottish lassie named Margaret Macdonald had a private revelation in Port Glasgow, Scotland, in the early part of 1830 that a select group of Christians would be caught up to meet Christ in the air before the days of Antichrist. An eye-and-ear witness, Robert Norton M.D., preserved her handwritten account of her pre-trib rapture revelation in two of his books, and said it was the first time anyone ever split the second coming into two distinct parts or stages. His writings, along with much other Catholic Apostolic Church literature, have been hidden many decades from the mainstream of Evangelical thought and only recently surfaced. Margaret’s views were well-known to those who visited her home, among them John Darby of the Brethren. Within a few months her distinctive prophetic outlook was mirrored in the September, 1830 issue of The Morning Watch and the early Brethren assembly at Plymouth, England. Early disciples of the pre-trib interpretation often called it a new doctrine.”2 John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), who was the leader of the Brethren movement and the “father of modern Dispensationalism,” took Margaret Macdonald’s new teaching on the rapture, made some changes (she taught a partial rapture of believers while he taught that all believers would be raptured) and incorporated it into his Dispensational understanding of Scripture and prophecy. Darby would spend the rest of his life speaking, writing and traveling, spreading the new rapture theory. The Plymouth Brethren openly admitted and were even proud of the fact that among their teachings were totally new ones which had never been taught by the church fathers, medieval scholastics, Protestant Reformers or the many commentators. The person most responsible for the rather widespread acceptance of Pretribulationalism and Dispensationalism among Evangelicals is Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921). C. I. Scofield published his Scofield Reference Bible in 1909. This Bible, which espoused the doctrines of Darby in its notes, became very popular in Fundamentalist circles. In the minds of many a Bible teacher, fundamentalist pastor and multitudes of professing Christians, Scofield’s notes were practically equated with the word of God itself. If a person did not adhere to the Dispensational, Pretribulational scheme he or she would almost automatically be labeled a modernist. Today there is a whole plethora of books advocating the pretribulation rapture theory and the Dispensational understanding of the end times. Given the fact that among professing Christians the pre-trib rapture is still wildly popular, a comparison of this theory with scriptural teaching is warranted. We will see that the typical arguments offered in favor of this theory are in conflict with the Bible. |
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Care to show me a verse where Jesus spoke of the Rapture there, Billy Graham? There are many theological questions that Jesus did not specifically address. But Evangelical Christians hold ALL of the New Testament to be authoritative, not just the direct quotes of Jesus. For those that care to read another viewpoint, since Painless is the foremost authority on Christ's return, click here.
Anyone can find some guy that will take the opposite side in any theological discussion. The vast majority of Evangelical Christian scholars believe in the Rapture, as it is clearly taught in the Bible. |
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Mythical creation of one person from the 1800's. Most Americans are so ignorant of scripture (myself included in many ways) that they just take whatever the preacher at their megachurch says as fact. No questions asked. yes. its a false teaching. search the internet you will find the historical analysis of the folks coming up with the idea and what parts of the bible they 'interpreted' to create the rapture doctrine. You are both wrong. The "catching away" is clearly taught throughout the New testament. Spend more time actually reading the Bible, and less quoting other folks that don't know any more than you do. Amen brother! |
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Care to show me a verse where Jesus spoke of the Rapture there, Billy Graham? There are many theological questions that Jesus did not specifically address. But Evangelical Christians hold ALL of the New Testament to be authoritative, not just the direct quotes of Jesus. For those that care to read another viewpoint, since Painless is the foremost authority on Christ's return, click here.
Anyone can find some guy that will take the opposite side in any theological discussion. The vast majority of Evangelical Christian scholars believe in the Rapture, as it is clearly taught in the Bible. Ok dude. We can agree to disagree. |
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It's sort of like the "circles of hell" some fucking preacher or priest made it up and it somehow became mainstream religious thought. I've never heard of the circles of hell being mainstream thought. All the Bible has to say about the physical nature of Hell is that it is a lake of fire and brimstone that lacks the presence of the Lord. It is also dark. |
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Mythical creation of one person from the 1800's. Most Americans are so ignorant of scripture (myself included in many ways) that they just take whatever the preacher at their megachurch says as fact. No questions asked. yes. its a false teaching. search the internet you will find the historical analysis of the folks coming up with the idea and what parts of the bible they 'interpreted' to create the rapture doctrine. You are both wrong. The "catching away" is clearly taught throughout the New testament. Spend more time actually reading the Bible, and less quoting other folks that don't know any more than you do. Can you direct me to some passages please? |
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You might want to ask a mod to move this to the religion forum unless you want the anti-religion folks to come in here and hijack this thread. They don't bother me, as long as people remain civil I'll respect their view points. There wasn't much traffic in the religous forum and I was getting impatient, so I posted in GD. |
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Quoted: It's sort of like the "circles of hell" some fucking preacher or priest made it up and it somehow became mainstream religious thought. Not really. That scheme (as described ad nauseum by Dante) is entirely extra-Biblical. The statement that Christ will return to take the believers up to paradise is clearly based on scripture. |
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Can you direct me to some passages please? While Wikipedia isn't the "best" source, it has a short explanation that is pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture Click on the "Biblical Texts" on the right side of the page for a list. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Can you direct me to some passages please? While Wikipedia isn't the "best" source, it has a short explanation that is pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture Also, if you really want to dig deep into this (or many other theological topics), consider borrowing or buying a copy of Wayne Grudem's 'Systematic Theology'. It's an excellent book arranged topically and available cheap. Here it is for $30 and free shipping at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Systematic-Theology-Introduction-Biblical-Doctrine/dp/0310286700/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305846887&sr=8-1 |
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I don't see the benefit of focusing your Bible study time on predicting how the End Times will play out. I don't really have a desire to be the guy who predicted it without error. I think learning how to lead a better life, help my fellow man, and form a better relationship with God are a much better use of my time.
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It's sort of like the "circles of hell" some fucking preacher or priest made it up and it somehow became mainstream religious thought. Not really. That scheme (as described ad nauseum by Dante) is entirely extra-Biblical. The statement that Christ will return to take the believers up to paradise is clearly based on scripture. That is correct. The "levels of Hell" idea was usually based upon one statement, referenced several times in the Gospels. Matt 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. The "more tolerable" comment was stretched to indicate "levels" of punishment in Hell. Other than that, there is no Biblical basis for Dante's scheme. I've never even heard "circles of Hell" mentioned in my entire life of listening to preaching. It is certainly not "mainstream religious thought". |
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Can you direct me to some passages please? While Wikipedia isn't the "best" source, it has a short explanation that is pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture Also, if you really want to dig deep into this (or many other theological topics), consider borrowing or buying a copy of Wayne Grudem's 'Systematic Theology'. It's an excellent book arranged topically and available cheap. Here it is for $30 and free shipping at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Systematic-Theology-Introduction-Biblical-Doctrine/dp/0310286700/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305846887&sr=8-1 Why would I want to read ABOUT the Bible when I can read it myself? The author, while I am sure he is sincere in his faith, writes from a Calvinistic point of view. Hardly neutral. |
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Quoted: The "levels of Hell" idea was usually based upon one statement, referenced several times in the Gospels. Matt 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. The "more tolerable" comment was stretched to indicate "levels" of punishment in Hell. Huh. That's pretty interesting. I hadn't ever heard that line of reasoning, but it sure explains a lot. We tend to have this idea that God will punish the worst sinners in the worst ways, but that notion ignores the significance of utter separation from God. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can you direct me to some passages please? While Wikipedia isn't the "best" source, it has a short explanation that is pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture Also, if you really want to dig deep into this (or many other theological topics), consider borrowing or buying a copy of Wayne Grudem's 'Systematic Theology'. It's an excellent book arranged topically and available cheap. Here it is for $30 and free shipping at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Systematic-Theology-Introduction-Biblical-Doctrine/dp/0310286700/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305846887&sr=8-1 Why would I want to read ABOUT the Bible when I can read it myself? The author, while I am sure he is sincere in his faith, writes from a Calvinistic point of view. Hardly neutral. With all due respect, I can read the Bible myself, too, but it helps to have scholarly works based on others' lifetimes of devotion to understand what I am reading. I'm a smart guy, but nobody knows everything. God can use other authors to reveal truth. (I am not suggesting that other scripture exists outside of the Bible, only that God uses lots of different people in lots of different ways.) So far as neutrality, I never said it was. A perfectly neutral book on theology would probably not tell you much of anything at all. |
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I don't see the benefit of focusing your Bible study time on predicting how the End Times will play out. I don't really have a desire to be the guy who predicted it without error. I think learning how to lead a better life, help my fellow man, and form a better relationship with God are a much better use of my time. Your point is a good one. But I do not "focus" on Eschatology. I just study it as well as other topics in Scripture. It is obviously "important" or God would not have placed it in His Book. He placed it there so that we could know about it. If He didn't want us to know the facts about it, He wouldn't have included it. I don't "worry" about it. But I want to know what God says about it. 
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Can you direct me to some passages please? While Wikipedia isn't the "best" source, it has a short explanation that is pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture Click on the "Biblical Texts" on the right side of the page for a list. Thanks. |
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It's sort of like the "circles of hell" some fucking preacher or priest made it up and it somehow became mainstream religious thought. I lean toward this, and the fact the different denominations cant agree when said Rapture will occur (pre-, during, or post tribulation, depending on what church you go to), tells me its man made gobbedly gook. Why would the Lord spare anybody when the SHTF? If you're prepared, you have no worries. ETA: That's just my thoughts. You belive what you will though 
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