Posted: 6/18/2011 12:44:54 PM EDT
So I'm a fairly new Volly in a fairly busy department. I've been in about 4 months now, and am beginning my SCBA classes. Had my first one the other night, and were working on doing interior searches in our traning trailer. While doing so, one of the obstacles in our way was a fairly small diameter tube that we were supposed to crawl through. Now, I was told that everyone in the dept gets through the tube (Volly = not everyone is the picture of health  ), but I don't buy that. I'm fairly in shape - 6'4" 270 with an athletic build, but far from a body builder. I tried "supermanning it" and couldn't get through (shoulders got wedged and couldn't push myself through with my feet). I tried hands under my chest, and if I tried that, the Drager doesn't fit in the tube. My biggest issues was my chest and shoulders, not my gut. Is there a better technique? Or is it just a size game at this point?
Next week is the reduce profile between wall studs. That could be interesting to. 
Anyone with any tips or tricks? |
| We have the same requirement. Do they let you take the pack off and slide it in front of you? We let the bigger guys do that. If not, the only way I know is to get one arm out in front and the other down your side. You can reduce your size in the shoulders a little that way. Elbows and feet push you through. |
| The last time I did the maze I fit through okay but the bigger guys take the packs off and push it in front of them. We didn't have any pipe to crawl through so your version sounds harder. We just had a tight area to crawl through that I can best describe as somewhat rectangular. I never did see it with the light on as we had to use blackout masks. Fun though. |
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lean your back against the wall, between the studs...fit the cylinder through and backstroke your way in...trust me, a 6'2 320 pound can do you can...and im not that man
also, in pipe situations or small areas...take the pack off and hold it against your chest while you crawl....DO NOT push it out in front of you...a smart instructor would have your ass, as in if your in a building doing that...pushing a cylinder in front of you, you could easily push it off an unknown ledge...and take your head or at least your SCBA with it |
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I hate those goddamn "crawl through the pipe" things. Supposed to be mask confidence; all it does is freak me the fuck out. Full removal is the only option for someone our size (6'2, 230). Getting between studs and stuff is much easier, and yes, Mr. Stud, meet Mr. Halligan.
I have my interior tags but I'm just as happy much happier running the pump. |
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Lay on your side, bottom arm extended overhead. Loosen you pack and rest it on your hip/flank...keep one strap over your shoulder. Inch worm thru.
As described before with the studs. Back and tank positioned between studs then take one arm and sweep it high over-head back stroke it thru and repeat with your second arm. Once your shoulders clear push thru with your feet. As far as removing a stud...well that's not the training and IMHO illustrates a huge problem with some trainings. The training is what the training is. Saying you wouldn't do it that way and therefore won't, is silly. Its a lot easier to TALK about taking a stud out than it really is. Imagine being lost/tired/limited visibility/injured/ etc... Then having to move shit out of the way, remove the base board, breach the wall and then having to remove the stud, from your knees with any/or all of the above ascribed conditions. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Lay on your side, bottom arm extended overhead. Loosen you pack and rest it on your hip/flank...keep one strap over your shoulder. Inch worm thru. As described before with the studs. Back and tank positioned between studs then take one arm and sweep it high over-head back stroke it thru and repeat with your second arm. Once your shoulders clear push thru with your feet. As far as removing a stud...well that's not the training and IMHO illustrates a huge problem with some trainings. The training is what the training is. Saying you wouldn't do it that way and therefore won't, is silly. Its a lot easier to TALK about taking a stud out than it really is. Imagine being lost/tired/limited visibility/injured/ etc... Then having to move shit out of the way, remove the base board, breach the wall and then having to remove the stud, from your knees with any/or all of the above ascribed conditions. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Sorry, I should have clarified. I have done and can do the standard "backwards swim" between studs. It's tight, but I can go. That said, if you get into oddball construction, the opening may not be 2x4s on 16" centers. Effort-wise, taking out a stud ain't that hard. If you've opened the wall enough to know you can't fit between the studs, it should only take one or two good swings from an axe or halligan to pop a stud off its nails. Remove baseboard? No need. |
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Lay on your side, bottom arm extended overhead. Loosen you pack and rest it on your hip/flank...keep one strap over your shoulder. Inch worm thru. As described before with the studs. Back and tank positioned between studs then take one arm and sweep it high over-head back stroke it thru and repeat with your second arm. Once your shoulders clear push thru with your feet. As far as removing a stud...well that's not the training and IMHO illustrates a huge problem with some trainings. The training is what the training is. Saying you wouldn't do it that way and therefore won't, is silly. Its a lot easier to TALK about taking a stud out than it really is. Imagine being lost/tired/limited visibility/injured/ etc... Then having to move shit out of the way, remove the base board, breach the wall and then having to remove the stud, from your knees with any/or all of the above ascribed conditions. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile We got a Pro FUBAR on demo and wound up buying several more. All you have to do with it is bust the hole, grab thee stud and twist it loose. We've been able to make two 36" x 16" openings into a single 36"x32" in less than a minute without having to paul bunyan through the center stud. That said. I'm not the smallest truck ape and I can loosen my straps, drop the pack under my arm and make it through a 16 o.c. space, even with all the extraneous crap I carry in my pockets. 
As far as pushing the pack ahead of you in the tube drill, they taught us that at the U of I Smokediver class. You don't take off the pack and just skooch it ahead waiting for it to fall through the first hole it finds, and moving through a claustrophobia inducing space in training helps to de-sensitize you in case you get into a tight spot IRL. At least that's what they told us.
Roll on your L side (assuming your regulator is on the L) loosen your shoulder straps and waistbelt and unclip your waistbelt.
* Different schools of thought on this - some say valve away from you, others say valve towards you. I see the valve as more of an entanglement hazard that the round top of the cylinder and I seem to have plenty of working space. As always [Standard Fire Service Disclaimer] "follow the rules, regulations, trianing and SOP's of your home department concerning this or any other skill or procedure, as they may vary from the training you receive here" [/Standard Fire Service Disclaimer]
Why GTFO? Unless you're involved with some super high speed low drag technical rescue bullsh*t you'd damn well never be doing this to get in to somewhere. This is a way for you to get out and go home. A few quick links: http://www.firefightingincanada.com/content/view/3756/213/ http://www.firehouse.com/stateprovince/other/scba-considerations-part-3-restrictive-area-techniques http://www.fireengineering.com/index/articles/display.articles.fire-engineering.training-days.2011.05.reduced-profile.html |
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Wall stud meet axe. I have been retired for 12 years but never heard of anything like crawl thru a pipe,Just a comment. They did it to us a public safety divers (police/fire) conference in the last century as part of a black water obstacle course. __________________________________________ ("Not tonight, old man."––007 escaping thru the door the shark came in through, (w,stte), "Thunderball") |
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So I'm a fairly new Volly in a fairly busy department. I've been in about 4 months now, and am beginning my SCBA classes. Had my first one the other night, and were working on doing interior searches in our traning trailer. While doing so, one of the obstacles in our way was a fairly small diameter tube that we were supposed to crawl through. Now, I was told that everyone in the dept gets through the tube (Volly = not everyone is the picture of health ), but I don't buy that. I'm fairly in shape - 6'4" 270 with an athletic build, but far from a body builder. I tried "supermanning it" and couldn't get through (shoulders got wedged and couldn't push myself through with my feet). I tried hands under my chest, and if I tried that, the Drager doesn't fit in the tube. My biggest issues was my chest and shoulders, not my gut. Is there a better technique? Or is it just a size game at this point?
Next week is the reduce profile between wall studs. That could be interesting to.
Anyone with any tips or tricks? Jefferson county fire school? If so dont feel bad, not many guys get thru the tube without help. I hated the tube 
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Lay on your side, bottom arm extended overhead. Loosen you pack and rest it on your hip/flank...keep one strap over your shoulder. Inch worm thru. As described before with the studs. Back and tank positioned between studs then take one arm and sweep it high over-head back stroke it thru and repeat with your second arm. Once your shoulders clear push thru with your feet. As far as removing a stud...well that's not the training and IMHO illustrates a huge problem with some trainings. The training is what the training is. Saying you wouldn't do it that way and therefore won't, is silly. Its a lot easier to TALK about taking a stud out than it really is. Imagine being lost/tired/limited visibility/injured/ etc... Then having to move shit out of the way, remove the base board, breach the wall and then having to remove the stud, from your knees with any/or all of the above ascribed conditions. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Sorry, I should have clarified. I have done and can do the standard "backwards swim" between studs. It's tight, but I can go. That said, if you get into oddball construction, the opening may not be 2x4s on 16" centers. Effort-wise, taking out a stud ain't that hard. If you've opened the wall enough to know you can't fit between the studs, it should only take one or two good swings from an axe or halligan to pop a stud off its nails. Remove baseboard? No need. Yes and no. I've been standing taking full swings at studs with out them coming loose. Its a rarity, but it does happen. From your knees its a lot more difficult, your training should reflect on of the conditions/disabilities I described above. Just doing it to "do it" is fine the first time, but subsequently you should training in a manner you will likely encounter. What sort of construction are you dealing with? Around me, a lot of the training homes are 1900-1920's and some still have the 8 inch oak base boards, often times the are secured with more stout hardware than you see in today's builds. While I will agree that removing the baseboards isn't 100% necessary, the lath that gets stuck in between can be a hindrance. Removing the baseboard is useful when dragging a downed fire fighter thru as well. Believe me, if I can take out a stud I will ( 6'1" 245lbs) and 95% it won't be an issue. It's that 5% that bothers me, maybe you got unlucky and there is HVAC duct work or some random pipe that only allows you to access that one stud bay. Whacking a stud to make it wider will ALWAYS make getting through easier, but I still believe you need to train for that no being an option. |
| We have a maze trailer that has a long section of pipe that you have to pass through. One technique we use is while working in teams of 2 the first person goes into the pipe acting as a scout, while the second person helps push him through while still holding onto him either by the ankles or witha tether, so that if needed he can pull the guy out in a hurry. The pipe is long enough that you can't reach the other side and just pull yourself through, you have to inchworm it. I'm thin enough (6' 190#) that I can do it without taking my pack off but I do anyways for the practice. |
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So I'm a fairly new Volly in a fairly busy department. I've been in about 4 months now, and am beginning my SCBA classes. Had my first one the other night, and were working on doing interior searches in our traning trailer. While doing so, one of the obstacles in our way was a fairly small diameter tube that we were supposed to crawl through. Now, I was told that everyone in the dept gets through the tube (Volly = not everyone is the picture of health ), but I don't buy that. I'm fairly in shape - 6'4" 270 with an athletic build, but far from a body builder. I tried "supermanning it" and couldn't get through (shoulders got wedged and couldn't push myself through with my feet). I tried hands under my chest, and if I tried that, the Drager doesn't fit in the tube. My biggest issues was my chest and shoulders, not my gut. Is there a better technique? Or is it just a size game at this point?
Next week is the reduce profile between wall studs. That could be interesting to.
Anyone with any tips or tricks? Jefferson county fire school? If so dont feel bad, not many guys get thru the tube without help. I hated the tube Nope, Volunteer FD in Nassau County. It's a part of our mask confidence course. Spoke with one of the instructors today, and he said the idea behind the tube is A) getting used to confined spaces and B) you'll never go into the tube during a search, just as a means of "oh shit egress" as he called it. Wall studs should be coming up, so I'll have to try some of the techniques (the halligan one seems like it will be my favorite  ). I appreciate the advice guys. It just seems like some of this stuff isn't designed for some of us bigger guys. Hell, a leg lock takes me about 5 minutes and had to have someone else smack my foot back through the rungs to get out of it
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| Seriously, for a guy your size, in an extremely exigent circumstance, get that pack off of your back and slide it in front of you. I was a Rapid Intervention guy for my county a few years back, and all we did was lost/dazed/confused/injured/etc Firefighter Rescues (if you heard a Mayday, my team rolled, regardless where in the county). The studs are the same way, knock out a good chunk quickly between two studs, doff your pack, slide it through and go behind it. |
| I try to never take my pack off, just one more thing to get entangled. That being said I'm a small guy (5'10" 160lbs). Try lying on your back, the SCBA bottle is more slippery that your turn out gear. Put one arm out in front and one along side of you or wherever there is room. |