Posted: 6/28/2006 4:49:46 AM EDT
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In the dictionary the term Repent is to feel guilt for one's own act so much as to change ones way's. This topic is dealing with repentance of fornication. please keep it civil, respectful, and truthful Fornication is defined as intercourse among unmarried couples, I.E, adulterers, boy/girlfriends, couples "living" together, one nighters and unfaithful husbands/wives. In the bible it states that every sin we commit is done so without the body except fornication which is a sin against one's own body, the temple of the Holy Ghost, To repent of the sin of fornication would be to abstain from sexual promiscuity, remain a virgin until marriage, But what about the sinners the ones that have done wrong, know that they have wronged and make changes to better themselves to follow God's will. Is that repentance? How does one repent and when the end nears and judgment begins how will we be looked upon? |
Think of repentence as turning around. If we've been walking away from God through our thoughts, words and actions but then turn around and walk toward God, he will honor that. God knows our heart better than we do. He knows if our desire is truly toward him. Remember what Jesus said: Mt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men As long as we're willing to let God's spirit work in our lives he's going to hang onto us. It's when we won't trust God to pull us through that there's nothing he can do for us. But again, God knows our hearts better than we do. We may say or even think we don't believe in God but he knows whether we really do or not. |
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Fornication/Adultery is indeed a serious sin. Repentence involves recognizing the sin, asking God for forgiveness, doing what is possible to repair/rectify the situation, and changing one's heart. Because you can't "undo" fornication, it is more difficult to rectify the situation. Still, a person needs to do what they can to repent, especially doing what is possible to change the situation and change one's heart. You can't un-sleep with somebody you've fornicated with, but you can choose to stop the practice, and even speak out against it. |
| Isn't this true of any sin? You cannot un-steal something or un-lie. All you can do is confess to God and turn from doing it again. When this is done from a true heart of repentence, God says that this sin is so far removed from us as the East is from the West. What's more, it is cast into the sea of forgetfullness meaning that despite God's omniscience which would make it impossible for Him to forget your sin, He chooses by His will to forget that it ever happened. I personally love the truth that we are then justified before God or it is JUST-AS-IF-I'D never sinned in the first place. Praise God for that. |
Actually, if you steal something you can return it or pay the person from whom you've stolen. You can't undo fornication in the same way. |
Ask someone who has had their home broken into whether the sense of violation went away after the cops recovered their TV set. THe damage we do when we sin against another person goes far beyond the physical act. These are spiritual wounds. That's why it takes power to overcome these hurts. It takes God's grace. Jesus said that if you think on a woman you have committed adultery already. That's because the sin -- the debt, really -- isn't just in the flesh. It's in the mind. |
Everything you say is true. My point is that with some sins, the guilty party has an opportunity to attempt literal restitution. You can't do that with sexual sin, hence it can be harder to fully repent. |
If anything, it seems like those are the harder sins to gain forgiveness for, especially from a spouse. But that's what's it's all about — forgiveness. We have to rely on the grace in order to cast the sins out. When a wife can forgive her husband for infidelity or a mother can forgive someone for killing her son or daughter that's some mighty powerful grace at work. Imagine the husband of this woman being retried for drowning her five children. What would it take for him to forgive her. Of course, we weren't talking about forgiveness, we were talking about repentence. But the two do seem to reside in the same neighborhood . . . |
Yes they do. In fact, I believe that they go hand-in-hand. |
Whoa, dude, hold it right there . . . First, I agree that God does not exalt one sin over another. To sin simply means to miss the mark. We can miss the mark in our self-righteousness or judging just as well as we can in committing physical sins like adultry. BUT, and it's a big but, you're twisting scripture to make your point. You are doing anything BUT "rightly discerning the word of truth"! THe verses you quote out of James are from a passage in which James is contrasting the law with liberty. Under the law it didn't matter if you kept 701 laws perfectly if you committed a trespass against another law. You were still a lawbreaker. Some laws were punishable by death so it didn't matter how blameless you were on the adultery law, because if you killed you were going to be put to death just the same. I think that's the point you were making too. But James is not saying that's a good thing. He's saying that's the way it WAS under the law. What you miss is that James says we're no longer under the law but are NOW under the "law of liberty." In short we're under grace. Read the passage in context and note the underlined portion: James 2:8 ¶ If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. God WANTS us to have MERCY. That's what that passage is saying. You took those verses and twisted them on their heads to justify not showing mercy! |
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I am not sure where you get that I am trying not to show mercy. My whole point is that what Christ did on the cross is adequate to forgive every sin through our faith in His sacrifice on the cross. Those who contend that somehow fornication or adultery is a harder sin to gain repentence of because no restitution is possible are the ones who misunderstand grace. Christ is the propitiation for all of our sins that we have ever committed and all that we ever will commit. My point is that God does not make a distinction between missing one area of His perfect will or missing in another. Whether we can show restitution or not has no effect on God's receiving our repentence and those who think they are better off because they never sinned sexually know nothing of what sin is. (And the scriptures declare that through the law we have a knowledge of sin) It seemed to me that the original poster was concerned that he or someone he cared about would not find full acceptance at the judgment because he somewhere had been told that restitution was a part of repentence. Others agreed with his concerns and reinforced this misconception. I was just pointing out through James that such self-righteousness by those who have not committed the same "major" sin as another are not showing mercy through their man-made hierarchy of sins. |
___ When one repents, they commit themselves to not doing the same act again. That is the meaning of repentance. Period. How will it be looked upon? Well, if you haven't done it again after you've repented, then there is certainly some redemption...in your mind; you've made peace with yourself. You should feel confident in that peace as you meet your god on your own terms. |
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actually the phrase "repent of sin" does not occur in the Bible. the word repent in the KJV is a bad translation of the original Greek "metanoia" meaning to change on'e mind. when people in the Bible are told to "repent", what they are really being told is to change their mind about JESUS.... i.e. to trust that He is who He says He is. our Lord and Saviuor. |
So, if you "change your mind" about Jesus, there is no need to changer your behavior or make recompense to the offended party? |
It was always explained to me as the repentance being purely an internal working of the mind and heart. The outward signs of repentance were the actions you mention, but they are not required. Lack of time, embarassment, human weakness, etc.. could cause the natural signs not to be shown. Only God knows the heart of a man. |
those who trust Jesus as their saviuor will have their hearts changed....by HIM. |
Jam 2: 14 ¶ What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. |
The scriptures say that Jesus died for the sins under the Moses law: Gal: 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Jesus' death was not in vain because the sacrifice of his life paid off the sin debt of the Jewish people and closed the books on the Mosaic Law system of spiritual accounting. After his death sins are no longer covered by sacrifices but by God's mercy. But that does not mean we don't sin or that we're not accountable for our sins. Instead, God (through Christ) makes his GRACE available for us. It is grace that saves us and it is because of Jesus' LIFE and the the choices he made during his life that grace is available for us. That's why he's called the forerunner. By him overcoming sin it made it possible for us to overcome sin. Ro 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. For anyone to say that all the work needed for us to overcome sin in our life was done by Jesus on the cross is to deny about 99 percent of the New Testament. Read the Bible you'll see there are MANY things a believer must do beyond merely believing. We must study. We must gain knowledge. We must forgive others. We must put off evil out of our lives. Salvation is an ACTIVE process (work out your OWN salvation, the scriptures say). It is not a passive work that was accomplished years ago. To suggest such a thing is to discourage people from seeking a closer relationship with God -- and who is that would benefit by such a doctrine? |
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JESUS died for the sins of the world, not just the Jews who had lived up to that time. Romans 1:16 "for i am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of GOD unto salvation for EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES, for the Jew first and also the greek. 1:17 for in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written,"The just shall live by faith". |
Did you read the verses you quoted? Paul says he not ashamed of the GOSPEL of Christ! I'm not either. The Gospel of Christ says that we can live without sin. It says that we can know God. The Gospel of Christ does NOT say that because Jesus died on the cross we are prayed up and packed up and ready to go to heaven . . . |
1 john 1:8 " if we say that we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us. |
i don't know where you were taught, but you need to get a good reference Bible and a concordance and research the Gospel. it is the "Good News' of Jesus' atoning death on the cross for all who would trust in him. to spin it any other way is, as Paul says in Galatians 1:6 a perversion of the Gospel. grace and peace to you brother. |
When I do that should I tear out all the letters of Paul and Peter and James and John and just concentrate on a handful of verses that limit our spiritual duty to "believing on Christ"? And does that belief that we are to have include believing the things Jesus said or do we only have to believe his death and resurrection happened? Inquiring minds want to know . . . |
the epistle and letters that you cite ALL stress that salvation is by Faith alone in Christ alone. let me ask you, do you believe that you can lose your salvation? |
all of the epistles and letters you cite stress salvation by "faith alone in Christ alone". do you believe you can lose your salvation? |
Of course. Heb 6: 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. |
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you are misunderstanding that verse. 1 John 5:13 says "these things i have written to you who BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life. Hebrews 10:12 but this man after He had offered one sacrafice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God. if you think that YOU are keeping yourself saved by how you live and what you do, you are not saved. you are saying that what JESUS did on the cross had no impact on your eternal security, which is, a form of blasphemy. |
I'm not sure you're being intellectually honest with the verses you chose as evidence. Lets revisit 1Jo 5 for a moment. The verse you quoted is preceeded by a qualifier: an instruction of something we must do — we must KEEP the commandments: 1 Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? One of Jesus' commandments is to "go and sin no more." Another is "Be ye perfect." Saying you believe is one thing. Keeping the commandments is where the rubber meets the road. Again, what does it mean to "believe"? Are you prepared to accept Jesus' own definition: Mat 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Whatever you think the bit about serpents and deadly drink means, Jesus is clearly calling on believers to DEMONSTRATE their belief. As for the Hebrews verse, aside from the fact that it doesn't even speak to the topic you were responding to -- whether a person can lose their salvation -- you overlook the fact the same chapter says this: Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. Clearly the writer believed that people could indeed fall away.
Really? . . . . Was Jesus blaspheming when he said "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mat 24:13)? If we don't need to do anything, then why would enduring make any difference? Did the writer of Hebrews blaspheme when he/she wrote: "we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end" (Heb 3:14)? Why do we need to hold onto anything if the work is already done? You propose a simple salvation doctrine. I'm sure someone taught you that and you accepted it. But that message is not in keeping with the scriptures. Read Paul's letters to the churches. These people were struggling to hold on. It's the same kind of struggles that God's people endure today. Salvation ain't easy my friend. The scriptures call it suffering. THey call it warfare. It's compared to childbirth. That is the truth of the gospel. Simplistic prayed up and packed up messages only give people the false sense that there is no battle to be waged. There is no suffering. It's all been done for you. Yes, Jesus' death and resurrection made it POSSIBLE but it's still up to us to see it through. 2 Tim 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. 3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. |
Don't you think it's just a tad presumptious for a newcomer to characterize his words of wisdom as pearls and to call another person swine? It seems especially suspect when the person hasn't demonstrated any real ability to support or defend his position . . . |
I'm screwed. And no, I'm not being flippant or funny in the slightest. 
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Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary Repentance - There are three Greek words used in the New Testament to denote repentance. (1.) The verb metamelomai is used of a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used with reference to the repentance of Judas (Matt. 27:3). (2.) Metanoeo, meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. This verb, with (3) the cognate noun metanoia, is used of true repentance, a change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised. Evangelical repentance consists of (1) a true sense of one's own guilt and sinfulness; (2) an apprehension of God's mercy in Christ; (3) an actual hatred of sin (Ps. 119:128; Job 42:5, 6; 2 Cor. 7:10) and turning from it to God; and (4) a persistent endeavour after a holy life in a walking with God in the way of his commandments. The true penitent is conscious of guilt (Ps. 51:4, 9), of pollution (51:5, 7, 10), and of helplessness (51:11; 109:21, 22). Thus he apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Ps. 51:1; 130:4). |