[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Robbed while hunting (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 7/7/2013 6:27:01 PM EDT
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I like watching youtube videos. I find like a key few of the people on there know their stuff and I can learn from them. Well while watching a vid just now a situation was thrown out there and being someone who hopes to take his son hunting one day it's just something I never thought about and wanted to get your thoughts on....that's right...being robbed while hunting.
Now I don't mean some guys in ski-masks somehow sneak up on you and, at gun point, ask for your wallet, keys and jewelry!! I mean robbery....of your animal. Let's say this is the situation... You're out hunting, you shoot your animal. You track it and it leads to a few other hunters standing around the animal. When you say...."hey, that's my deer guys!"...they say "not any more" and while not putting you in their cross hairs, their muzzles are definitely in your direction and they are implying use of lethal force if you screw with them. In non-shtf times this is very dangerous because now they've basically committed a felony. While the typical prepper reaction may be to tuck tail and avoid conflict, it might not be that simple. Because you can identify them. They may fear prosecution. It's a lot easier to SSS than it is to look over your shoulder for the next few years. A keyboard commando response might be to draw your sidearm and kill them all since they are threatening you with death. Good luck in court if you survive that fight!! During a SHTF, that deer, moose, or bear might have meant surviving the winter for you and your family so even if they let you live they are potentially starving you. Whether alone or with my son I'll admit I don't know what I'd do. Like I said I hadn't considered it. To hazard a guess.... I'd tuck tail and walk backwards until they were out of sight holding my son behind me if he's along and too young for his own sidearm. That way if they actually took aim, I could immediately engage and return fire, hopefully from the cover of a rock or tree. But no matter how you look at the situation and no matter whether it's SHTF/WROL or not...this is a very possible and horrible situation to be in.... ...so what is one to do?? Thanks -Emt1581 |
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I like watching youtube videos. I find like a key few of the people on there know their stuff and I can learn from them. Well while watching a vid just now a situation was thrown out there and being someone who hopes to take his son hunting one day it's just something I never thought about and wanted to get your thoughts on....that's right...being robbed while hunting. Now I don't mean some guys in ski-masks somehow sneak up on you and, at gun point, ask for your wallet, keys and jewelry!! I mean robbery....of your animal. Let's say this is the situation... You're out hunting, you shoot your animal. You track it and it leads to a few other hunters standing around the animal. When you say...."hey, that's my deer guys!"...they say "not any more" and while not putting you in their cross hairs, their muzzles are definitely in your direction and they are implying use of lethal force if you screw with them. In non-shtf times this is very dangerous because now they've basically committed a felony. While the typical prepper reaction may be to tuck tail and avoid conflict, it might not be that simple. Because you can identify them. They may fear prosecution. It's a lot easier to SSS than it is to look over your shoulder for the next few years. A keyboard commando response might be to draw your sidearm and kill them all since they are threatening you with death. Good luck in court if you survive that fight!! During a SHTF, that deer, moose, or bear might have meant surviving the winter for you and your family so even if they let you live they are potentially starving you. Whether alone or with my son I'll admit I don't know what I'd do. Like I said I hadn't considered it. To hazard a guess.... I'd tuck tail and walk backwards until they were out of sight holding my son behind me if he's along and too young for his own sidearm. That way if they actually took aim, I could immediately engage and return fire, hopefully from the cover of a rock or tree. But no matter how you look at the situation and no matter whether it's SHTF/WROL or not...this is a very possible and horrible situation to be in.... ...so what is one to do?? Thanks -Emt1581 It's very simple. You leave the most expedient and survival oriented way you can ---and call the cops or game warden. |
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You use a caliber big enough and make a good shot so the deer doesn't run very far. Some people will say "yeah yeah, deer will still run" but 9 out of 10 times, making heart/lung shots with a 30.06 and CorLokt's, my deer fall within 20yd of where they are hit, half the time, they're down within two steps.
But on a side note, I carry a 4" .357 or a 10mm Glock on my hip every time I'm in the woods. Forgot to mention that I once dropped a buck, within sight of the stand, and about 15min later a hunter came slipping through, looking all around, with no orange. He walked straight up on my deer, probably by luck, looked all around, grabbed the antlers and started turning the head around, checking it out, looked all around again, then he pulled a folding saw out of his backpack. So here is a warm deer, freshly shot, in the middle of tall open hardwoods, and you're about to try to steal the antlers off of it? 
I yelled "HEY!" as loud as I could, once, so he didn't get a fix on me. He bolted up, slung his rifle and snuck off. |
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Stand down WOULD be a good idea...again, AVOID conflict. But go back and read about SSS. What if they seem like they won't let you leave or are going farther than just telling you to get lost...maybe they ARE holding you at gunpoint.
It's a situation that I think 99% of sportsmen don't account for....especially if a younger child is in tow. It may sound like a cut and dry...simple...situation. But it might not be so. If it is, fine, back off, report it, and hunt somewhere else. -Emt1581 |
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You use a caliber big enough and make a good shot so the deer doesn't run very far. Some people will say "yeah yeah, deer will still run" but 9 out of 10 times, making heart/lung shots with a 30.06 and CorLokt's, my deer fall within 20yd of where they are hit, half the time, they're down within two steps. But on a side note, I carry a 4" .357 or a 10mm Glock on my hip every time I'm in the woods. Same here...G20 is my woods gun. I could go with my .357mag or even .460 S&W Mag. but both of those have shitty follow-ups for me where the G20 shines in that area. Good point about a good shot to drop it. But honestly, anything can happen and unless you're making a head shot, which I don't know any hunters that do...there's a good chance it won't drop in place. Thanks -Emt1581 |
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Twi things I'd consider:
1. SSS is not as easy as it sounds. There are implications, even if you are not caught. 2. If they are out in the woods, they are more than likely armed as well. Drawing a sidearm on folks armed with rifles probably won't be in your best interest. I'd back down and vacate the area with utmost stealth and speed. Report it to the law if you feel the need, but there are plenty more deer out there. We dealt with poachers on a fairly regular basis on the farm back in the day...anyone doing that kind of thing, won't give a hoot about your life. |
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What prompts these sorts of threads? 
It could be curiosity. Or perhaps the OP is a member of RMEF and read the article in BUGLE magazine awhile back where a fellow had some strange MFer do just this with a wounded elk. The fact is, it could and has happened. As far as what to do, I ain't saying nothing as I've never been there, and don't "plan" on it. |
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Ok, I don't think this needs to be anywhere near as complex as it is presented. As far as normal times, just give up the deer. It's not worth it to fight over an animal, Hell, even approach the situation lightheartedly with a, "hey, we all know who got the deer, let my kid take a picture for prosperity and the carcass is yours" type of thing. Kid gets a picture, ladrones get the meat, you get away with your lives. Besides, as long as you don't use your tag you can just get another one, and everyone can always use the target practice. Most people have an aversion to offing a kid, and most likely unless you provoke them they wouldn't do anything untoward besides a stern, "this is my deer now."
During SHTF, there's no reason you shouldn't have some sort of overwatch. And realistically, a couple guys with overwatch you should be able to engage and neutralize the threat before they've caught on to the fact that their buddy's head just exploded like a zit. |
| My father grew up fairly poor in the Catskills Mountains, and deer hunting was vital to him. He had a couple guys try to steal a deer from him. He took it back from them at gun point. I think the fact that he was local, and they were from NYC had something to do with his success. |
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Stand down WOULD be a good idea...again, AVOID conflict. But go back and read about SSS. What if they seem like they won't let you leave or are going farther than just telling you to get lost...maybe they ARE holding you at gunpoint. It's a situation that I think 99% of sportsmen don't account for....especially if a younger child is in tow. It may sound like a cut and dry...simple...situation. But it might not be so. If it is, fine, back off, report it, and hunt somewhere else. -Emt1581 Thats why you have someone watching over you!! Does it take two people to get to a kill?Hell no! Why can not one of you watch over the other? Does it make you feel like your crazy? If it does then it's not for you! In combat yep used that word we always had someone who could see as much as they could as you are going into a point area looking at your kill not looking around you the guy outside is looking around your area.Making sure your 6 and other points are safe! See people just out for a hunt taken down tied up because of the deer they shot ! So SHTF do you not think they would not just kill you!! If you can always have someone watch your back! Two is better then one and one is none! |
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Quoted: You use a caliber big enough and make a good shot so the deer doesn't run very far. Some people will say "yeah yeah, deer will still run" but 9 out of 10 times, making heart/lung shots with a 30.06 and CorLokt's, my deer fall within 20yd of where they are hit, half the time, they're down within two steps. But on a side note, I carry a 4" .357 or a 10mm Glock on my hip every time I'm in the woods. i nailed a deer here with a 300wsm . entry in and out right behind the shoulder blade ,,center of chest.(aka perfect broadside with a slight away from me angle)..it still ran 50 yards.... but yeah..they dont go very far at all when nailed just right. sidearm on me as well. and i always watch my six or have someone else there. honestly..if you can track a deer ,,you can track a group of guys dragging out a deer....simple phone call once trucks are found to the wardens or do your best to make sure they walk home..... |
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I personally have never encountered this, but a good Army buddy had this happen to him in his younger days. He was hunting in PA and their deer was shot but moved a short distance and out of sight. My buddy and his brother came around the corner and a few guys were standing over the deer. They had a brief argument over who the deer belonged to, but it was a moot point and they backed down, being outnumbered and not wanting to push the altercation into a physical one with armed idiots. It chaps his ass to this day.
Outside of SHTF, it’s not worth the argument. During SHTF, it could be life or death. Personally, if it was a local, I would at least split the kill if they were reasonable. I don’t think my family would be at risk if we didn’t come home with a kill, but I could see a situation like this escalating to a serious situation for some who were less prepared. Now, what would you do if the shoe was on the other foot? I have too much integrity and if a deer stumbled and dropped at my feet and a couple hunters showed up looking for it, I would congratulate and move on. If you lose your humanity, survival doesn’t mean much in the long run. Of course, I may ask to keep the guts of the deer and use them in fish traps. ROCK6 |
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Hunting can get real serious real fast for some folks.
That Hmong guy who shot those hunters up in Wisconsin |
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well. you cannot be technically robbed of something you never had physical contact with in the first place really. if you shoot a deer, and it leaves your property, and someone else grabs it, especially if someone else shoots it, its difficult on a good day. you can call the game warden to recover a deer that crosses property lines, to recover it, as a lot of people will simply refuse to let you. in a shtf and your starving...... well, that would be a bit different. usually the side with the most firepower gets the goods.
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Quoted:
You use a caliber big enough and make a good shot so the deer doesn't run very far. Some people will say "yeah yeah, deer will still run" but 9 out of 10 times, making heart/lung shots with a 30.06 and CorLokt's, my deer fall within 20yd of where they are hit, half the time, they're down within two steps. But on a side note, I carry a 4" .357 or a 10mm Glock on my hip every time I'm in the woods. Forgot to mention that I once dropped a buck, within sight of the stand, and about 15min later a hunter came slipping through, looking all around, with no orange. He walked straight up on my deer, probably by luck, looked all around, grabbed the antlers and started turning the head around, checking it out, looked all around again, then he pulled a folding saw out of his backpack. So here is a warm deer, freshly shot, in the middle of tall open hardwoods, and you're about to try to steal the antlers off of it?
I yelled "HEY!" as loud as I could, once, so he didn't get a fix on me. He bolted up, slung his rifle and snuck off. Don't you mean " slinked off " . . . . . .the way scum recedes ? |
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In most places the killing shot receives the animal with firearms (first arrow with a bow gets it though, weird I know)
Nothing to stop them from plugging the downed deer and saying it came running by and they finished it. Game warden is on their side, nothing you can do. Just leave quietly and go get another. SHTF times and you are out looking for food. Well, hopefully your hunting party is bigger than theirs and you posses the guts to take back what is yours. My preference, put it in the boiler room and drop the deer where it stands, much easier. |
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Quoted: Why is this so complex? because its like shtf, and we need a super-complex fantasy thread so we can overthink all angles and argue about it. Cause you know in shtf you will only waste time hunting all the time, because you couldn't get your can of seeds to grow because you never planted a garden before, Or that 6 packs of MH you got on special didn't make it past a week. |
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Quoted: In shtf I would think one would use a headshot instead I'd behind the shoulder it would put a animal down right their of you are using an appropriate round no you should use the unltimate survival rifle as established in this very forum, a 22lr suppressed so you can be full-ninja in all endeavors. Quiet no one hears you and then hunt the hunter style. Or better yet a bow and arrow to really flex the shtf man skillz |
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In shtf I would think one would use a headshot instead I'd behind the shoulder it would put a animal down right their of you are using an appropriate round I'll stick with the boiler room. Plus or minus 2-3 inches and you still drop it. I have seen a few deer with their jaws blown off, not a pretty picture, and in SHTF, no meat. |
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Yea, this stuff happens. No less than Elmer Keith talked about it in of his books. I grew up in Montana and until the deer was tagged it was public property. My Grandmother always said she wouldn't fight some one that stole a deer she'd shot and they tagged. She also said she'd shoot that dead deer several exta times to make sure it was dead before she walked away.
It is good to have a plan on what you would like to do before it happens. Are you willing to kill some one over a dead deer even if you're in the "right"? That's not going to work out well in court! How well off will your family be if you get killed? There's lots of deer in the woods, not so many in jail or the graveyard. |
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A keyboard commando response might be to draw your sidearm and kill them all since they are threatening you with death. Good luck in court if you survive that fight!! Resisting a felon with lethal force is completely legal here.
Different reason, same solution. Back in 1982-83 a Navy buddy and I use to go shooting at Kitchen Creek out east of San Diego. It was a stretch of road about five miles long where you could shoot freely out to either side of the road. One day a couple of guys got shot to death by a Latino street gang. The two shooters had a collection of weapons and were the second to last to leave that night. The gang rolled up in their van and a couple engaged them in small talk before the rest opened up on them. They stole all their guns and ammo. Later one was caught with a stolen weapon ... My friend and I would always carry a loaded long gun with us as we changed our targets. There was plenty of rocks and boulders to hide in on the mountain that served as the backstop on either side of the valley. One guy would stay behind to watch the firearms and the other would cycle the targets. We agreed in advance that we would go out in the blaze of glory if someone attempted to rob us and wore pistols in open carry to carry out that plan. I still am very aware of my surroundings when I'm outdoors. In your scenario I would leave one person in cover to provide overwatch - pretty standard SOP. Nothing like a 62 grain bullet sent between the eyes at 2800 feet per second to spoil the robbery. |
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A keyboard commando response might be to draw your sidearm and kill them all since they are threatening you with death. Good luck in court if you survive that fight!! Resisting a felon with lethal force is completely legal here.
Different reason, same solution. Back in 1982-83 a Navy buddy and I use to go shooting at Kitchen Creek out east of San Diego. It was a stretch of road about five miles long where you could shoot freely out to either side of the road. One day a couple of guys got shot to death by a Latino street gang. The two shooters had a collection of weapons and were the second to last to leave that night. The gang rolled up in their van and a couple engaged them in small talk before the rest opened up on them. They stole all their guns and ammo. Later one was caught with a stolen weapon ... My friend and I would always carry a loaded long gun with us as we changed our targets. There was plenty of rocks and boulders to hide in on the mountain that served as the backstop on either side of the valley. One guy would stay behind to watch the firearms and the other would cycle the targets. We agreed in advance that we would go out in the blaze of glory if someone attempted to rob us and wore pistols in open carry to carry out that plan. I still am very aware of my surroundings when I'm outdoors. In your scenario I would leave one person in cover to provide overwatch - pretty standard SOP. Nothing like a 62 grain bullet sent between the eyes at 2800 feet per second to spoil the robbery. Is there some sort of signal you have worked out so that who ever is keeping watch knows that you are basically being robbed and/or threatened with death? And at that point what is the plan?...That between the eyes shot you spoke of? Not patronizing or antagonizing you here. I'm genuinely curious. EDIT: We can resist "forcible felonies" here to with lethal force. But look how well that went for Zimmerman and so many others. That's why I mentioned court in the the original post. But it's the whole judged by 12 (or 6 in some places) or carried by 6 I suppose. Thanks -Emt1581 |
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What prompts these sorts of threads?
One of my HS buddies had his deer taken by force. It happens somewhat frequently. Why shouldn't we be talking about this? Because it is somewhat stereotypical and leaves a bad taste in the mouths of those that feel they either have all bases covered or there are too many hypothetical bases to cover so it's not worth talking about. I just look at the non-constructive replies the same as people that call up opinion polls and say "I don't know"... They made some kind of effort but no one really benefited from it. -Emt1581 |
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seen it happen, man shot a buck and it runs over onto the neighboring farm, neighbor kid claims he killed it and his dad goes ape shit on the true hunter. Warden harassed the hunter for years after that, even though he had the bloody arrow that matched his set.... neighbor kid didn't even shoot the deer, he saw it bed down and die..
in the 80's it seemed like deer season was SHTF week for my family, Dad spent more time watching for thieves and running off poachers, then he did hunting. He had a gun pulled on him once, when he denied hunting to some guys. being in the middle of nowhere emboldens scum bags. edit: kid told me years later what happened, the hunter also became my BIL, so I got both sides. |
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seen it happen, man shot a buck and it runs over onto the neighboring farm, neighbor kid claims he killed it and his dad goes ape shit on the true hunter. Warden harassed the hunter for years after that, even though he had the bloody arrow that matched his set.... neighbor kid didn't even shoot the deer, he saw it bed down and die.. in the 80's it seemed like deer season was SHTF week for my family, Dad spent more time watching for thieves and running off poachers, then he did hunting. He had a gun pulled on him once, when he denied hunting to some guys. being in the middle of nowhere emboldens scum bags. edit: kid told me years later what happened, the hunter also became my BIL, so I got both sides. I don't understand the gun being pulled on your dad...what was the dialoge??... Pukes: Can we hunt on your land? Dad: No. Pukes: Now can we hunt on your land? (while aiming their guns at him) or Dad: Hey this is private property, you can't hunt here! Pukes: Now we can (while aiming their guns at him) Either way it would seem like a clear cut case of trespassing and game wardens or the PD should have a field day with it!! -Emt1581 |
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What prompts these sorts of threads?
One of my HS buddies had his deer taken by force. It happens somewhat frequently. Why shouldn't we be talking about this? If he was threatned with a firearm, at that poiht he should have called the Sheriff's Dept and the CO. |
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A keyboard commando response might be to draw your sidearm and kill them all since they are threatening you with death. Good luck in court if you survive that fight!! Resisting a felon with lethal force is completely legal here.
Different reason, same solution. Back in 1982-83 a Navy buddy and I use to go shooting at Kitchen Creek out east of San Diego. It was a stretch of road about five miles long where you could shoot freely out to either side of the road. One day a couple of guys got shot to death by a Latino street gang. The two shooters had a collection of weapons and were the second to last to leave that night. The gang rolled up in their van and a couple engaged them in small talk before the rest opened up on them. They stole all their guns and ammo. Later one was caught with a stolen weapon ... My friend and I would always carry a loaded long gun with us as we changed our targets. There was plenty of rocks and boulders to hide in on the mountain that served as the backstop on either side of the valley. One guy would stay behind to watch the firearms and the other would cycle the targets. We agreed in advance that we would go out in the blaze of glory if someone attempted to rob us and wore pistols in open carry to carry out that plan. I still am very aware of my surroundings when I'm outdoors. In your scenario I would leave one person in cover to provide overwatch - pretty standard SOP. Nothing like a 62 grain bullet sent between the eyes at 2800 feet per second to spoil the robbery. Along those lines, tell your buddy that SOP when you are approaching strangers or making camp it to get some seperation. If you are bunched-up, it is far easier to control or attack a party. |
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I know a guy who this happened to. His kid shot the deer and when they got to it some other guy said "this is my deer" (this was on public land) The dad (who had just gotten back form nam and was sick of putting up with everyone treating him like crap) Said "No it isn't" while point his gun at the offender. The guy promptly left never to be seen again. The dad told me it was pretty dumb to point his gun at the guy but in that case it worked out for him. I think in SHTF I'd have been afraid of the guy backing down just to shoot me from the tree line. a notable hunting dispute that occurred a few years ago was the Chai Vang case. It wasn't over a deer but what ever happened people died and one when to jail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chai_Vang |
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I have a better scenario for you:
Imaging you are hiking in a designated Wilderness area. You stumble upon a professional poaching operation who are removing the gall bladder from a Bear, essentially you just caught somebody commiting a Federal Felony. You are miles from civilization and are with one friend. You both have a sidearm, the two of them long guns. How do you respond? |
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I have a better scenario for you: Imaging you are hiking in a designated Wilderness area. You stumble upon a professional poaching operation who are removing the gall bladder from a Bear, essentially you just caught somebody commiting a Federal Felony. You are miles from civilization and are with one friend. You both have a sidearm, the two of them long guns. How do you respond? You could feign ignorance and give them a thumbs up "wow that's a nice one!" and head on your way, hoping they don't decide to get rid of witnesses. Or you could draw, take their weapons so they can't shoot you in the back, and leave them. But as soon as you make it obvious that you know what they're doing is illegal, you'd better be able to deal with whatever follows. |
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My deer never run off...
Im just sayin.... --------- Years ago in the Kittitas mountains a friend of mine had your argument. He drew a pistol and diced the deer skull and horns. Ruining it for trophy. - no one was standing near the animal. Flint was an angry Indian. |
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This isn't complex at all. It isn't "your" deer until you hang a tag on it.
The guys may be low life scumbags but you never had posession of the animal. Back out and call the conservation officer. He may not get your deer back but I'll almost guarantee that someone who would tag an animal he didn't shoot is guilty of other hunting violations. |
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Tagging a deer shot by another hunter happens all the time during WI gun deer season on public land, and it isn't always clear who is wrong or right. If the deer runs out of sight, you would have a really hard time showing that it is "your deer" unless there is a blood trail from your stand to the deer, and only one shot was fired. If someone else drops a wounded deer, it is their deer. End of story.
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What prompts these sorts of threads?
An overactive imagination spurred by watching wackos on YouTube? It's been stated multiple times in this thread that this really does happen....so where does the overactive imagination come into play? -Emt1581 |