Posted: 7/22/2006 7:35:07 PM EDT
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My buddy sent me this video today, figured I would share it with ya'll. Don't know if it has been posted before. If this happened around here our local news station would only show camera one and call us a bunch of cowboys and murders'. Camera 2 shows a better shot of what actually happens. s76.photobucket.com/albums/j2/kcoxwell369/?action=view¤t=9582746c.flv s76.photobucket.com/albums/j2/kcoxwell369/?action=view¤t=37f2e6f0.flv |
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I guess I just don't understand it. People really are naive to think that they are immortal and will never need help of any kind. A friggen gun won't help you or your kids out of a burning building. A gun won't help if you get wacked from behind and robbed while you are out cold. A gun won't extract you from a car that you just crunched and pinned yourself into... damn, now I'm ranting and am pissed off! |
Yup...aint like it is in the movies. You don't get blown back. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." So, if you don't move from the round going off, then the person you're shooting won't move much at all either. The reason so many rounds were fired is that we're taught to shoot to stop the threat. Therefore, if it takes 15 shots to stop the threat, then you use 15 shots. Drugs and adrenaline will keep someone coming a lot longer, so you'll need to hit them with many rounds to maximize the woundage. |
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The stats I just looked up (http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf) (p.4 of 18) states that NYPD between the years of 1990 and 2000 had a mean hits in shoot outs of 15%. Thats only a "hit", so this could be in the foot or the arm or even to center mass. I'm no cop basher, I have the highest respect for LEOs and the work that they do. But this aside 15% speaks for its self. Now I'm willing to bet this is at night in the dark, in the rain, while cuffing a perp, or being shot at, or what ever. This being in the heat of the battle type of deal, its not hard to under stand how a shot can not hit the target. Fog of war aside, I know alot of LEOs can shoot very well and so can I, but thats standing flat footed in good light shooting paper thats not shooting back. Taking this all into account its not hard to see how some one that does not look into every thing could come up with a comment like " cops can't shoot " or the like. Even a pistol marksman in the middle of a shoot out will have a large amount of non-hits That article I linked to is a good read, I would advise you to read it, all LEOs and wanna-be LEOs. Invisiblesoul |
| Sorry to start this "drama". it was just a simple question. i was just very taken back that it would take that many shots(counted 7ish) to take down a person especially at that range. i have many friends that are LEOs and have the utmost repesct for all of them as do they for me. |
Ya well your a dumb ass who likes to watch too much tv. Most of my friends (cops) all shoot 100% most of the time on re-quals, by the way oklahoma has to shoot all the back to 50 yards with pistols. Your statment has no truth and your a moron. |
As mentioned, officers in general as a part of their training are taught to fire as many shots as it takes to stop the threat. The percieved threat by the officers in that video was not stopped until he hit the ground. Even at that point the possible threat still existed. Wouldn't be that uncommon for the guy while on the ground to still pose a direct threat and require another or multiple rounds to stop the threat. It might look bad on video to the layman but may be required none the less. No offense taken from me. ;) |
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As far as the police officers and their marksmanship..... I agree that was an assinine comment. I do agree however that there are many officers who could stand to do a little more range time besides their annual quals. I only say this because of the reality and the need for all officers to be as proficient as possible with the one main tool that will can save their life, even though many will not fire their weapon in an actual shooting in their entire career. And we all know some of these officers. There is no doubt that the officers who post here are enthusiasts and probably are very good shooters and probably hang out with the like. Many were probably good shooters and enthusiasts long before they entered into LE. I do agree that static target shooting is not an acceptable form of qualification. Shoot and move and stress induced shooting should be the norm even for qualification. As I am sure most here know, there is a huge difference between target shooting and combat shooting. No doubt percentages drop in an actual shooting situation, therefore only the best possible training that most closely simulates this same physiological stress and enviornment, will help to reduce those odds of missed shots. But miss percentages are a reality. It is the nature of the beast. |
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TheInvisibleSoul is spot on. Police are generally rather pathetic when it comes to hit ratios, myself included. Difference is those tards that love pointing it in an insuling manner out rarely have any life experience or have experienced anyone throwing lead back at them. Those that score "perfect" during annual, monthly and weekly quals should also know that does not mean shit. |
Finally, our best source of info on this checks in. |
I know paper cant shoot back and scoring perfect on requal "dont mean shit" but ill take a perfect requal shooter over a non shooter any day. Which would you guys rather have for back up a 35% shooter or 10-8 100% shooter, think about it. I guess it really does mean shit then right? Just my two cents.  P.S. Im sure some smack tard cop wanna be will figure out a reason to pick the 35% shooter. I cant wait to hear what that might be. Any way you put it skill is better to have when the shit hits the fan. |
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I've seen this video before and still haven't figured it out. WHAT THE HELL WASN"T THAT MORON THINKING?!? All I can figure was it had to be a suicide by cop deal. As far as the caliber and shooting goes my brother got shot at point blank range with a .38 +P and continued to grapple with the robber for a full 3 minutes until others were able to subdue him. He was shot 1/2" below the heart and through his left lung. The bullet collapsed his lung, broke several ribs and lodged its self under his scapula. I'd say those officer's did an incredible job in a situation most people could never fathom dealing with. I just hope and pray that the unfortunate act of having to take another humans life does not take a toll on their soul. God bless those that face fire and do what is needed. This Bud's for you (or Miller Lite in my case)  |
Your point is valid, but I agree to a point. Yes, the perfect score doesn't mean anything when the SHTF, but the training that I and others go through in order to achieve it does count for muscle memory and technique. When the SHTF, all you have is you, your gun, and your training. If you don't train, then you leave to chance what you should not. You place yourself on a level playing field with Joe-Asshole or the ghetto rat who doesn't train either (and usually never holds the gun right.) Those guys, however, always seem to have luck on their side. How many times do you see a ghetto rat crash a stolen car and get out and RUN, when if we were in the same crash, we die. Same for shooting. How many times do they live vs. we die. I train to eliminate the luck with sound technique and tactics. |
Make sure you lift your arms periodically - sitting in an arm chair for very long periods of time may make your arms go numb - kind of like your brain. Back to the topic - thank christ for that second video angle - the guy was obviously making a gun threat the way he would hold it up and posture - shit he may have been so wacked HE may have even thought he had a gun and was pulling the damn trigger. Stay safe AP |
There's a saying out there. Bullets don't work, so keep shooting til you find one that does. I'm sure that they probably didn't get 100% hit rate too. Even the best shooters don't always get 100% on the bad guys all of the time. Guy is moving and officers are moving. Officers have to watch backstop. Stress. Your body is doing weird things with adrenaline etc. It looks really easy from the comfort of the computer chair. Real live up close and personal is a bitch though. I know of a shooting where a guy took a whole mag of S&W .40's from a glock 22 before hitting the floor. Good hits too. There are bangers walking around who have been shot multiple times with large calibers. Then there are guys who get shot with one round from a .22 and are DRT. You just never know. |
I agree highdrag, did you guys ever see the video where the trooper shoots the fat ass shit bird 5 or 6 times close range with a 357. mag? The shit bird got off 1 lucky shot with his p.o.s. 22. after taking those 357. hits to the chest. Guess what? That one lucky shot hit the trooper in the arm then traveled into his heart, shit bird lived the trooper died. Scrote's seem to have luck on thier side at times. I cant understand why. 
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I believe that was Georgia State Trooper Coats (sp). |