[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG Official Statement (Page 5 of 7)
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Quoted: You know, for the overwhelming amount of support here on ARF in favor of something being gravely wrong with the P320, there are several for sale here in the EE for extremely high prices considering the state of the P320. I would of thought "Friends don't let friends buy P320's" or something comical of the sorts.... Seriously though P320s are not just heavily listed within the EE, but for hefty prices too lol. It's just funny how things work... In one ear you're told, "Please don't buy or use a SIG P320, they UD and are dangerous and SIG bad"... But in the other ear it's, " Please buy my bad ass P320 for a pre bad price, I gotta recoup my losses".... Lol. It's so hard to take the Internet serious with these type of shenanigans! “Hefty prices” in the EE? No shit? Not the EE. That never happens with literally everything sold in the EE. |
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Quoted: Personally I thought it was a good statement. It was definitely better than it ends today, lol! Ladies & Gents, This isn't gonna go the way all of you had hoped it would. SIG is going nowhere and nothing may very well happen to them! Oh and they're definitely not bending the knee for any of this nonsense. The ARF Me-Too Echo Chamber continues to spout off, referencing about how SIG fails to substantiate this test and that test, which all display how the P320 is at fault. However if anything definitive had substance, it would have stuck, and lawyers would be drawn to the blood in the water, and SIG would be finished.... But that hasn't been the case! Really makes you wonder doesn't it.. What is really going on? The weird thing with all of the bandwagoning going on is that SIG, even under Ron Cohen has fixed past issues and conducted recalls on guns that have had problems, and fixed them.... So why all of the sudden would they knowingly stop? The Echo Chamber here, at YouTube, pretty much everywhere will have you believe SIG is avoiding taking responsibility. Shit every Influnencer and GunTuber has spent the week issuing retractions to avoid Me Culpas when it comes to the heat rounds being shot at those supporting SIG. It's been the most cowardice week I've ever seen in the gun industry.... Just pathetic. Today at SIGTalk, a fellow user suggested it's SIGs fault Cops don't clean their guns and SIG should've taken that into account when designing the P320 and now they should assume liability for the lack of extra safety due to the lack of responsibility of the end user. You folks realize that's like taking a car back to the dealership and expecting them to honor your Powertrain warranty even though you performed no scheduled maintenance and your car broke down. What some users expect SIG to take responsibility for is astounding. Seems that nothing at this point will satisfy the Me-Too MVMT's thirst for SIG blood, so now we are at the, "If there's smoke, there must be fire", phase of the operation. Frankly I am shocked that screws in trigger mechanisms are producing acceptable testing finds within ARF. We are at the point where neither side recognizes or respects eachothers opinions. You're either with SIG, or you're Anti-SIG. I own too many SIG's and have been to well taken care of by their customer service to switch now. Until credible, reliable, verifiable information that shows a failure comes out, many with P320's aren't budging! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196790/1000017292_jpg-3596943.JPG |
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Quoted: Specifically related to ICE and HSI- that’s gaslighting bullshit. Yes that contract was extended, but that was before they dumped the P320. They’re not using the pistols and are switching to the G47. Likewise, I don’t believe for a second that SIG never heard of incidents within ICE and HSI- I heard through the grapevine they had multiple uncommanded discharges with theirs. There’s no fucking way they didn’t contact SIG for resolution. They probably did contact Sig. Their "resolution" was an envelope full of cash, hell, maybe a breifcase full. |
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Quoted: You know, for the overwhelming amount of support here on ARF in favor of something being gravely wrong with the P320, there are several for sale here in the EE for extremely high prices considering the state of the P320. I would of thought "Friends don't let friends buy P320's" or something comical of the sorts.... Seriously though P320s are not just heavily listed within the EE, but for hefty prices too lol. It's just funny how things work... In one ear you're told, "Please don't buy or use a SIG P320, they UD and are dangerous and SIG bad"... But in the other ear it's, " Please buy my bad ass P320 for a pre bad price, I gotta recoup my losses".... Lol. It's so hard to take the Internet serious with these type of shenanigans! 
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Quoted: Personally I thought it was a good statement. It was definitely better than it ends today, lol! Ladies & Gents, This isn't gonna go the way all of you had hoped it would. SIG is going nowhere and nothing may very well happen to them! Oh and they're definitely not bending the knee for any of this nonsense. The ARF Me-Too Echo Chamber continues to spout off, referencing about how SIG fails to substantiate this test and that test, which all display how the P320 is at fault. However if anything definitive had substance, it would have stuck, and lawyers would be drawn to the blood in the water, and SIG would be finished.... But that hasn't been the case! ?? Really makes you wonder doesn't it.. What is really going on? The weird thing with all of the bandwagoning going on is that SIG, even under Ron Cohen has fixed past issues and conducted recalls on guns that have had problems, and fixed them.... So why all of the sudden would they knowingly stop? The Echo Chamber here, at YouTube, pretty much everywhere will have you believe SIG is avoiding taking responsibility. Shit every Influnencer and GunTuber has spent the week issuing retractions to avoid Me Culpas when it comes to the heat rounds being shot at those supporting SIG. It's been the most cowardice week I've ever seen in the gun industry.... Just pathetic. Today at SIGTalk, a fellow user suggested it's SIGs fault Cops don't clean their guns and SIG should've taken that into account when designing the P320 and now they should assume liability for the lack of extra safety due to the lack of responsibility of the end user. You folks realize that's like taking a car back to the dealership and expecting them to honor your Powertrain warranty even though you performed no scheduled maintenance and your car broke down. What some users expect SIG to take responsibility for is astounding. Seems that nothing at this point will satisfy the Me-Too MVMT's thirst for SIG blood, so now we are at the, "If there's smoke, there must be fire", phase of the operation. Frankly I am shocked that screws in trigger mechanisms are producing acceptable testing finds within ARF. We are at the point where neither side recognizes or respects eachothers opinions. You're either with SIG, or you're Anti-SIG. I own too many SIG's and have been to well taken care of by their customer service to switch now. Until credible, reliable, verifiable information that shows a failure comes out, many with P320's aren't budging! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196790/1000017292_jpg-3596943.JPG Oh look, you're back after being banned from the other thread for personal attacks. I'm sure everyone is looking forward to more of your unintelligible gibberish posts. |
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Quoted: Specifically related to ICE and HSI- that’s gaslighting bullshit. Yes that contract was extended, but that was before they dumped the P320. They’re not using the pistols and are switching to the G47. Likewise, I don’t believe for a second that SIG never heard of incidents within ICE and HSI- I heard through the grapevine they had multiple uncommanded discharges with theirs. There’s no fucking way they didn’t contact SIG for resolution. It's really a lie by omission. As we've seen from publicly available photos, ICE issues the P365 and MPX platforms as well. The leaked memo says nothing about those two firearms. Just the P320. So Sig is being really creative, and skirting the line with being libelous. |
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Quoted: Ok, I will admit I own a Sig, not a 320, but a 229. Does a SIG-Hammerli Trailside bought over 20 years ago count? I have no dog in the fight, but I'm reminded of the Tylenol poisoning event in the 1980s. Even though J&J were completely blameless, they actively owned and addressed the problem in spite of some financial and short-term reputational loss. As a result, they came back stronger. You'd think after the Bud Light mess that companies would see that reputation and perception are important. |
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Quoted: Oh there have been many, many worse campaigns. The Bud Light fiasco will be worse financially I think. Quoted: Quoted: It doesn't make sense. The people surrounding those contracts and the end users they work with are on the internet, too. The "It Ends Today" social media campaign is one of the worst PR moves in the history of American business. How did Sig learn nothing from that? There's a debate to be had here, and that says a lot about how bad Sig is screwing this up. The argument that says Bud PR screwed up worse: -The dollar value is bigger. Bud probably lost more money than Sig is worth. -The PR was the failure itself. The product never changed. They just decided to go woke while somehow failing to understand that 87% of their market was working class dudes with lots of competing options on the shelf. The argument that says Sig PR screwed up worse: -They stand to lose a larger percentage of the company's revenue. -By aggressively lying to our faces, telling us we aren't seeing what we are seeing, and blaming anyone and everyone else, Sig is showing us they have NO INTEGRITY and NO ACCOUNTABILITY. Sig's market isn't hunters like Remington, and their market isn't poors like Taurus. Sig's market is mil, LE, and self defense. People were spending real money to buy Sig's products, and they trusted those products with their lives. They expected those products to save them on the worst day of their lives, and they expected those products NOT to maim/kill them while holstered. With this PR campaign, Sig is showing us they shouldn't be trusted in general, and they especially shouldn't be trusted for something so critical. A lot of people see it this way, and they're actively replacing Sig products they already bought and paid for, even if those products aren't P320s. We'll see how this goes, but the reputational damage being done by these statements is massive. |
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Quoted: did we ever decide if the flux raider with the external safety solves the problem? I have a P320, looking for an excuse to get a flux raider It doesn't. The Raider uses the same FCU, and in the Sig design, the safety only blocks the trigger, not the sear. The sear is left floating and can drop at any time. |
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Quoted: “The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear.” I like how they carefully worded that. Simply taking up the free travel, puts the gun in a condition where it can could fire. First use of a 320 in a movie. It wasn't Vincent's fault after all. He was loading the trigger, but didn't intend for it to fire. Attached File Kharn |
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Quoted: Sig ain’t budging. They can't. If they do ANYTHING to fix it, they're admitting it was a problem. Their lawyers will never allow that, it would be catastrophic. What they can't seem to see is that by denying everything they are being equally as destructive. |
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Quoted: I didn't buy an RXM yesterday because I was unsure if Sig would protest my source selection evaluation criteria necessitating a review by a higher authority or court. I also feared my wife screaming at me upon stakeholder notification of the award as my notification of award to Glock of purchase of two discontinued pistols in May was met with dismay regarding existing solutions in inventory. The materiel solutions fulfilled capability gaps identified in the DOTMILP-F process, but the distinctions were subtle to the uninitiated. The need for meme guns cannot be overcome by additional shitposting or MS Paint, and they met a validated urgent operational need statement with user-supplied funding. I will reevaluate the RXM purchase upon availability of the enabling Flux RXM chassis or promising printable braced grip module prototypes. Stakeholder notification procedures may be revised or reduced. Kharn Quoted: Quoted: Love the part where you're encouraged to call in and report ranges and instructors who ban the P320. So, if I go to a gun store looking to buy a full sized 9mm pistol and I don’t consider the P320 because I’m concerned it might have a safety issue will Sig USA bring legal action against me too? I didn't buy an RXM yesterday because I was unsure if Sig would protest my source selection evaluation criteria necessitating a review by a higher authority or court. I also feared my wife screaming at me upon stakeholder notification of the award as my notification of award to Glock of purchase of two discontinued pistols in May was met with dismay regarding existing solutions in inventory. The materiel solutions fulfilled capability gaps identified in the DOTMILP-F process, but the distinctions were subtle to the uninitiated. The need for meme guns cannot be overcome by additional shitposting or MS Paint, and they met a validated urgent operational need statement with user-supplied funding. I will reevaluate the RXM purchase upon availability of the enabling Flux RXM chassis or promising printable braced grip module prototypes. Stakeholder notification procedures may be revised or reduced. Kharn Attached File I sometimes post the company policy at gun shows: "Wife said no guns today? Take home the barrel and slide today, pick up the frame next week." |
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Quoted: Well it is technically correct. If you move the trigger 1mm to the rear and bump the slide it can fire. That is rearward movement. They didn't say pulled fully to the rear, that is too high of a standard for any handgun /s. This. Still doesn't mean it's inherently a risk free weapon to handle. But then again neither is a 70 series 1911, but I still love that pistol. |
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Quoted: They are done. I’ve never seen such from a firearms manufacturer. You doomers are funny. While I agree the weapon has issues, that does not equate the demise of a company that has multiple domestic and international government and military contracts and expansive global sales, SIG Sauer isn't going away anytime soon. Do you have any idea how many weapons used by government and military had flaws that killed their users? Reminds me of the Martin twin engine bombers. They were called the Widowmakers. Whatever happens, Sig isn't done. |
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Quoted: I didn't buy an RXM yesterday because I was unsure if Sig would protest my source selection evaluation criteria necessitating a review by a higher authority or court. I also feared my wife screaming at me upon stakeholder notification of the award as my notification of award to Glock of purchase of two discontinued pistols in May was met with dismay regarding existing solutions in inventory. The materiel solutions fulfilled capability gaps identified in the DOTMILP-F process, but the distinctions were subtle to the uninitiated. The need for meme guns cannot be overcome by additional shitposting or MS Paint, and they met a validated urgent operational need statement with user-supplied funding. I will reevaluate the RXM purchase upon availability of the enabling Flux RXM chassis or promising printable braced grip module prototypes. Stakeholder notification procedures may be revised or reduced. Kharn Quoted: Quoted: Love the part where you're encouraged to call in and report ranges and instructors who ban the P320. So, if I go to a gun store looking to buy a full sized 9mm pistol and I don’t consider the P320 because I’m concerned it might have a safety issue will Sig USA bring legal action against me too? I didn't buy an RXM yesterday because I was unsure if Sig would protest my source selection evaluation criteria necessitating a review by a higher authority or court. I also feared my wife screaming at me upon stakeholder notification of the award as my notification of award to Glock of purchase of two discontinued pistols in May was met with dismay regarding existing solutions in inventory. The materiel solutions fulfilled capability gaps identified in the DOTMILP-F process, but the distinctions were subtle to the uninitiated. The need for meme guns cannot be overcome by additional shitposting or MS Paint, and they met a validated urgent operational need statement with user-supplied funding. I will reevaluate the RXM purchase upon availability of the enabling Flux RXM chassis or promising printable braced grip module prototypes. Stakeholder notification procedures may be revised or reduced. Kharn You, sir, understand how things work in the real world of DoD acquisition.  You even hit us up with the DOTMLPF PTSD  Just throw in the GAO protest and you'll hit bingo 
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Or...SIG quietly fixes the problems, doesn't say anything and over time as people buy them (because you know they will), when they try to induce malfunctions and they don't, SIG adopts the "see, everybody who F'd up in the past just did something dumb with their gun." Won't help the image of the P320 and they'll reduce manufacture and move on to a new model. In the end, no major funds lost on their part and no admitting there is/was a problem....carry on, nothing to see here. |
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Quoted: You doomers are funny. While I agree the weapon has issues, that does not equate the demise of a company that has multiple domestic and international government and military contracts and expansive global sales, SIG Sauer isn't going away anytime soon. Do you have any idea how many weapons used by government and military had flaws that killed their users? Reminds me of the Martin twin engine bombers. They were called the Widowmakers. Whatever happens, Sig isn't done. They're basically giving away the pistol for their .mil contract. It will really injure them in civilian sales, and future contracts. It might not be next week, or next year. But this situation has done irreparable harm to SIG. |
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Quoted: You know, for the overwhelming amount of support here on ARF in favor of something being gravely wrong with the P320, there are several for sale here in the EE for extremely high prices considering the state of the P320. I would of thought "Friends don't let friends buy P320's" or something comical of the sorts.... Seriously though P320s are not just heavily listed within the EE, but for hefty prices too lol. It's just funny how things work... In one ear you're told, "Please don't buy or use a SIG P320, they UD and are dangerous and SIG bad"... But in the other ear it's, " Please buy my bad ass P320 for a pre bad price, I gotta recoup my losses".... Lol. It's so hard to take the Internet serious with these type of shenanigans! Is it the same person saying “Friends don’t let friends buy P320s” who is also selling their SIG on the EE? Or different people? |
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Quoted: They'd find a way to eff that up too Quoted: Quoted: You know how sig could have taken this negativout off the front pages? Announce the are offering new production sig 552 commandos. people would be lining up to purchase the legacy rifles. They'd find a way to eff that up too 
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Quoted: You doomers are funny. While I agree the weapon has issues, that does not equate the demise of a company that has multiple domestic and international government and military contracts and expansive global sales, SIG Sauer isn't going away anytime soon. Do you have any idea how many weapons used by government and military had flaws that killed their users? Reminds me of the Martin twin engine bombers. They were called the Widowmakers. Whatever happens, Sig isn't done. Quoted: Quoted: They are done. I’ve never seen such from a firearms manufacturer. You doomers are funny. While I agree the weapon has issues, that does not equate the demise of a company that has multiple domestic and international government and military contracts and expansive global sales, SIG Sauer isn't going away anytime soon. Do you have any idea how many weapons used by government and military had flaws that killed their users? Reminds me of the Martin twin engine bombers. They were called the Widowmakers. Whatever happens, Sig isn't done. Nobody knows. We are in new territory here. No firearms manufacturer has ever had the level of liability exposure that Sig has right now. No firearms manufacturer has ever made the PR screw-ups Sig is making right now. |
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Quoted: You, sir, understand how things work in the real world of DoD acquisition. You even hit us up with the DOTMLPF PTSD Just throw in the GAO protest and you'll hit bingo Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Love the part where you're encouraged to call in and report ranges and instructors who ban the P320. So, if I go to a gun store looking to buy a full sized 9mm pistol and I don’t consider the P320 because I’m concerned it might have a safety issue will Sig USA bring legal action against me too? I didn't buy an RXM yesterday because I was unsure if Sig would protest my source selection evaluation criteria necessitating a review by a higher authority or court. I also feared my wife screaming at me upon stakeholder notification of the award as my notification of award to Glock of purchase of two discontinued pistols in May was met with dismay regarding existing solutions in inventory. The materiel solutions fulfilled capability gaps identified in the DOTMILP-F process, but the distinctions were subtle to the uninitiated. The need for meme guns cannot be overcome by additional shitposting or MS Paint, and they met a validated urgent operational need statement with user-supplied funding. I will reevaluate the RXM purchase upon availability of the enabling Flux RXM chassis or promising printable braced grip module prototypes. Stakeholder notification procedures may be revised or reduced. Kharn You, sir, understand how things work in the real world of DoD acquisition. You even hit us up with the DOTMLPF PTSD Just throw in the GAO protest and you'll hit bingo As a non-FAR-based OTA, it cannot be protested through GAO, only the contracting office. Kharn |
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Quoted: Nobody knows. We are in new territory here. No firearms manufacturer has ever had the level of liability exposure that Sig has right now. No firearms manufacturer has ever made the PR screw-ups Sig is making right now. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They are done. I’ve never seen such from a firearms manufacturer. You doomers are funny. While I agree the weapon has issues, that does not equate the demise of a company that has multiple domestic and international government and military contracts and expansive global sales, SIG Sauer isn't going away anytime soon. Do you have any idea how many weapons used by government and military had flaws that killed their users? Reminds me of the Martin twin engine bombers. They were called the Widowmakers. Whatever happens, Sig isn't done. Nobody knows. We are in new territory here. No firearms manufacturer has ever had the level of liability exposure that Sig has right now. No firearms manufacturer has ever made the PR screw-ups Sig is making right now. Eh, Taurus had a far more common shake awake sear and people are STILL sending in guns. Worked with Taurus and a customer yesterday to get his PT111 swapped for a brand new G2C that Taurus will ship to me shortly. Taurus denied/denied until the video of the Brazilian cop shake awaking his service pistol repeatedly went viral. Taurus survived, but their cost per replacement gun is probably on the order of $50 + call tag + shipping new G2C to the FFL. I don't know how much a P365 costs SIG, but with enough Indian MIM parts it can't be costing them that much. |
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I have a P226, P320 and P365 XMacro.
I'm not brand specific as I have guns from many other manufacturers. I conceal carry a G43X daily. But I will not buy a gun from SIG again, until they're under new management. It's not a coincidence that the same asshole CEO that fucked up Kimber has fucked up SIG. And no, it has nothing to do with him being Jewish, just a piece of shit human. |
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Quoted: Eh, Taurus had a far more common shake awake sear and people are STILL sending in guns. Worked with Taurus and a customer yesterday to get his PT111 swapped for a brand new G2C that Taurus will ship to me shortly. Taurus denied/denied until the video of the Brazilian cop shake awaking his service pistol repeatedly went viral. Taurus survived, but their cost per replacement gun is probably on the order of $50 + call tag + shipping new G2C to the FFL. I don't know how much a P365 costs SIG, but with enough Indian MIM parts it can't be costing them that much. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They are done. I’ve never seen such from a firearms manufacturer. You doomers are funny. While I agree the weapon has issues, that does not equate the demise of a company that has multiple domestic and international government and military contracts and expansive global sales, SIG Sauer isn't going away anytime soon. Do you have any idea how many weapons used by government and military had flaws that killed their users? Reminds me of the Martin twin engine bombers. They were called the Widowmakers. Whatever happens, Sig isn't done. Nobody knows. We are in new territory here. No firearms manufacturer has ever had the level of liability exposure that Sig has right now. No firearms manufacturer has ever made the PR screw-ups Sig is making right now. Eh, Taurus had a far more common shake awake sear and people are STILL sending in guns. Worked with Taurus and a customer yesterday to get his PT111 swapped for a brand new G2C that Taurus will ship to me shortly. Taurus denied/denied until the video of the Brazilian cop shake awaking his service pistol repeatedly went viral. Taurus survived, but their cost per replacement gun is probably on the order of $50 + call tag + shipping new G2C to the FFL. I don't know how much a P365 costs SIG, but with enough Indian MIM parts it can't be costing them that much. Taurus didn't have LE/MIL contracts in first world countries, I don't know how many injuries there were, and the scope of their recall was "only" around 1M units. SIG does have those contracts, there's a huge load of lawsuits, and they've produced 3.5M units and counting. The fact that Taurus is still replacing PT111s is not a surprise. Ruger is still converting 3-screw Blackhawks, S&W still has a bounty out on Sigma .380s, and as Ian said, people are still talking about early serial number M1903s from before WWI. Guns aren't perishable, and these things stick around forever. Any way you look at it, this is bigger than anything we've ever seen. |
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Quoted: Taurus didn't have LE/MIL contracts in first world countries, I don't know how many injuries there were, and the scope of their recall was "only" around 1M units. SIG does have those contracts, there's a huge load of lawsuits, and they've produced 3.5M units and counting. The fact that Taurus is still replacing PT111s is not a surprise. Ruger is still converting 3-screw Blackhawks, S&W still has a bounty out on Sigma .380s, and as Ian said, people are still talking about early serial number M1903s from before WWI. Guns aren't perishable, and these things stick around forever. Any way you look at it, this is bigger than anything we've ever seen. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They are done. I’ve never seen such from a firearms manufacturer. You doomers are funny. While I agree the weapon has issues, that does not equate the demise of a company that has multiple domestic and international government and military contracts and expansive global sales, SIG Sauer isn't going away anytime soon. Do you have any idea how many weapons used by government and military had flaws that killed their users? Reminds me of the Martin twin engine bombers. They were called the Widowmakers. Whatever happens, Sig isn't done. Nobody knows. We are in new territory here. No firearms manufacturer has ever had the level of liability exposure that Sig has right now. No firearms manufacturer has ever made the PR screw-ups Sig is making right now. Eh, Taurus had a far more common shake awake sear and people are STILL sending in guns. Worked with Taurus and a customer yesterday to get his PT111 swapped for a brand new G2C that Taurus will ship to me shortly. Taurus denied/denied until the video of the Brazilian cop shake awaking his service pistol repeatedly went viral. Taurus survived, but their cost per replacement gun is probably on the order of $50 + call tag + shipping new G2C to the FFL. I don't know how much a P365 costs SIG, but with enough Indian MIM parts it can't be costing them that much. Taurus didn't have LE/MIL contracts in first world countries, I don't know how many injuries there were, and the scope of their recall was "only" around 1M units. SIG does have those contracts, there's a huge load of lawsuits, and they've produced 3.5M units and counting. The fact that Taurus is still replacing PT111s is not a surprise. Ruger is still converting 3-screw Blackhawks, S&W still has a bounty out on Sigma .380s, and as Ian said, people are still talking about early serial number M1903s from before WWI. Guns aren't perishable, and these things stick around forever. Any way you look at it, this is bigger than anything we've ever seen. I'd bet a P-Mag Sig is working on a next gen 320 that will fix the problem right now as I type. They will roll it out as a feature enhancement and replace all the gen 1 or whatever pistols. Some clients will accept the fix, some will move on to another brand. But you cannot give PFC Duffy a safe-action Glock. He will shoot his pee pee off. Trust me on that, I ran multiple military ranges. The shit I saw on a daily basis. |