[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIGUSA responds. (Page 5 of 8)
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Quoted: Todays p320 uncommanded discharges is yesterdays glock leg. History might not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme. Pepperidge farms remember glock redesigning their striker assembly in the gen 1’s and 2’s, but of course, it was a training issue. Must be why glock had to redesign their striker assembly to be safer. Glock 6 part upgrade GLOCK, INC. Technical Bulletin #920403 is very similar to sigs voluntary upgrade. Eventually this will be forgotten just like Glock leg, and there will be a new handgun that becomes popular and the same demographic from glock leg and p320 ud’s will start blaming the new gun for their incompetence. No one is claiming the glock VUP wasn't necessary, but the vast minority of glock leg incidents were largely from poorly trained cops who thought they could treat it like their old model 10's and stage triggers on the draw. People still use the term today, but the glock is about as mechanically safe as you can make a striker fired handgun |
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Quoted: So was this one of the replacement guns that went off in the holster with the safety on? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/476077/IMG_1500_png-3258700_jpeg-3532863.JPG That was a USMC gun, iirc |
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Quoted: That was a USMC gun, iirc Quoted: Quoted: So was this one of the replacement guns that went off in the holster with the safety on? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/476077/IMG_1500_png-3258700_jpeg-3532863.JPG That was a USMC gun, iirc Were they swapped out like Army guns? |
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Quoted: Todays p320 uncommanded discharges is yesterdays glock leg. History might not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme. Pepperidge farms remember glock redesigning their striker assembly in the gen 1’s and 2’s, but of course, it was a training issue. Must be why glock had to redesign their striker assembly to be safer. Glock 6 part upgrade GLOCK, INC. Technical Bulletin #920403 is very similar to sigs voluntary upgrade. Eventually this will be forgotten just like Glock leg, and there will be a new handgun that becomes popular and the same demographic from glock leg and p320 ud’s will start blaming the new gun for their incompetence. Glocks do not go off without a trigger pull. The part upgrade was a result of bad heat treatment which resulted in full auto guns when the black parts failed 30 years ago. But guess what, you still had to pull the trigger. |
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Quoted: I'm still not convinced it's the 320. Nobody has been able to replicate, or prove otherwise. Lots of supposition. I've watched all the YT's, read all of it. Nobody goes over in detail the holsters. Everybody here cusses the mindless brain dead pieces of shit we see in traffic; who do you think also owns/carries guns? I'm a retired LE/Detective from the Atlanta area, SWAT, Dept Firearms Instructor, and former USAR Small Arms Readiness Group Instructor/Instructor Developer, and former 75th Regiment with a CIB and am currently still on jump status with an active army three star HQ's in NC. I also stay in regular contact with the newly reconstituted USAR Marksmanship Unit at Ft Knox. Again, lots of whoever's have picked over the gun; I have only seen a few holsters picked over, and only one who's admitted in court he screwed up, more or less lied I believe. And yes, Glock Leg is a thing. And yes, all the "free upgrades Glock fielded over the years were fixes to problems and defects, improvements what ever. Flame on, dog pile me, don't care. I'm still watching, the jury is still out with me, but I'm still carrying Sig. I just haven't seen the all convincing evidence yet, I'm waiting with an open mind, but I've seen a lot of bad gun handling in my life, ask any gun counter guy/gal, and I've seen a lot of "500 dollar guns in 10 dollar gunshow holsters". Oh, and I've seen a lot of anti Sig vitriol here, more any other forum discussing the 320, all by folks who themselves do not hold any evidence. Sincerely, 11b4v aka, "watching, but not convinced yet".  Testing two P320's for Uncommanded Discharge: One PASS, one FAIL Maybe there's some fundamental design flaws. But I wouldn't be surprised if it comes down to tolerance issues. |
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Quoted: So was this one of the replacement guns that went off in the holster with the safety on? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/476077/IMG_1500_png-3258700_jpeg-3532863.JPG I wouldn't be surprised if Sig starts saying that it's a primer issue. Something about spontaneous detonation. |
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Quoted: I didn’t realize SIG USA had so many problems. I’ll probably get a German model or a Glock for my next carry pistol. Attached File |
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Quoted: Glocks do not go off without a trigger pull. The part upgrade was a result of bad heat treatment which resulted in full auto guns when the black parts failed 30 years ago. But guess what, you still had to pull the trigger. Quoted: Quoted: Todays p320 uncommanded discharges is yesterdays glock leg. History might not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme. Pepperidge farms remember glock redesigning their striker assembly in the gen 1’s and 2’s, but of course, it was a training issue. Must be why glock had to redesign their striker assembly to be safer. Glock 6 part upgrade GLOCK, INC. Technical Bulletin #920403 is very similar to sigs voluntary upgrade. Eventually this will be forgotten just like Glock leg, and there will be a new handgun that becomes popular and the same demographic from glock leg and p320 ud’s will start blaming the new gun for their incompetence. Glocks do not go off without a trigger pull. The part upgrade was a result of bad heat treatment which resulted in full auto guns when the black parts failed 30 years ago. But guess what, you still had to pull the trigger. “ From the April 1992 issue of Gun Tests: Glock Changes Firing Pins Glock Inc. executives claim there is no basis to the reports that all of the company's pistols are being formally recalled. Nevertheless, they say that, as of last September, they have instituted a running change in the design of the firing pin safety mechanism. All of the pistols that were assembled after the middle of October include the redesigned parts. The reports are apparently based on a pair of unintentional discharges experienced by a Suffolk County, New York, law-enforcement agency. Glock says one of the two pistols may have been altered outside of the factory. We understand, however, the department is steadfastly denying that claim. The second pistol was not examined by Glock.” “Although the Firearms Training Section personnel immediately concluded that the officer had disobeyed Firearms Safety Rule #3 (and Glock Commandment #1: "off-target, off-trigger!"), the man was adamant that all safety procedures had been observed during the loading sequence, and that he was not going to go on duty without his Model 19 having been thoroughly checked. The Section Sergeant authorized an hour's overtime for one of the armorers to stay on station to inspect the Model 19. When the MOS arrived the armorer was so certain that the errant discharge had been "operator error," that when he test-fired the pistol, he didn't even go onto the range, choosing instead to step outside the range HQ building and perform an administrative arming of the Model 19. Reminding the officer of the "keep a straight finger" dictum, the armorer inserted a magazine, and racked the slide. The Glock discharged, sending a 124-grain +P JHP into the ground behind the building.” Sure sounds like they did go off without pulling the trigger as well. |
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Quoted: If you watch the video he says they already replaced the original Army guns. That's why the originals had tan controls and the replacements had black controls. Oh, and they peddled the army's original guns to chumps who bought them because they were "Army surplus." |
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Quoted: “ From the April 1992 issue of Gun Tests: Glock Changes Firing Pins Glock Inc. executives claim there is no basis to the reports that all of the company's pistols are being formally recalled. Nevertheless, they say that, as of last September, they have instituted a running change in the design of the firing pin safety mechanism. All of the pistols that were assembled after the middle of October include the redesigned parts. The reports are apparently based on a pair of unintentional discharges experienced by a Suffolk County, New York, law-enforcement agency. Glock says one of the two pistols may have been altered outside of the factory. We understand, however, the department is steadfastly denying that claim. The second pistol was not examined by Glock.” “Although the Firearms Training Section personnel immediately concluded that the officer had disobeyed Firearms Safety Rule #3 (and Glock Commandment #1: "off-target, off-trigger!"), the man was adamant that all safety procedures had been observed during the loading sequence, and that he was not going to go on duty without his Model 19 having been thoroughly checked. The Section Sergeant authorized an hour's overtime for one of the armorers to stay on station to inspect the Model 19. When the MOS arrived the armorer was so certain that the errant discharge had been "operator error," that when he test-fired the pistol, he didn't even go onto the range, choosing instead to step outside the range HQ building and perform an administrative arming of the Model 19. Reminding the officer of the "keep a straight finger" dictum, the armorer inserted a magazine, and racked the slide. The Glock discharged, sending a 124-grain +P JHP into the ground behind the building.” Sure sounds like they did go off without pulling the trigger as well. Guess what that department carries and issues today? Glock 19 and the SIG P226/228. Glock has never changed the firing pin from Gen 1 to Gen 4. The Gen 5 has a tear dropped shaped firing pin tip. Having a suck firing pin protruding out of the breech face is not common. But Glock has gone one step further and made a change to the Gen 5 guns. Now they have included a rear step to insure the firing pin block gets reset on slide cycle. It's seen with the Gen 5 guns. They did this 2 years ago. Not in 1992. See pic. 
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Quoted: It NDs today  Quoted: Quoted: "It ends today" Narrator: It didn't. It NDs today Attached File |
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Quoted: I've carried mine for a couple of years, have taken a couple of classes with it. Never had a problem. I still went back to carrying my Glock, not long ago. I don't want to find out the hard way. That is great news man. I'm glad to hear this. Hopefully someone can get the 320 fixed. |
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Quoted: They had the gen 1 striker update, what else? The gen 4 9mm's getting shipped with .40 cal recoil springs is a low level QC issue, not a "voluntary upgrade" The 6 part 'upgrade' affected early gen 2 pistols as well. Some E serial Glocks had issues with the rear frame rails breaking off; Glock replaces frames in the affected range preemptively. On the subject of frame rails, Glock has been through three frame rail lengths: early Glocks had short frame rails, which were replaced with long frame rails, which were replaced with medium frame rails. The short frame rail pistols failed the DEA's Frisbee test when the slides came off and released the striker, speculation is that the long frame rail pistols were less reliable, the mid length frame rails found the happy medium. Early Glock 19s had a protrusion NYPD had serious reliability issues when they first adopted the G19; Glock ended up setting up a temporary machine shop in the Bronx to fix their guns. Not sure if you'd count that one since I don't think Glock ever fixed any guns with that issue sold to the public. Also not sure if their reliability issues with gen 3 .40 pistols when a light was mounted count since they never really fixed that. None of this means that Glocks are bad pistols; with enough data you'll find that every pistol design runs into issues now and then. Fortunately those issues don't include going off when dropped or sear movement deactivating the striker block in most designs, including Glocks. |
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Quoted: Glock has never changed the firing pin from Gen 1 to Gen 4. GLOCK, INC. Technical Bulletin #920403 April 1, 1992 Glock, Inc. announces a production change of the firing pin safety system. This new firing pin safety system has been installed in all production Glock pistols since November, 1991. A voluntary upgrade is being offered to maintain the Glock tradition of ensuring that all of our pistoils are up to the latest standards in 21st century Goock technology. |
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Quoted: None of this means that Glocks are bad pistols; with enough data you'll find that every pistol design runs into issues now and then. Attached File SIG just happens to be in the hot seat at the moment. |
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Quoted: The 6 part 'upgrade' affected early gen 2 pistols as well. Some E serial Glocks had issues with the rear frame rails breaking off; Glock replaces frames in the affected range preemptively. On the subject of frame rails, Glock has been through three frame rail lengths: early Glocks had short frame rails, which were replaced with long frame rails, which were replaced with medium frame rails. The short frame rail pistols failed the DEA's Frisbee test when the slides came off and released the striker, speculation is that the long frame rail pistols were less reliable, the mid length frame rails found the happy medium. Early Glock 19s had a protrusion above the breech face; during malfunction clearance the protrusion would sometimes strike a primer and cause a round to detonate outside the barrel; send a pistol with the protrusion in and Glock will machine it off. I speculate that Glock had recognized that their pistols had poor control of cases during extraction and ejection and the protrusion was an attempt to fix it. The issues with poor control of cases really came to prominence in the mid 2010s; the era of trying different ejectors and extractors to make your pistol work. The ultimate fix was of course the breech face cut in Gen 5 pistols. NYPD had serious reliability issues when they first adopted the G19; Glock ended up setting up a temporary machine shop in the Bronx to fix their guns. Not sure if you'd count that one since I don't think Glock ever fixed any guns with that issue sold to the public. Also not sure if their reliability issues with gen 3 .40 pistols when a light was mounted count since they never really fixed that. None of this means that Glocks are bad pistols; with enough data you'll find that every pistol design runs into issues now and then. I wouldn't count the NYPD guns as im pretty sure that was a result of the NY trigger. Rear frame rail breaking, I'd consider that a simple QC issue. Even if glock made pure shit for all 5 generations, and had a million VUP's, it wouldn't matter. Glocks aren't the topic. Glocks aren't going pop in holsters without pulling the trigger. Glock isn't calling me an anti gunner. Glock isn't taking grifting shills to mock people who have serious issues with the safety of the striker fired handgun equivalent of a 1911 with the safety off and the grip safety taped down. |
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Quoted: The 6 part 'upgrade' affected early gen 2 pistols as well. Some E serial Glocks had issues with the rear frame rails breaking off; Glock replaces frames in the affected range preemptively. On the subject of frame rails, Glock has been through three frame rail lengths: early Glocks had short frame rails, which were replaced with long frame rails, which were replaced with medium frame rails. The short frame rail pistols failed the DEA's Frisbee test when the slides came off and released the striker, speculation is that the long frame rail pistols were less reliable, the mid length frame rails found the happy medium. Early Glock 19s had a protrusion above the breech face; during malfunction clearance the protrusion would sometimes strike a primer and cause a round to detonate outside the barrel; send a pistol with the protrusion in and Glock will machine it off. I speculate that Glock had recognized that their pistols had poor control of cases during extraction and ejection and the protrusion was an attempt to fix it. The issues with poor control of cases really came to prominence in the mid 2010s; the era of trying different ejectors and extractors to make your pistol work. The ultimate fix was of course the breech face cut in Gen 5 pistols. NYPD had serious reliability issues when they first adopted the G19; Glock ended up setting up a temporary machine shop in the Bronx to fix their guns. Not sure if you'd count that one since I don't think Glock ever fixed any guns with that issue sold to the public. Also not sure if their reliability issues with gen 3 .40 pistols when a light was mounted count since they never really fixed that. None of this means that Glocks are bad pistols; with enough data you'll find that every pistol design runs into issues now and then. Fortunately those issues don't include going off when dropped or sear movement deactivating the striker block in most designs, including Glocks. Exactly. They fixed all the issues. They did not make excuses or gaslight people. They just fixed the issue. The current gen 5 is the best gun Glock has ever made. |
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Quoted: GLOCK, INC. Technical Bulletin #920403 April 1, 1992 Glock, Inc. announces a production change of the firing pin safety system. This new firing pin safety system has been installed in all production Glock pistols since November, 1991. A voluntary upgrade is being offered to maintain the Glock tradition of ensuring that all of our pistoils are up to the latest standards in 21st century Goock technology. That was the removal of all the black parts with the switch to nickel. Glocks are not firing in holsters. Never have. |
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Quoted: That was the removal of all the black parts with the switch to nickel. Glocks are not firing in holsters. Never have. Except for all the times that people have had foreign objects enter the trigger guard and pull the trigger of a holstered Glock. Which, if we're being honest, are probably what some of the Sig discharges are as well. I think the P320's striker safety failures are a huge problem and that no one should be carrying one, but I think we've got to be honest. |
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Quoted: That was the removal of all the black parts with the switch to nickel. Glocks are not firing in holsters. Never have. Quoted: Quoted: GLOCK, INC. Technical Bulletin #920403 April 1, 1992 Glock, Inc. announces a production change of the firing pin safety system. This new firing pin safety system has been installed in all production Glock pistols since November, 1991. A voluntary upgrade is being offered to maintain the Glock tradition of ensuring that all of our pistoils are up to the latest standards in 21st century Goock technology. That was the removal of all the black parts with the switch to nickel. Glocks are not firing in holsters. Never have. @SpankMonkey Here’s one:  Drawstrings can cause guns many law enforcement agencies use to fire And another (YouTube short so video doesn’t embed): https://m.youtube.com/shorts/ENT2X4TeZIM Care to revise your statement? |
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Quoted: @SpankMonkey Here’s one:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrJMQupYxawAnd another (YouTube short so video doesn’t embed): https://m.youtube.com/shorts/ENT2X4TeZIM Care to revise your statement? Thats actually an ND. There's no way every single instance of 320's UD'ing is the result of drawstrings. Otherwise we'd be hearing about just as many glock or s&w UD's. But we don't. |
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Quoted: Except for all the times that people have had foreign objects enter the trigger guard and pull the trigger of a holstered Glock. Which, if we're being honest, are probably what some of the Sig discharges are as well. I think the P320's striker safety failures are a huge problem and that no one should be carrying one, but I think we've got to be honest. I agree. Its happened to me with a Gen 1 Glock 17. But it was not a holster. I laid the gun down on a laundry basket. There was a heated blanket in the basket with a plug that got in the trigger guard. I went to pick it up and it discharged. 147gr Black Talon into my 5 gallon water coin jug. That was my one and only AD/ND happened in 1993. The 320 has more then just a striker safety issue. It's a fully cocked gun. Its only a matter of time and use/wear or out of spec parts before it fails. It's a bad design. |
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Quoted: @SpankMonkey Here’s one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrJMQupYxawAnd another (YouTube short so video doesn’t embed): https://m.youtube.com/shorts/ENT2X4TeZIM Care to revise your statement? I don't need to revise anything. Quit looking at this with a emotional investment. Look at the design and the current history. It's only going to get worse as these guns get older. They are ticking time bombs. |
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Quoted: Thats actually an ND. There's no way every single instance of 320's UD'ing is the result of drawstrings. Otherwise we'd be hearing about just as many glock or s&w UD's. But we don't. Quoted: Thats actually an ND. There's no way every single instance of 320's UD'ing is the result of drawstrings. Otherwise we'd be hearing about just as many glock or s&w UD's. But we don't. To be fair, unless someone files a lawsuit we usually don't hear about NDs. Since Glocks and M&Ps are generally believed to be mechanically safe, they're not the subject of as many lawsuits and you would therefore expect to hear about fewer NDs even if the rate was the same. I do think it's likely that the P320's holster fire rate is significantly higher and that it's related to mechanical defects. Quoted: I agree. Its happened to me with a Gen 1 Glock 17. But it was not a holster. I laid the gun down on a laundry basket. There was a heated blanket in the basket with a plug that got in the trigger guard. I went to pick it up and it discharged. 147gr Black Talon into my 5 gallon water coin jug. That was my one and only AD/ND happened in 1993. The 320 has more then just a striker safety issue. It's a fully cocked gun. Its only a matter of time and use/wear or out of spec parts before it fails. It's a bad design. Whether I think it's a good idea or not (I don't; DA/SA 4 life) fully cocked striker fired guns are common today. |
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Quoted: To be fair, unless someone files a lawsuit we usually don't hear about NDs. Since Glocks and M&Ps are generally believed to be mechanically safe, they're not the subject of as many lawsuits and you would therefore expect to hear about fewer NDs even if the rate was the same. I do think it's likely that the P320's holster fire rate is significantly higher and that it's related to mechanical defects. Whether I think it's a good idea or not (I don't; DA/SA 4 life) fully cocked striker fired guns are common today. The m&p and glock are also mechanically safer (not simply "believed" safer), have better QC, and like other popular fully tensioned striker guns like the ppq, vp9, canik, actually have fully functioning internal safety mechanisms. Why does everyone else, even sig, refuse to use the p320 design in anything other than the 320? I'm a DA/SA guy too, but the idea of a fully tensioned striker isn't bad. However a poorly designed firearm is bad. |
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Gentlemen, et al, who have access to P320s or M17s/M18s: Please perform the "Punch Test" or the alternate "Trigger Bar Movement" test, and post your results here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Master-P320-index-thread-NO-opinions-allowed-post-links-and-data-only/14-216492/?r=2554650&page=1&anc=2554650#i2554650 |
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Quoted: Thats actually an ND. There's no way every single instance of 320's UD'ing is the result of drawstrings. Otherwise we'd be hearing about just as many glock or s&w UD's. But we don't. Glocks should be discharging in holsters at 7 times the rate of sigs, if not more, because there are that many more glocks made, and they have decades of wear on them. Of course, that didn't happen because Glock, M&P, Walther, Beretta, and poorly made knock offs of those brands are better made and designed than Sigs in the year 2025. |
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Quoted: The only Sig’s worth a shit are their hammer fired DA/SA metal framed pistols. All of their striker fired, polymer pistols are junk. I'd be a bit concerned to buy one made in the current year, given the rate of parts defects we are seeing. All of the 365s with dead triggers due to a spring breaking early and randomly is maybe not as concerning as putting a round into your leg, but not really something I want to get involved in. Is it really that hard to make a spring? The only gun I have really broken many springs in is a Ruger MK IV - the striker return spring. That spring goes at least 10k rounds before breaking, and the gun continues to function after it breaks because it is a coil spring, and they tend to just keep working until you take the gun apart and see your spring in two pieces. The springs that sig employs in critical high volume applications immediately disable the gun on breaking, and apparently there's no interval for preventative maintenance because the quality is below anything the industry has ever seen. |
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Quoted: This number is the most important takeaway from the video. I don't think there were any public reports that put the number that high before this video. There are over 3.5 million guns in the field, and the number of reported incidents is what? 100 or so? And many of these involve guns that were in the field for years, and nothing happened until very specific conditions were met? This is why we don't have a fully reproduced UD yet. If it was easy, or even reasonable, to reproduce a UD, the incident rate would be MUCH higher with that many guns in circulation. But that also doesn't mean nothing is happening. The acceptable rate of UDs isn't .00001%, it's 0%. And nothing in this interview addresses the relationship between the sear and the striker block which we now know to be a repeatable and verifiable problem. Quoted: Quoted: AI Summary: Market Presence and Incidents With over 3.5 million P320s produced, unintentional discharge claims account for only 0.00001% of total units. This number is the most important takeaway from the video. I don't think there were any public reports that put the number that high before this video. There are over 3.5 million guns in the field, and the number of reported incidents is what? 100 or so? And many of these involve guns that were in the field for years, and nothing happened until very specific conditions were met? This is why we don't have a fully reproduced UD yet. If it was easy, or even reasonable, to reproduce a UD, the incident rate would be MUCH higher with that many guns in circulation. But that also doesn't mean nothing is happening. The acceptable rate of UDs isn't .00001%, it's 0%. And nothing in this interview addresses the relationship between the sear and the striker block which we now know to be a repeatable and verifiable problem. The Army alone has way more than 100 incidents. Thousands. The problem is, they go up through the Army chain ultimately ending up with the manufacturer. Who would complain about it to the public? The people they happen to (in the Army) are just glad it doesn't end their career. |
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All this is a Shark Week feeding frenzy with the sharks either stuck in a Groundhogs Day loop or they are the Department of Redundancy Department in each and every thread cross posted. So... is there any other positioning in this other than Fanboyz and Shills? You want to know what is missing??? Cold hard first person witnesses. Not I was on the firing line and it happened and only being present where "it actually happened" but it was fully witnessed (the gun was not touched or finger in the holster or a foreign item caused the ND). So far... the slomo video posted by the "SIG Shill" everyone seems to hate... actually showing the trigger finger in the holster ND, seems to be the one and only evidence in these ARFCOM threads. IF YOU ACTUALLY FULLY WITNESSED 1. a untouched Uncommanded Discharge of a holstered P320 (not caused by foreign object getting in the trigger guard) or 2. a ND caused by the "victim" Put up or shut up... or add something actually constructive!!! |
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Quoted: All this is a Shark Week feeding frenzy with the sharks either stuck in a Groundhogs Day loop or they are the Department of Redundancy Department in each and every thread cross posted. So... is there any other positioning in this other than Fanboyz and Shills? You want to know what is missing??? Cold hard first person witnesses. Not I was on the firing line and it happened and only being present where "it actually happened" but it was fully witnessed (the gun was not touched or finger in the holster or a foreign item caused the ND). So far... the slomo video posted by the "SIG Shill" everyone seems to hate... actually showing the trigger finger in the holster ND, seems to be the one and only evidence in these ARFCOM threads. IF YOU ACTUALLY FULLY WITNESSED 1. a untouched Uncommanded Discharge of a holstered P320 (not caused by foreign object getting in the trigger guard) or 2. a ND caused by the "victim" Put up or shut up... or add something actually constructive!!! Multiple people have come forward on the AHT discharge, and I've seen people discuss witnessing or being the victims of discharges. They weren’t on arf, but not everyone is. I wouldn't be so quick to tell people to shut up and demand specific proof when you're taking up for the guy who was already one of the most despicable shills on the internet even before he dropped that video. Remember when he claimed people who didn't like IMI guns were antisemitic? Him claiming it was cool to wear Col. Rank insignia because he is a Kentucky Colonel? Him pimping Arex guns that he sold? The SVD's? Him saying how great this suppressor heat shield is, but not telling everyone he is involved with the company that makes it? |
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Quoted: All this is a Shark Week feeding frenzy with the sharks either stuck in a Groundhogs Day loop or they are the Department of Redundancy Department in each and every thread cross posted. So... is there any other positioning in this other than Fanboyz and Shills? You want to know what is missing??? Cold hard first person witnesses. Not I was on the firing line and it happened and only being present where "it actually happened" but it was fully witnessed (the gun was not touched or finger in the holster or a foreign item caused the ND). So far... the slomo video posted by the "SIG Shill" everyone seems to hate... actually showing the trigger finger in the holster ND, seems to be the one and only evidence in these ARFCOM threads. IF YOU ACTUALLY FULLY WITNESSED 1. a untouched Uncommanded Discharge of a holstered P320 (not caused by foreign object getting in the trigger guard) or 2. a ND caused by the "victim" Put up or shut up... or add something actually constructive!!! 1. The incident that caused WA state police academy to ban 320s from their range was caught on camera and with an instructor right behind the cadet who confirmed the cadet's finger was not on the trigger and the holster was clear. 2. Achilles Heel Tactical video was also witnessed by multiple individuals who stated the student's gun was holstered with his hands nowhere near the gun. There are plenty of "I WANT PROOF!!! IN 4K VIDEO!!!" Luckily for the shooting community, there are thousands more who know where there's smoke there's fire and will choose a better designed gun. There's no reason not to. These incidents are not happening to S&W, Beretta, FN, HK, Glock, Walther, etc. |
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Quoted: I don't need to revise anything. Quit looking at this with a emotional investment. Look at the design and the current history. It's only going to get worse as these guns get older. They are ticking time bombs. Quoted: Quoted: @SpankMonkey Here’s one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrJMQupYxawAnd another (YouTube short so video doesn’t embed): https://m.youtube.com/shorts/ENT2X4TeZIM Care to revise your statement? I don't need to revise anything. Quit looking at this with a emotional investment. Look at the design and the current history. It's only going to get worse as these guns get older. They are ticking time bombs. And I would say you are looking at it emotionally. Because if you look at it logically, it doesn’t make sense. Mechanical things, especially those as simple as a firearms, don’t just fail once and never again. If there is a “tolerance stacking” or broken part, the failure will be easily replicable. The conditions can be recreated and the same result will occur. Nobody can replicate it without touching the trigger. The drop issue was a real mechanical/design issue. It was replicable for each pistol that would do it and across most (all?) examples. |
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Quoted: I don't need to revise anything. Quit looking at this with a emotional investment. Look at the design and the current history. It's only going to get worse as these guns get older. They are ticking time bombs. I believe Sig's inaction and continued sales of a flawed gun have got them to the point they can't stop the train so to speak. It's to the point that they have probably come to the realization that they will lose their ass if they admit they have a design issue that is causing this and they continued to market and sell the defective product. Mac's interview is very telling in that they still have several pending civil cases and are putting out the propaganda they are in these pieces. I predict this drags out long enough and Sig will lose bigly in the near future. This isn't going away for Sig. At some point senior Sig staff will need to look at if their intentional acts go from the civil realm to the criminal realm. |