Posted: 7/16/2004 5:34:49 AM EDT
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Seattle Student Detained for Photography Assignment Calls to the Homeland Security Department were not immediately returned. SEATTLE (AP) - Ian Spiers had just hours to finish an assignment for his photography class. He was taking shots of a railroad bridge near the Ballard Locks when an officer with a German shepherd approached him, asked him what he was doing and requested some ID. Later, he was questioned and photographed by a Homeland Security agent. It was the second time in less than two months that Spiers had been questioned about taking pictures of a landmark that attracts hundreds of tourists a day, many of whom snap photos of the ships passing between Lake Union and Elliott Bay. A growing number of photographers around the country have been similarly rousted in recent years as they've tried to take pictures of federal buildings and other major public works, said Donald Winslow, editor of the National Press Photographers Association's magazine. "We've seen the constant erosion of our civil liberties amid this cry for homeland security by doing things that have an appearance of making us safe, but in reality it's a sham," Winslow said. "No one showed up at the World Trade Center and took photographs from nine different angles before they flew planes into it." The morning of May 26, Spiers explained he was a photography student at a community college, showed a copy of his assignment, then asked the officer if he was legally obligated to show his ID. The officer said no and walked away. But soon after, several armed officers approached him, including three from the Seattle Police Department and three from the federal Homeland Security Department. "I was trying to be calm, but the truth was I was scared out of my mind," Spiers said. This time, Spiers said, a Seattle police officer told him he had no choice but to show his ID. A Homeland Security agent who flashed his badge told him he had broken a law by taking pictures of a federal facility. "We've never seen such a law," said Doug Honig, a spokesman for the American Civil Liberties Union in Seattle. Spiers said he complied, spent half an hour answering questions and let a Homeland Security agent photograph him - after being told he had no choice. The ACLU has written the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which owns and runs the locks, asking for the agency's assurance that Spiers will not be arrested if he returns there. Corps spokeswoman Patricia Graesser said her agency had no involvement in the incident and questioned an order Spiers said a homeland security agent gave him - that he could not return to the locks with his camera without getting permission in advance. "Everyone - all members of the public - are welcome on the locks property, and photographs are allowed, and there's no need to get prior permission," she said. Seattle police spokesman Sean Whitcomb said the department has a duty to respond to reports of suspicious activity. Calls to the Homeland Security Department were not immediately returned. In an interview with The Associated Press, Spiers kept his distance from the spot where he was questioned, and wore a button on his camera bag that said: "Annoying but harmless photography student. Do not bend." He made it in early April, after two police officers showed up at his door, saying they were responding to a report about a suspicious man taking pictures at the locks. Spiers said he'd like to hear one of the officers who questioned him say if they hassled him because his mocha-colored skin and short black hair made him look like a terrorist. "I'm trying to figure out how not to attract attention," said Spiers, 36. "So far the only thing I can think of is that I can never ever pick up a camera." In early June, about 100 photographers crowded onto New York City subway trains and snapped pictures of each other in protest of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's proposed ban on photography in subways and other public transit. And Brian Fitzgerald, the chief photographer at the Yakima Herald-Republic, said a uniformed security officer tried to prevent him from taking a picture of an immigration office, citing a "law," then calling it a "directive" that gave the officer the right to confiscate any film with pictures of a federal facility. An officer in charge eventually let him take his photos, and he's since been told there's no reason he can't take them. "It's frustrating mostly," Fitzgerald said. "I'm not outraged because I didn't get to the point where I didn't get my photos. It just reminds me again how much disinformation there is, even in these agencies that are supposed to know."  |
This story is minor news here. Funny how it took a month and a have to get in there though.
This is where the retard screwed up in that he refused to supply his ID to this officer. That's when the superior firepower was called in. This student is a walking talking b'logging attention whore now. The talk radio segment about his had the host loudly complaining that while other people were allowed to continue doing exactly what this student had been doing, meaning taking pictures, Ian was the only one the authrities were talking to. I called BS on the host but didn't get on the air when I pointed out that the other people were nto doing exactly as Ian was doing in that they were just snapping photos, not taking pictures and making notes. When you say exactly you damn well had better mean it. BTW- I only live about 3 bars down from the locks where this happened at. Also
HTF does he know that? Eh? |
this reeks of 1930's Germany "Ihr Ausweispapiere bitte!" |
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Ok, so taking pictures of “soft targets” draws the attention of DHS guys these days. This guy has several encounters with them, and he still refuses to explain himself when asked politely WTF he’s doing. Next time: 1) Drug him with scopolamine/LSD 2) Ream his ass out with the “anal probe” 3) Strip him naked 4) Tattoo “I’m a dipshit” on his forehead 5) Dump him in “nowhere” Nevada Next talk show he opens his yap on will be Art Bell. Problem solved. |
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Homeland Security has armed officers that respond with regular cops to calls? i searched their job opening site and the only 0083 police officer/federal protective officer listings I found were for uniformed Secret Service agents in Washington. The only people I've seen with "homeland security" uniforms are those unarmed baggage inspectors at the airports. Has anyone ever seen an armed officer with a "Homeland Security" uniform? LOL edit 3-he claims he was photographing a railroad bridge near some locks www.seattlephotographs.com/eln/ballard_locks.htm when the cop with the dog questions him then leaves but then 3 local and 3 "armed homeland security officers" show up "shortly thereafter" so some bridge in Washington has three armed feds in the vicinity to appear and photogaph this guy? I don't buy it, even the lady from the Army Corps of Engineers sounds mystified but not willing to say the guy is full of shit. #4-  You know I was just in Philadelphia over the 4th of July and saw armed Philly cops, armed Parks Service cops and armed Wackenhut security guards, but no one from "Homeland Security" and they had some guy from Afghanistan receiving an award and were so scared they blocked off about 6 square blocks from the public (on the 4th of July you couldn't go to Independence Hall  ).
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Not here. As a side note though, we consistently get calls at the local Air Base from the MP's of folks snapping pics or otherwise hangin out watching the planes land... Makes for a BIG drain of resources, each time a patrol officer having to go "check it out". What do you do? Ask them not to call? Ignore it? Or "check it out" as best as one can? |
Yes I can read, multiple articles even. What part didn't you understand? Ian refused to give his ID to the first officer so that officer called in some help and they got the chickenhead to cough up his ID. Here's another article about his guy for you, from one of our free weekly liberal toilet paper for the poor rags. www.thestranger.com/2004-07-15/city.html TAKING PICTURES WHILE BROWN Securing the Homeland Against Shutterbugs by Amy Jenniges In late April, Ian Spiers--a 37-year-old photography student at Shoreline Community College--took advantage of a sunny spring day, and headed to the Hiram M. Chittenden Locks, better known as the Ballard Locks. He wanted to get a picture of the old railroad bridge that spans the ship canal. After realizing he'd made an amateur mistake--there was no film in his camera--he headed home, to his Ballard apartment. Not long after he got home, two Seattle police officers knocked on his door to ask him what he'd been up to. Spiers asked if he'd done anything wrong, and the police said no--but they'd received a call that Spiers' picture-snapping behavior seemed "suspicious." The cops asked for his ID, so they could run a background check. Finding nothing, they left Spiers' apartment. "I thought it was a hilarious little misunderstanding," Spiers says. Spiers wasn't laughing when he was stopped again, a few weeks later, during a return visit to the Locks. This time, Seattle police were accompanied by Department of Homeland Security agents, who demanded to see Spiers' ID. Upset over the repeat interrogations, Spiers--who is biracial, and suspects post-9/11 profiling is part of the problem--recently set up a website, www.brownequalsterrorist.com, detailing his story. Spiers' run-ins with the police while taking pictures aren't that uncommon in PATRIOT Act America. In Portland, security guards have questioned people taking pictures of the federal courthouse. Photographers in New York City have banded together to defy a proposed rule against photography in the subway system. In Seattle, professional photographer Alan Abramowitz has been questioned for standing near the federal courthouse to take pictures of the library. And then Spiers was stopped. Spiers wasn't too troubled when the initial pair of officers visited his house: They were just doing their job, he figured. So he didn't think twice about returning to the Ballard Locks on May 26 to shoot a roll of film for his latest photography-class assignment on motion. He set up his tripod on the Magnolia side of the water, hoping to catch a boat or two sailing through. After Spiers snapped a few frames, a security guard walked up and started asking questions. "He wasn't politely asking me questions," Spiers says. "He'd accessorized his ensemble with a 90-pound German shepherd, and was talking at me." Spiers kept his cool and explained why he was taking photos. But Spiers was upset that of all of the people in the park--a homeless guy was sleeping on a bench a few feet away, tourists were strolling through with cameras, and joggers ran along the footpaths--he was being questioned. Spiers assumes he was singled out by the security guard because he's "brown." So when the security guard asked for his ID, Spiers politely declined. "I asked him if I was legally obligated to [show ID], and he said no," Spiers says, remembering his story carefully, recalling the details--it was about noon, and there was a light rain. "I said, 'In that case, I don't think that I'm going to be showing you my ID. I feel like my rights are being infringed on. I know I can be here.'" The guard walked away, Spiers says, and he returned to his assignment. Fifteen minutes later, a Seattle police car pulled up, and a few officers, plus several men in plainclothes, headed toward Spiers. "They were making a beeline right toward me," he says. "The first words out of one officer's mouth: He's asking to see my ID 'right now!'" Spiers handed over his driver's license, trying to explain that he was a photography student, and hadn't done anything wrong. He pulled out a notebook to show he was writing down his camera settings. One of the plainclothes officers stepped forward, whipping out a federal badge from the Department of Homeland Security. The agent, Daniel McNamara, told Spiers he'd broken the law by taking pictures of federal property--the Locks. Spiers protested, pointing out that there were no signs forbidding photography, that tourists all over the park were taking pictures, and that he'd had a conversation just two days earlier with a park ranger who had told him it was fine to take pictures from the Magnolia side of the ship canal. Ignoring Spiers' explanation, McNamara started lecturing Spiers about September 11 and the PATRIOT Act, Spiers says, before finally returning his ID. McNamara told Spiers not to return to the Locks without permission. When contacted by The Stranger, McNamara referred calls to a public information officer, who did not return a call by press time. "It was embarrassing," Spiers says, tearing up as he talks about the encounter. "It was in front of my neighbors. I've lived in Ballard for over 10 years." Giving up on his original assignment, Spiers packed up his camera and headed out of the park. On the way out, he snapped pictures of tourists with their cameras. He turned those photos into a class project, complete with a seven-page account of getting stopped by McNamara. Three weeks ago, the incident still bothering him, he bought the web domain and posted his story--scrapbook-style, with his photos--and the police report from the SPD's earlier visit to his apartment. In the past week, his site has made the rounds of blogs and message boards--that's how Abramowitz's story surfaced, in response to Spiers'. He's getting 10,000 visitors daily, and e-mails are piling up in his inbox (both supportive notes and ones calling him a "big whiner"). He contacted the Washington chapter of the ACLU, and they sent a letter to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers--which manages the Locks--demanding to know whether Spiers "is subject to any type of trespass notice, warning, or admonishment that limits his ability to visit the Locks or take photographs while there." The letter, written by attorney Aaron Caplan, points out that "thousands of pictures are taken every week by visitors at this prominent open-air tourist attraction... the ACLU is not aware of any law or regulation preventing photography at the Locks." Spiers hasn't heard back from authorities at the Locks, so he's staying away for now, and throwing all of his free time into getting his story out. "I haven't come up for air. All I'm doing is putting it out there," he says. and from his home pageEveryones picking on me because I'm not white! WAAAAAAAAAAAAH Humiliated, Angry, Ashamed, Brown. I really wanted to take some pictures of my nephew riding his motorcycle for my motion assignment— maybe one of him making a jump with his dirt bike— but he couldn’t make a break in his soccer schedule to help me out with the shoot. I also thought about photographing a remote control plane or helicopter, which would’ve been really cool, but I don’t know anyone with a remote control anything, so that was out. I’d taken pictures of passing traffic after accidentally locking my keys in my car, but I knew that the whole moving car thing had been played out. It was Wednesday, May 26th, 2004. My motion assignment was due when my evening photography class convened, and I found myself quickly running out of both ideas and time. Realizing that I’d have to settle and just go for the grade, I considered things that were less exciting, but more familiar and accessible. I finally decided to take photos of boats over at the Ballard Locks. Who knows, maybe I’d get lucky and even get a passing train into my composition. I suppose a little background would help. The Hiram M. Chittenden Locks are a bit of a sore subject with me. I’d been over at the Locks earlier in the quarter, back at the beginning of April, taking photos of the picturesque landscape surrounding this prominent local landmark. I’d even left my subject and returned with more film just to try to get the right shot. Being new to photography, I made careful notes of my camera’s settings. Within a half an hour of my returning home I found myself confronted by two uniformed Seattle Police officers, both of which had their hands casually resting on their sidearms. (This is definitely not something you want to see at the door of your home.) I was sincerely surprised and alarmed to learn they were looking for me! They asked if I was taking photos of the train bridge, and I couldn’t help but laugh. I quickly pulled my notebook from my back pocket and explained that I was a new photography student over at Shoreline Community College, and showed them all of my notes — a list of exposures, subjects, f-stops, and shutter speeds. I think I talked to them for about five minutes, setting things straight and giving them all of the background information I could. They clarified that I hadn’t done anything wrong. I thought we were done. “Can I see some ID?” one of the cops asked. I was really confused by this request. I’d already provided all the information I’d felt I’d needed to. If I hadn’t done anything wrong then why did they need to see my ID? I don’t know about you, but I’m not exactly comfortable with policemen detaining me, let alone running background checks on me. To my understanding, even though this kind of stuff isn’t admissible in court, I recognized that each background check is added to some undisclosed police file, and that any officer checking that file would have to interpret it. I really wanted to know at what point I had the right to say “no.” “Well, you don’t have to cooperate,” the cop responded, exaggerating his tone. Yeah, I got his message. Have you ever tried not cooperating with a cop? I gave him my ID, and then sat through another ten minutes of awkward and demeaning questions. I was hoping my neighbors wouldn’t assume that I was a drug dealer. Aggravated and embarrassed, I retaliated by snapping off a few shaky photos of the strategic placement of their police cars when they finally let me go. (I've developed an odd sense of humor. It kicks in when I'm nervous.) This episode kept coming back to me over the following days. I was angry, but more honestly, I felt embarrassed and powerless. I felt violated. For what it was worth, I eventually contacted the Seattle Police Department and obtained an official copy of the police report. And now, back to my more immediate dilemma... Being a Ballard resident, the Ballard Locks seemed like the best available subject for my project. I knew I’d be able to set up my tripod and work under fairly consistent conditions. Having spoken with the park ranger in charge of the facility on Monday, I also knew that I had every legal right to photograph from that location. So, I went to the Ballard Locks, in the rain, found the best location I could, and waited for passing trains and boats. Within about thirty minutes of my setting up my tripod I noticed a lone security officer coming down the hill to ask me a few questions. Well, no… that’s not exactly accurate. He wasn’t politely asking me questions. He’d accessorized his ensemble with a ninety-pound German Shepherd, and was talking at me in authoritative and degrading tones. He wanted me to know that he was an authority. I responded carefully, being as polite and cooperative as I possibly could. I explained my student status and produced a photocopy of my class assignment, and then translated my intentions for my composition into non-technical terms. I presented my camera bag, tripod and camera. I even casually mentioned some of the considerations regarding 50 ISO black and white film, and introduced my brand new yellow filter, all of which was intended to authenticate my student status. I told him everything I thought he needed to know, but I guess that wasn’t enough. “Can I see some ID?” he asked, leaning on me verbally, asking without really asking. OK, I’ll admit it: I’d really had enough at that point. I was tired of confrontations with small people with authority complexes. I was tired of feeling scared. I knew that I’d done absolutely nothing wrong, and that I’d presented clear evidence that I was not a threat. In fact, all things considered, I still think I’d been more than pleasant about the whole thing up until that point. I saw no good reason why I should have to give this canine patrolman my ID. He seemed intelligent, and I assumed that someone in his position was supposed to be reasonable. I also assumed that someone in his position would know that if I’d really wanted to take secret photos of this public landmark that he would never know about it. Sure, I knew why he was asking for my ID, and why he was really asking for my ID. And he knew why. But I was wondering if he had the balls to actually say it to my face. I was back to wondering when I could start saying “no.” Proceeding thoughtfully, I calmly and politely responded to his request for my ID by asking him if I was legally obligated to show it to him. He replied, “No.” I responded, in that case, that I’d felt I’d provided him with all the information he needed regarding who I was and what I was doing, and told him that I felt that my constitutional rights were being infringed upon. Not being legally obliged to do so, I told him that I was not going to be providing him with my ID. That pretty much ended that conversation. As my confronters ascended the hill, I couldn’t resist spinning my camera around and taking a quick shot of them returning to their security vehicle. I then got back to waiting for a train or boat to enter my composition so I could finish my class assignment. Of course, I soon realized that they weren’t leaving. Now, over the next half an hour or so, I noticed a number of suspicious men walking around the path in my general area. It was still raining lightly, but they didn’t seem to be dressed for an outing at the Locks. I noticed them, and I noticed them noticing me. They kept walking by me every once in a while, and I got that feeling I get sometimes when I’m shopping at a mall. These guys weren’t tourists. I then saw a Seattle Police patrol vehicle driving on a nearby path, one that was inaccessible to the public, and parking in the hilltop parking lot. At that point, I knew what was coming. A few minutes later, I watched in dismay as eight men descended from the parking lot, down the hill, making a bee-line for me and my tripod. One of the Seattle policemen, using his strongest, most authoritative voice, gripping his holstered sidearm, was now demanding to see my ID. I asked what this was about and why I had to show him my ID. “Look, we can do this one of two ways. You show me your ID right now! I'm not kidding!” the cop yelled. Let me be the first to admit to my total loss of composure. Eight grown men, five of which were in uniform and wearing sidearms, now surrounded me. I just had a camera, a tripod, and a bad flashback to Rodney King. You bet I was emotional. How composed would you be? I gave the cop my ID, and it was quickly whisked away by one officer to the top of the hill. I went on to express my sense of helplessness, shame, humiliation and anger about the confrontation. I insisted that I was a photography student and that I had done absolutely nothing wrong. I acknowledged my constitutional rights. I pointed to curious bystanders, and pointed out that they had cameras, but that none of the police were interested in them. I identified a man with a canvas and easel, standing directly underneath the train bridge, and asked why no one was asking him for his ID. In retrospect, I realize that I still wanted someone to say it to my face. The police officer had failed to rebut my arguments, but he was definitely being a lot nicer now (which was quite welcome). He’d been explaining how the SPD are required to investigate all calls, which I said I understood, but I was still looking for some real accountability. That’s when one of the three non-uniformed men stepped forward brandishing his badge, and began talking at me with his own rendition of the voice of absolute authority. “I’ve listened to this for over five minutes. Look here. You see this?” Special Agent McNamara said, producing his badge. “This is a federal badge. We’re not with the rest of them. We’re federal agents from Homeland Security...” Good grief. He told me that I’d broken the law by not providing my ID to the original investigator (a man who I personally feel has entirely too much power). I told him that I’d asked if I was legally obligated to produce my ID, and that he’d clearly told me “no,” but it was obvious that that didn't matter to Special Agent McNamara in the slightest. I was just wrong, and he was just right. He went on to tell me that the minute I’d photographed federal property, citing the Ballard Locks, the train bridge, and the Patriot Act, that I’d, again, broken the law. Of course, I asked why there weren’t any signs on that parcel of public property disclosing that photography was forbidden... You know, I just read (and reread) that last paragraph, and I still don’t get it. I mean, you’re joking, right? The Ballard Locks are easily my neighborhood’s most recognizable landmark and its highest point of tourism. Tour buses and tour boats make regularly scheduled visits here, and guided tours escort groups of visitors through this landmark daily. Everyone’s taking pictures of the Locks, the boats, the bridge, and the migrating salmon. In fact, on any given weekend, you really can’t throw fish at the Locks without hitting an amateur photographer. And yet this guy is justifying this invasion of my privacy by telling me that it's illegal for me to take photos? I knew something he didn’t know. I went on to clarify that I’d actually been to the Ballard Locks just two days earlier, where I’d met with the park ranger, specifically requesting permission to take a series of photos. We’d had a genuinely pleasant discussion about photography and the freedom of speech. In the end, he’d clarified that I had permission to take photos, just about any photos I’d like, on the city side of the Locks... which was the side I was currently on. Of course all of this information was immediately discounted as Special Agent McNamara’s dissertation turned towards the logic behind investigating suspicious activity. I continued to ask why the eight of them weren’t “investigating” and harassing any of the curious, non-brown tourists that were now milling about. “There’s a man, right there, with an easel and canvas, standing under the bridge, right now! Why aren’t you asking him for his ID?” “Have you read today’s paper?” Special Agent McNamara asked gruffly. Exasperated, I gave up, saying that I really didn’t want to play those kinds of guessing games. No, I didn’t know what he was talking about. Special Agent McNarmara went on to lecture me in front of his peers and the gathering crowd on the finer points of 9/11 and the social climate that’s ensued. (Thinking back on it, I think he skipped over several significant points regarding the damage to American liberties.) At long last, he punctuated his keynote by referring to some “maniacs” slamming 747’s into skyscrapers, and saying something about how people are concerned about suspicious activity in their country, and how they needed and deserved to feel safe, I couldn’t help myself. I interrupted again, stating that I knew about 9/11, ‘cause it happened in my country, too! After being detained for thirty of the longest minutes of my life, my ID was finally returned and the congregation of men— three Seattle Police officers, three Federal Homeland Security agents, and two security guards for the Ballard Locks (including my original confronter)— slowly disbanded. After a quick thought, I caught up with Special Agent McNamara in the parking lot at the top of the hill and asked for a business card. (“Here he comes,” one of the men announced sarcastically.) Special Agent McNamara gave me his card, and then retrieved a bulky digital camera from his car and asked to take my photo… you know, just to help him out… just for his file. He even instructed me to call him before returning to the Locks to take additional photos. I reiterated that I’d done nothing wrong, and that I did not want him taking my photo. He continued to gently persuade me, and I continued to refuse, and then he made it perfectly clear that I had no choice in the matter. So, I let him take his goddamned photo, and then I returned to my tripod. I tried to act like I even cared about my class project for about ten minutes before giving up and packing up my gear. I felt sick. My head was swimming with all kinds of ugly thoughts regarding what had just happened, and passing by dozens of camera-happy tourists en route to my car really didn’t help to lift my spirits. I knew that this experience was going to be with me for a while. I wished I could find a way to do something about it... and then, like a bolt of lightning, it came to me! On the way back to my car I approached everyone I could that had a camera and was out taking pictures of the Ballard Locks. I simply and quickly explained that I was a photography student with Shoreline Community College, that I was working on a class assignment, and that I’d decided to incorporate photos of tourists taking pictures into my project. I then asked for permission to take their photograph. That was all it took. I got a bunch of friendly smiles and a few odd looks, but not one person that I approached turned me down. They were all very happy to pose for my camera… and they didn’t even ask to see my ID! So, why have I gone to such great lengths to write about all of this? Well, as the saying goes, if I don’t laugh, I’ll cry. In an all too literal sense, it seems like it’s getting harder for me to be comfortable in my own skin, which is about as difficult to admit as it is to convey. I honestly don’t know what to say to family and friends, except that I’m still embarrassed, angry and utterly heartbroken over these events. I’ve lived in Ballard for over ten years now, and I’ve lived in the Seattle area all my life. Now I’ll have to make an effort to going back to feeling safe and free in my own neighborhood. And the worst part is that I can’t stop wondering how long it will be before I have my next altercation with the Seattle Police, or Homeland Security, or something else, simply for looking the way I do and carrying a camera. I’ve been persuaded, detained and interrogated twice, just in my first quarter of photography classes, and in both of those instances I was on public property, in areas well known for their high volumes of tourist traffic. Dear God, I really don’t want to think about what might happen to me without witnesses around, or when I finally get to work on those industrial studies in the photojournalism class. All I can try to do at this moment is raise local awareness about this issue, and look for a way to make a constructive contribution within this bizarre social and political climate. Now, as far as the rest of the technical requirements for my official motion assignment go, both of my motion photos (the boats) were taken with a 35—105mm zoom lens, with my aperture set at f-8, a shutter speed of 4, and a yellow filter. 1/4 sec? That's a pretty poor setting for showing motion on a slow moving boat in the locks not to mention that the exposure doesn't figure. 1/4 sec f8 during the day? Nope that's not even close to being a good exposure, it's way overexposed. A minimum of 2 stops over and that's unlikely he'd need to be in a dark overcast day and with ASA 25 film (Tech Pan in Technidol developer will give him that). I don’t remember what the settings were for any of the accompanying photos. Cheery and bright, dreary and wet, I hope this series of photos ultimately conveys a loss of innocence to the viewer. I hope they make you curious, and I hope they make you chuckle, and I hope they make you uncomfortable. And more than anything else, I sincerely hope this project makes you think. I'm still waiting to hear about the official police documents or to see some of the "gathering crowd" step forward and lend some credibilty to this. I've got the BS flag pressed and ready to raise on this. |
If you frighten the sheep, they bite. People protect themselves. Society will protect itself in much the same manner. This is true in Saskatchewan or Moscow, 1600 or 2004. Most men get past their problem with authority figures shortly after they sprout pubic hair. Your opinion marks you as stunted or a child. |
This is not protection. IF the story is true, this is people overreacting because they are helpless to do anything actually productive. That's really whats going on in this country right now. Nobody knows what to do to protect themselves, so the politicians and SOME LEOs overreact to compensate for their impotence. And the only reason most people "get over" their problem with authority figures is because they roll over and give up. They become concerned with their 401k and what the wifey is making for dinner that night, and it's just easier to do whatever the nice officer says. Your opinion marks you as a lemming. |
That'd be cool because we all know who's really in charge of Homeland Security here in Ballard.  Me! 
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Yeah, a bunch of fat, out of shape, balding computer geeks with callouses on their fingers from typing responses on arfcom all day long. 
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You can't make it through a thread this simple without personal attacks? And you pretend to be more grown up than Norman? BTW, problems with authority START when you sprout pubic hair. And end when you give up and play bitch to whoever tells you to bend over. |
Phil_in_Seattle Joined :: November 2000 Post Number :: 2614 vs. norman74 Joined :: January 2001 Post Number :: 7533 shall I just call you kettle from now on? |