Posted: 11/21/2001 6:43:40 PM EDT
| Aright folks...don't get me wrong here, i'm not necc. asking for a "professional legal opinion" but something along the lines of, "yeah, i'm a cop/lawyer/da/etc and this is what i think". In my present situation i cannot carry a concealed weapon (handgun) legally, but i do carry a gerber 3.5 inch folder around with me; everywhere. I mean, i keep it in the same pocket w/nothing else so i always know where it is if i need it. my question is..."theoretically" when does the threat of bodily harm/injury become great enough for me to pull a knife? I thought i remember hearing somewhere that "one more level" is acceptable? If i'm presented with fists, then my knife is the "next level" and i am justified? I have absolutely no desire to cut or hurt someone, but i want to know whether i would be thrown in jail and charged for pulling a knife on someone who started a fight with me. i am not the fighting kind of guy, that's for sure...i've never faught anyone in my life, but if i was presented with a situation in which i thought i might face bodily harm, and not neccesarily death; am i justified in pulling a knife and potentially killing a man? I've been wondering whether to even ask such a question...but i'd rather ask the question and get flamed then not ask and always wonder. thanks boys...and happy thanksgiving [:)] |
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This is an excellent question. The level is a SUBJECTIVE one. The level a 5'2" 110# woman (victim) has against a 6'4", 240# man (aggressor) is different if the tables were turned. A knife isn't necessarily the next level up , Mace or a baton would be the next level up in a continuum of force, but if you don't have that at your disposal, then the blade it is. But know this, a knife is a deadly weapon, so if you think that your life is in jeopardy, use it. If you think that you can just duke it out and get away, [u]by all means do that[/u]. Lord knows you don't want to kill a person if you don't have to! If you have multiple attackers, than you can use the knife. But the best thing is to use the knife as a deterrent to fighting in the first place. Brandish it and get the hell out of there and only use it if you must. A knife has tremendous deterrent ability so use that to your benefit. If you do use it, expect to go to jail initially and hash out the issues in court. My suggestion is to take a knife fighting course so you know how to effectively use it in the instance you have to and also read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob. The book is mostly about handgun defense but the principles apply to blades as well. Outstanding book! Good luck! |
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I'll second the recommendation for the Ayoob book. I don't agree with many things he says about a choice in a firearm but do like his incite into courtroom tactics. If I understand the principle of self-defense you can only use deadly force when a reasonable person would be in fear for their life. In some states this is expanded to cover families and others - even property in others. Ten 15 year old girls beating you can be deadly - I wouldn't want to be on trial for slashing seven of them to death but you get the point. [chainsawkill] |
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That is, indeed, an excellent question. Let me just add what I think and you can consider it FWIW. You cannot pull a knife in a fist fight, you can defend yourself against serious bodily harm. So, how to tell the difference? If you are just losing the fight and are suffering bodily injury that doesn't mean you are justified. If you become defenseless, like on the ground in a fetal position and you are getting kicked, then things begin to look alot different and a knife becomes a reasonable defense against an assault that could inflict serious harm. Remember, a knife can wound to a degree. That means stabbing, slicing at the assailants hands and arms or feet is different than stabbing at the heart or chest. You've heard of defensive wounds when a victim tries to fend off an attackers' knife and receives cuts about their hands and arms, if you assailant picks up an object and starts to use it on you then it is reasonable that you use your knife to injure his weapon hand in order to stop the attack. These objects could be a bat, a stick, a bottle, or a knife. I hope that's helpful. Everything in this area of law is about what is reasonable. You don't want to be the person who escalates the level of force. You will be judged on your reaction to force, not your superior skill or choice of weapon to end the attack. |
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As a practitioner of Kali (Filipino martial arts, stick, sword and knife) I can tell you carrying a knife and not knowing what to do with it can a) land you in jail or b) have you found dead with a chalk outline drawn around you. In a knife fight odds are you lose. Either you get cut (you lose), your opponent get's cut (you win) or you both get cut (you lose). As with a gun, the only time you should draw it is if you REALLY plan on using it. Drawing it to scare your aggressor can get you killed or arrested. As with a gun, I'd recommend some type of training in it's usage. You can use a knife very effectively to restrain/immobilize without cutting someone. |
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The use of deadly force and the ecalation of force are subjective as someone has already stated. There are no 100% set rules on when you should escalate force. Be aware of your surroundings, stay out of situations that lead to trouble(bars, hanging with knuckleheads, doing someone elses old lady)and for the most part you should fine. That said, I would suggest a martial arts program to instill discipline and teach basic self-defense. |