Posted: 11/3/2010 8:09:05 PM EDT
|
What're the pros and cons of mounting slings at various points on an AR rifle? I'm thinking of getting an MS2, and am toying with the best attachment points to my AR. Obviously, I'm not going to use the sling loop that attaches to the barrel if I can help it––but can't figure out the "pros" and "cons" of things like: QD socket built into my Omega rail near the receiver end of the rail. QD socket spot on my ACS (would still need to get the socket to thread into it) Rail-mounted QD spot elsewhere on my rail (farther towards the muzzle, or not?) Magpul RSA (once again, closer to the muzzle end, or receiver end of the rail?) Screw-on receiver endplate loop thingy (as opposed to a "gunsmith-attachable" option like the ASAP/etc). A2-ish Sling swivel on the bottom tail end of an adj. stock Narrow loop moulded into the front of the "toe" on an ACS Should the attachment points for the two-position options be closer in? Farther apart? Mounted forward of the forward hand, or behind it? To the side of the rail, or to the bottom? Etc. If there's some major informative link that I've just missed, please point me there––but actual hive input is always nice too  |
|
I've tried a lot of slings and sling mounting solutions, even fabricating my own slings and mounts. I've found the most versatile setup for me is a 2 point sling mounted by a QD socket on the rear most portion of the buttstock and the rear most section of rail on the fore end (right next to the receiver.) If I am forced to by the lack of a QD socket on the buttstock, then I'll settle for something near the rear of the receiver.
I've also found I love QD sockets, but I hate that they rotate. In fact, it's not only useless that they rotate, but it's an incredible pain in the ass because the slings will always twist and tangle, where when I use HK type snaps or simple loops, it's never an issue. For example, the FAL has a folder, so buttstock mounting is out. I can live with where it is fine, but would prefer the rear mount to be at the arrow. I'd like to get one of the non-rotating sockets, as this sling twists constantly when going on-off. 
I've driven myself crazy trying to roll my own and it's just not worth it with choices like the VTAC and Blue Force slings, personally. |
|
Quoted: This is incredibly helpful information. If I may be so bold, why is the most versatile setup the rear of the rail and buttstock (or rear of receiver if buttstock is not available)?I've tried a lot of slings and sling mounting solutions, even fabricating my own slings and mounts. I've found the most versatile setup for me is a 2 point sling mounted by a QD socket on the rear most portion of the buttstock and the rear most section of rail on the fore end (right next to the receiver.) If I am forced to by the lack of a QD socket on the buttstock, then I'll settle for something near the rear of the receiver. I've also found I love QD sockets, but I hate that they rotate. In fact, it's not only useless that they rotate, but it's an incredible pain in the ass because the slings will always twist and tangle, where when I use HK type snaps or simple loops, it's never an issue. For example, the FAL has a folder, so buttstock mounting is out. I can live with where it is fine, but would prefer the rear mount to be at the arrow. I'd like to get one of the non-rotating sockets, as this sling twists constantly when going on-off. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/fal1-1.jpg I've driven myself crazy trying to roll my own and it's just not worth it with choices like the VTAC and Blue Force slings, personally. ETA: Epic FAL.  |
|
Quoted:
I've tried a lot of slings and sling mounting solutions, even fabricating my own slings and mounts. I've found the most versatile setup for me is a 2 point sling mounted by a QD socket on the rear most portion of the buttstock and the rear most section of rail on the fore end (right next to the receiver.) If I am forced to by the lack of a QD socket on the buttstock, then I'll settle for something near the rear of the receiver. I've also found I love QD sockets, but I hate that they rotate. In fact, it's not only useless that they rotate, but it's an incredible pain in the ass because the slings will always twist and tangle, where when I use HK type snaps or simple loops, it's never an issue. For example, the FAL has a folder, so buttstock mounting is out. I can live with where it is fine, but would prefer the rear mount to be at the arrow. I'd like to get one of the non-rotating sockets, as this sling twists constantly when going on-off. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/fal1-1.jpg I've driven myself crazy trying to roll my own and it's just not worth it with choices like the VTAC and Blue Force slings, personally. I have a DD QD attachment on my rail and it only allows the QD to rotate 1/2 turn. Not all the way around. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: I've tried a lot of slings and sling mounting solutions, even fabricating my own slings and mounts. I've found the most versatile setup for me is a 2 point sling mounted by a QD socket on the rear most portion of the buttstock and the rear most section of rail on the fore end (right next to the receiver.) If I am forced to by the lack of a QD socket on the buttstock, then I'll settle for something near the rear of the receiver. I've also found I love QD sockets, but I hate that they rotate. In fact, it's not only useless that they rotate, but it's an incredible pain in the ass because the slings will always twist and tangle, where when I use HK type snaps or simple loops, it's never an issue. For example, the FAL has a folder, so buttstock mounting is out. I can live with where it is fine, but would prefer the rear mount to be at the arrow. I'd like to get one of the non-rotating sockets, as this sling twists constantly when going on-off. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/fal1-1.jpg I've driven myself crazy trying to roll my own and it's just not worth it with choices like the VTAC and Blue Force slings, personally. I have a DD QD attachment on my rail and it only allows the QD to rotate 1/2 turn. Not all the way around. Is that built into the rail, or into the QD thingy itself? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've tried a lot of slings and sling mounting solutions, even fabricating my own slings and mounts. I've found the most versatile setup for me is a 2 point sling mounted by a QD socket on the rear most portion of the buttstock and the rear most section of rail on the fore end (right next to the receiver.) If I am forced to by the lack of a QD socket on the buttstock, then I'll settle for something near the rear of the receiver. I've also found I love QD sockets, but I hate that they rotate. In fact, it's not only useless that they rotate, but it's an incredible pain in the ass because the slings will always twist and tangle, where when I use HK type snaps or simple loops, it's never an issue. For example, the FAL has a folder, so buttstock mounting is out. I can live with where it is fine, but would prefer the rear mount to be at the arrow. I'd like to get one of the non-rotating sockets, as this sling twists constantly when going on-off. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/fal1-1.jpg I've driven myself crazy trying to roll my own and it's just not worth it with choices like the VTAC and Blue Force slings, personally. I have a DD QD attachment on my rail and it only allows the QD to rotate 1/2 turn. Not all the way around. Is that built into the rail, or into the QD thingy itself? It's a separate piece. http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/browse&category=slingmounts_railattachedslingmounts You can find them cheaper from other vendors vice directly from DD. I use a GG&G rear sling thing QD attachment on my LMT stock for the rear attachment. The newer LMT stocks have the QD attachment built in. Edit: VTAC/Larue 2 point sling FTW. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is incredibly helpful information. If I may be so bold, why is the most versatile setup the rear of the rail and buttstock (or rear of receiver if buttstock is not available)?
I've tried a lot of slings and sling mounting solutions, even fabricating my own slings and mounts. I've found the most versatile setup for me is a 2 point sling mounted by a QD socket on the rear most portion of the buttstock and the rear most section of rail on the fore end (right next to the receiver.) If I am forced to by the lack of a QD socket on the buttstock, then I'll settle for something near the rear of the receiver. I've also found I love QD sockets, but I hate that they rotate. In fact, it's not only useless that they rotate, but it's an incredible pain in the ass because the slings will always twist and tangle, where when I use HK type snaps or simple loops, it's never an issue. For example, the FAL has a folder, so buttstock mounting is out. I can live with where it is fine, but would prefer the rear mount to be at the arrow. I'd like to get one of the non-rotating sockets, as this sling twists constantly when going on-off. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/fal1-1.jpg I've driven myself crazy trying to roll my own and it's just not worth it with choices like the VTAC and Blue Force slings, personally. ETA: Epic FAL.
What I find is that when the sling is attached to the rear most portion of the buttstock, no matter the length of the weapon, the length of pull, etc, I can bring it up to my shoulder easily without the sling interfering. I like combining this with the rear most portion of the rail or fore end because I don't mount any accessories there. No grips, lights, lasers. All that stuff is generally out front. Moving the sling out there causes interference with their operation or with the slings operation. Rear of receiver works almost as well as rear of buttstock, with the exception that if the sling isn't exactly adjusted to the length you need, when you bring it up to shoulder it may be too short to get the butt of the rifle into your shoulder. You're trapped by the sling. It's also in the way of your cheek weld, because if you think about it, it's going from the rear of the receiver, past your face then around your neck and shoulder. It's more controllable when hanging, more interference when shooting/shouldering. |
|
I have no issues with my VTAC/Larue 2 point mounted to my LMT stock. I can even transition weak side with it.
I have the QD rail mount almost all the way back too. I put it a little bit forward as I'm lefty and don't want the sling over the ejection port at all. It can cause malfunctions. |
|
IMO, it depends what you want it to "do". A single point is great for CQB stuff where you've pretty much always got your rifle in your hands unless you're opening a door or transitioning to a pistol or what have you, but it's only temporary. If you're going to be humping for any distance or climbing obstacles a 2 point is better. Try it sometime. See how easy it is to climb a chain link fence with a single point VS. being able to sling a 2 point across your back. I was recently "exposed" to the MS2, and I really liked it. You can go 2-point to single point and back in just a few seconds.
Just remember, when you get something you give something. It's a balancing act. You have to decide what you're going to be using it for and which is better for that task. |
|
Quoted: IMO, it depends what you want it to "do". A single point is great for CQB stuff where you've pretty much always got your rifle in your hands unless you're opening a door or transitioning to a pistol or what have you, but it's only temporary. If you're going to be humping for any distance or climbing obstacles a 2 point is better. Try it sometime. See how easy it is to climb a chain link fence with a single point VS. being able to sling a 2 point across your back. I was recently "exposed" to the MS2, and I really liked it. You can go 2-point to single point and back in just a few seconds. Just remember, when you get something you give something. It's a balancing act. You have to decide what you're going to be using it for and which is better for that task. That's why I was planning on going for the MS2, as it seems to offer major benefits of "both worlds"; the 2-point M1907 sling on my Garand is wonderful for humping the thing around, but less than quick for transition shooting, and I tried my buddy's one point out enough that it seems pretty dang slick for when you're shooting but would suck for humping around the rifle. But there seem to be two different schools of thought on the "best" attachment points for two point vs. single points, and I'm having a heckuva time trying to figure it all out in order to get the "right" setup––and that's where ARFCOM comes in |
|
Quoted:
But there seem to be two different schools of thought on the "best" attachment points for two point vs. single points, and I'm having a heckuva time trying to figure it all out in order to get the "right" setup––and that's where ARFCOM comes in
I get it. For me, I like the rear of the sling attached with a sling plate, just behind the hand grip. The forward attachment should be far forward. I use the "stock" sling attachment point. If you have one attached at the rear of the receiver and one at the front of the receiver, it would seem to restrict your mobility. I've never tried it that way though, so I could be wrong. I just like the forward attachment point to be forward of where I keep my support hand. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: But there seem to be two different schools of thought on the "best" attachment points for two point vs. single points, and I'm having a heckuva time trying to figure it all out in order to get the "right" setup––and that's where ARFCOM comes in I get it. For me, I like the rear of the sling attached with a sling plate, just behind the hand grip. The forward attachment should be far forward. I use the "stock" sling attachment point. If you have one attached at the rear of the receiver and one at the front of the receiver, it would seem to restrict your mobility. I've never tried it that way though, so I could be wrong. I just like the forward attachment point to be forward of where I keep my support hand. You use the sling loop attached to your gas block? Wouldn't that impact your accuracy if you used a hasty "wraparound" support with the sling in the two-point position? |
|
Quoted:
You use the sling loop attached to your gas block? Wouldn't that impact your accuracy if you used a hasty "wraparound" support with the sling in the two-point position? Don't know enough to say one way or the other. I doubt it would effect my accuracy to the point it wouldn't be "combat effective". If I'm in a position where I have to do anything hastily, I'm not worried about shooting MOA when 2 or 3 will do. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You use the sling loop attached to your gas block? Wouldn't that impact your accuracy if you used a hasty "wraparound" support with the sling in the two-point position? Don't know enough to say one way or the other. I doubt it would effect my accuracy to the point it wouldn't be "combat effective". If I'm in a position where I have to do anything hastily, I'm not worried about shooting MOA when 2 or 3 will do. You'd be surprised. There's a reason that no DCM competitors use any barrel mounted slings. The FAL rifles with their notoriously thin barrels can shift 6 MOA when using the barrel attached sling as a hasty sling. Nothing beats bottom mounted swivels on something that doesn't influence the barrel for this application. Side mounted slings leave a lot to be desired when using as a hasty sling. OP, my suggestion is to buy something like the Magpul that can be used either as 2 point or 1 point and move it around until you like it as a compromise for what you want it to do. Watch the EE for swivel sockets or other attachments points, and you can experiment for relatively cheap, and resell what you don't like or want. |
|
Quoted:
You'd be surprised. There's a reason that no DCM competitors use any barrel mounted slings. The FAL rifles with their notoriously thin barrels can shift 6 MOA when using the barrel attached sling as a hasty sling. Nothing beats bottom mounted swivels on something that doesn't influence the barrel for this application. Side mounted slings leave a lot to be desired when using as a hasty sling. I'll have to try it both ways sometime, I'm currently set up on a single point, but I'll throw a 2-point on there and see if it changes anything. |