[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Stem Cell Research - Poll Fixed (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/9/2009 9:22:30 AM EDT
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Let's try it again. My apologies for the previous poll.
What say you ARFCOM? The following is quoted directly from Wikipedia. Embryonic Embryonic stem cell lines (ES cell lines) are cultures of cells derived from the epiblast tissue of the inner cell mass (ICM) of a blastocyst or earlier morula stage embryos.  A blastocyst is an early stage embryo—approximately four to five days old in humans and consisting of 50–150 cells. ES cells are pluripotent and give rise during development to all derivatives of the three primary germ layers: ectoderm, endoderm and mesoderm. In other words, they can develop into each of the more than 200 cell types of the adult body when given sufficient and necessary stimulation for a specific cell type. They do not contribute to the extra-embryonic membranes or the placenta.
Nearly all research to date has taken place using mouse embryonic stem cells (mES) or human embryonic stem cells (hES). Both have the essential stem cell characteristics, yet they require very different environments in order to maintain an undifferentiated state. Mouse ES cells are grown on a layer of gelatin and require the presence of Leukemia Inhibitory Factor (LIF).[9] Human ES cells are grown on a feeder layer of mouse embryonic fibroblasts (MEFs) and require the presence of basic Fibroblast Growth Factor (bFGF or FGF-2).[10] Without optimal culture conditions or genetic manipulation,[11] embryonic stem cells will rapidly differentiate. A human embryonic stem cell is also defined by the presence of several transcription factors and cell surface proteins. The transcription factors Oct-4, Nanog, and SOX2 form the core regulatory network that ensures the suppression of genes that lead to differentiation and the maintenance of pluripotency.[12] The cell surface antigens most commonly used to identify hES cells are the glycolipids SSEA3 and SSEA4 and the keratan sulfate antigens Tra-1-60 and Tra-1-81. The molecular definition of a stem cell includes many more proteins and continues to be a topic of research.[13] After nearly ten years of research[14], there are no approved treatments or human trials using embryonic stem cells. ES cells, being pluripotent cells, require specific signals for correct differentiation - if injected directly into another body, ES cells will differentiate into many different types of cells, causing a teratoma. Differentiating ES cells into usable cells while avoiding transplant rejection are just a few of the hurdles that embryonic stem cell researchers still face.[15] Many nations currently have moratoria on either ES cell research or the production of new ES cell lines. Because of their combined abilities of unlimited expansion and pluripotency, embryonic stem cells remain a theoretically potential source for regenerative medicine and tissue replacement after injury or disease. Fetal Fetal stem cells are primitive cell types found in the organs of fetuses [16]. The classification of fetal stem cells remains unclear and this type of stem cell is currently often grouped into an adult stem cell. However, a more clear distinction between the two cell types appears necessary. Adult Stem cell division and differentiation. A - stem cell; B - progenitor cell; C - differentiated cell; 1 - symmetric stem cell division; 2 - asymmetric stem cell division; 3 - progenitor division; 4 - terminal differentiation The term adult stem cell refers to any cell which is found in a developed organism that has two properties: the ability to divide and create another cell like itself and also divide and create a cell more differentiated than itself. Also known as somatic (from Greek Σωματικóς, "of the body") stem cells and germline (giving rise to gametes) stem cells, they can be found in children, as well as adults.[17] Pluripotent adult stem cells are rare and generally small in number but can be found in a number of tissues including umbilical cord blood.[18] A great deal of adult stem cell research has focused on clarifying their capacity to divide or self-renew indefinitely and their differentiation potential.[19] In mice, pluripotent stem cells are directly generated from adult fibroblast cultures. Unfortunately, many mice don't live long with stem cell organs.[20] Most adult stem cells are lineage-restricted (multipotent) and are generally referred to by their tissue origin (mesenchymal stem cell, adipose-derived stem cell, endothelial stem cell, etc.).[21][22] Adult stem cell treatments have been successfully used for many years to treat leukemia and related bone/blood cancers through bone marrow transplants.[23] Adult stem cells are also used in veterinary medicine to treat tendon and ligament injuries in horses.[24] The use of adult stem cells in research and therapy is not as controversial as embryonic stem cells, because the production of adult stem cells does not require the destruction of an embryo. Additionally, because in some instances adult stem cells can be obtained from the intended recipient, (an autograft) the risk of rejection is essentially non-existent in these situations. Consequently, more US government funding is being provided for adult stem cell research.[25] |
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Prove it on lower primates before committing to wasting human embryonic stem cells. The liberal thought is such research will instantly have clinical benefits. In reality, the ONLY researchers benefitting were PURE RESEARCH. NOT CLINICAL. Keith- You're a smart guy; I'm sure you know how to search Medline. There is a murine model (in vitro and in vivo studies) which has given a large amount of data. In the last thread, you were screaming that bench research needed to come before clinical experimentation. This is obviously true. Why then are you saying that since no clinical studies have been done with embryonic cells, it's faulty science? Also- I hope you realize that no one is pushing for in vivo human studies with embryonic cells... |
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I doubt you have educated yourself in the past 5 minutes. I wouldn't worry about that if I were you. Just vote, write your opinion. Argue it if you wish... them move along. Thanks. Stem cell research has NOT been impacted in any significant manner from the President Bush limitation on embryonic stem cell research funded with federal funds. There was NEVER any limitation on ANY stem cell research as long as it was not federally funded EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS. Adult? Fine. Umbillical cord blood? Fine. When President Bush PROVIDED FEDERAL FUNDING FOR EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH, he did so with the limitation that only a few FEDERALLY PROVIDED STEM CELL LINES would be acceptable. You are as well versed on stem cells as Rep C. McCarthy is on firearms. You know, "that shoulder thing that goes up". and barrel shrouds. |
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Anything and everything, should be pouring billions of dollars into it. Yep. If we don't, we're quickly going to fall behind those who will. Opposing this research is analogous to opposing the "weaponization" of space. Why? We already lead the world in such research. We don't need any federal funding of research because all federally funded projects are historically the LEAST EFFICIENT. Human genome? The federal side cost much more and took longer. |
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I doubt you have educated yourself in the past 5 minutes. I wouldn't worry about that if I were you. Just vote, write your opinion. Argue it if you wish... them move along. Thanks. Stem cell research has NOT been impacted in any significant manner from the President Bush limitation on embryonic stem cell research funded with federal funds. There was NEVER any limitation on ANY stem cell research as long as it was not federally funded EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS. Adult? Fine. Umbillical cord blood? Fine. When President Bush PROVIDED FEDERAL FUNDING FOR EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH, he did so with the limitation that only a few FEDERALLY PROVIDED STEM CELL LINES would be acceptable. You are as well versed on stem cells as Rep C. McCarthy is on firearms. You know, "that shoulder thing that goes up". and barrel shrouds. Keith, I never claimed to be an expert. This is GD. I just wanted to know the mass opinion by ARFCOM. I voted no opinion, because I have not done enough research to vote properly. I have no beef with you. Move along. |
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If there were advances to have been made, I think we would have seen them by now. We aren't the only country working on this. The entire stem cell research deal is about money and making abortion more acceptable (which is also about money). This field attracts snake oil salesmen parading as scientists. There was that Korean "scientist" who was proven to be a huckster. He died, probably from BS intoxication. Likewise, there are a few "doctors" injecting patients with "stem cells"...the only reason the FDA doesn't shut them down is they operate in foreign countries, outside of the reach. Now for the FACTS. The ONLY clinical treatments using stem cells are using patient sourced stem cells. Adult or umbillical cord derived. Embryonic stem cell research WAS ALWAYS COMPLETELY LEGAL. There was NO FEDERAL FUNDING using EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS before President George W. Bush signed the bill into law. This bill limited cell lines to the existing federal lines. Stem cell lines are immortal, they are constantly reproducing. Some reasearchers are concerned with genetic mutation although proper culturing prevents contamination. |
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Embryonic stem cells have been an absolute failure. All clinical stem cell treatments are from patient-derived stem cells. There was no ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, only a limitation of cell lines used in such research. Your poll is poorly worded because you have no working knowledge of the subject. Those lines allowed to be used were contaminated in many cases, and generally in horrible shape. The cures which are currently in clinical trials using adult cells are "simpler," as they typically use the patient's own cells. Embryonic cells have more potential, as they are completely undifferentiated, but are more complex to put into application, as genetic and targeted specialization problems still exist. Embryonic cells will take more time to completely understand, but there's no debating that they have more potential. Wrong again. There was NEVER a need to use human stem cells. Because you could NEVER USE THEM FOR A HUMAN SUBJECT. Any researcher doing such work will do it on lower primates. You do not know the difference between in vitro and in vivo studies, do you? NO TREATEMENTS CAN BE PERFORMED UNTIL IN VITRO HAS BEEN PROVEN. Then, the knowledge gained by in vitro is applied to in vivo ON LOWER PRIMATES, meaning all studies will start with LOWER PRIMATE DERIVED EMBRYONIC STEM CELL LINES. Which have NO RESTRICTION. You are an ignorant Dr. Frankenstein in the making. Why would we work with primates if mice will do the job? Primates are much more expensive, are more intelligent and won't give us very much more information than mice. As I said in my above post, Medline available to you; educate yourself. In vivo animal studies have been conducted. In vitro human studies have not been done with quality cells. |
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The clinical studies being done now with adult human cells are very crude. They consist, essentially, of injecting purified bone marrow into muscle tissue. These are the studies that get the mass media attention.
Embryonic cells are a different ballgame. More background work (Keith- in vitro work) needs to be done to understand how they differentiate and how to genetically manipulate them to make them compatible with an individual patient. A lot of work has been done in this field using animal models, but the research on human cells has been limited due to the quality of the 20-something cell lines which we have been limited to using. |
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You are as well versed on stem cells as Rep C. McCarthy is on firearms. You know, "that shoulder thing that goes up". and barrel shrouds. Quoted:
You are an ignorant Dr. Frankenstein in the making. Keith, Apparently you are very passionate about this subject. I'm sure we can all learn from your knowledge on this particular subject. That doesn't mean you have to attack other member, including myself. This can stay friendly. Please be civilized, or don't post in this thread. |
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You are as well versed on stem cells as Rep C. McCarthy is on firearms. You know, "that shoulder thing that goes up". and barrel shrouds. Quoted:
You are an ignorant Dr. Frankenstein in the making. Keith, Apparently you are very passionate about this subject. I'm sure we can all learn from your knowledge on this particular subject. That doesn't mean you have to attack other member, including myself. This can stay friendly. Please be civilized, or don't post in this thread. I am only passionate on TRUTH. This subject is fraught with outright LIES. I am SICK of people passing off what they hear as truth. It is YOU who is passionate about LIES. And that is where we differ. Got any of them "shoulder things that flip up"? That is the SAME THING. TRUTH. |
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Anything and everything, should be pouring billions of dollars into it. Yep. If we don't, we're quickly going to fall behind those who will. Opposing this research is analogous to opposing the "weaponization" of space. +2. CJ Like Korea? Hwang Woo-Suk? Yep, lived up to his name...S. Korean stem cell SCAM |
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You are as well versed on stem cells as Rep C. McCarthy is on firearms. You know, "that shoulder thing that goes up". and barrel shrouds. Quoted:
You are an ignorant Dr. Frankenstein in the making. Keith, Apparently you are very passionate about this subject. I'm sure we can all learn from your knowledge on this particular subject. That doesn't mean you have to attack other member, including myself. This can stay friendly. Please be civilized, or don't post in this thread. I am only passionate on TRUTH. This subject is fraught with outright LIES. I am SICK of people passing off what they hear as truth. It is YOU who is passionate about LIES. And that is where we differ. Got any of them "shoulder things that flip up"? That is the SAME THING. TRUTH. You apparently haven't got the message. At this point you are trolling. |
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The ESR goes along with BO's abortion/infanticide record.
Bush outlawed federal funding for ESR but didn't outlaw the research. In the meantime, ASCs have provided huge breakthroughs in the curing of a ton of things. ESCs have not provided any breakthroughs and the cases in China where people were injected with ESCs they couldn't control them and people died. ASCs are mature and are controllable, ESCs are downright dangerous. |
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There hasn't been one breakthru anywhere with embryonic stem cells using private funds that has panned out, [hence the gimme govt money BS] unlike adult and the like which already has a track record of sucesses.
Anyone base enough to use embryonic to be "cured" of something............well, I'd probably be banned if I spoke my piece. To kill to cure is immoral. |
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You are as well versed on stem cells as Rep C. McCarthy is on firearms. You know, "that shoulder thing that goes up". and barrel shrouds. Quoted:
You are an ignorant Dr. Frankenstein in the making. Keith, Apparently you are very passionate about this subject. I'm sure we can all learn from your knowledge on this particular subject. That doesn't mean you have to attack other member, including myself. This can stay friendly. Please be civilized, or don't post in this thread. I am only passionate on TRUTH. This subject is fraught with outright LIES. I am SICK of people passing off what they hear as truth. It is YOU who is passionate about LIES. And that is where we differ. Got any of them "shoulder things that flip up"? That is the SAME THING. TRUTH. You apparently haven't got the message. At this point you are trolling. I don't see his contributions to this discussion as trolling. |
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You are as well versed on stem cells as Rep C. McCarthy is on firearms. You know, "that shoulder thing that goes up". and barrel shrouds. Quoted:
You are an ignorant Dr. Frankenstein in the making. Keith, Apparently you are very passionate about this subject. I'm sure we can all learn from your knowledge on this particular subject. That doesn't mean you have to attack other member, including myself. This can stay friendly. Please be civilized, or don't post in this thread. I am only passionate on TRUTH. This subject is fraught with outright LIES. I am SICK of people passing off what they hear as truth. It is YOU who is passionate about LIES. And that is where we differ. Got any of them "shoulder things that flip up"? That is the SAME THING. TRUTH. You apparently haven't got the message. At this point you are trolling. I don't see his contributions to this discussion as trolling. 6.) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. You have a right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner. |
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You are as well versed on stem cells as Rep C. McCarthy is on firearms. You know, "that shoulder thing that goes up". and barrel shrouds. Quoted:
You are an ignorant Dr. Frankenstein in the making. Keith, Apparently you are very passionate about this subject. I'm sure we can all learn from your knowledge on this particular subject. That doesn't mean you have to attack other member, including myself. This can stay friendly. Please be civilized, or don't post in this thread. I am only passionate on TRUTH. This subject is fraught with outright LIES. I am SICK of people passing off what they hear as truth. It is YOU who is passionate about LIES. And that is where we differ. Got any of them "shoulder things that flip up"? That is the SAME THING. TRUTH. You apparently haven't got the message. At this point you are trolling. I don't see his contributions to this discussion as trolling. 6.) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. You have a right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner. The most I said compared you with a Shelley character. You might try reading a bit. I was not expecting negative response. I was just using metaphorical references which obiviously went far over your head. |
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You are as well versed on stem cells as Rep C. McCarthy is on firearms. You know, "that shoulder thing that goes up". and barrel shrouds. Quoted:
You are an ignorant Dr. Frankenstein in the making. Keith, Apparently you are very passionate about this subject. I'm sure we can all learn from your knowledge on this particular subject. That doesn't mean you have to attack other member, including myself. This can stay friendly. Please be civilized, or don't post in this thread. I am only passionate on TRUTH. This subject is fraught with outright LIES. I am SICK of people passing off what they hear as truth. It is YOU who is passionate about LIES. And that is where we differ. Got any of them "shoulder things that flip up"? That is the SAME THING. TRUTH. You apparently haven't got the message. At this point you are trolling. I don't see his contributions to this discussion as trolling. 6.) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. You have a right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner. The most I said compared you with a Shelley character. You might try reading a bit. I was not expecting negative response. I was just using metaphorical references which obiviously went far over your head. Sorry, I don't read fiction. No, you call people ignorant, and try to make them seem below you to convey your message. Someone of intelligence can do it in a civilized manner. You're an internet tough guy. I feel sorry for you. |
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I'm against it for several reasons. The biggest is that it isn't a delegated duty of government to do such research. The research should take place in private institutions (as it has been for over a decade) Should a private institution find a break through, they should patten it to make money.
It also creeps me out experimenting on human beings (even if they are just embryo's. This arguement isn't really about stem cell research as you can use stem cells in umbilical cords, what it really is about is for radical abortionists to justify the taking of innocent life. I am sure there are some exceptions, but really this is nothing more than finding ways to justify abortion, and it makes me sick. |
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Anything and everything, should be pouring billions of dollars into it. Yep. If we don't, we're quickly going to fall behind those who will. Opposing this research is analogous to opposing the "weaponization" of space. +2. CJ +3 +4 +5, and just for the record, we should be building fucking battlestars in orbit too. 
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Where is the "none of Governments business" choice!! +1 W Bush had it right... No federal funding. Let the private sector develop it in patentable form.... Actually Dave, you are incorrect. Before President Bush, there was NO federally funded embryonic stem cell research. With the EO, federally funded research was limited to the 19 existing embryonic stem cell lines, NO MORE. Since these lines are immortal, meaning they are constantly replicating in the NIH lab, there is no shortage for qualified research UNDER FEDERAL FUNDING. There was a concern these lines may become contaminated or mutated, none of this has EVER BEEN PROVEN. I wish everyone would do a little research on this subject as there are too many people getting incorrect information, mostly from the far left leaning main stream media. |
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Embryonic and fetal stem cells are unnecessary. Regressed adult stems cells have rendered them obsolete.
That won't stop the liberals from clamoring for their use, since it has become one of their party planks. |
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Where is the "none of Governments business" choice!! +1 W Bush had it right... No federal funding. Let the private sector develop it in patentable form.... Actually Dave, you are incorrect. Before President Bush, there was NO federally funded embryonic stem cell research. With the EO, federally funded research was limited to the 19 existing embryonic stem cell lines, NO MORE. Since these lines are immortal, meaning they are constantly replicating in the NIH lab, there is no shortage for qualified research UNDER FEDERAL FUNDING. There was a concern these lines may become contaminated or mutated, none of this has EVER BEEN PROVEN. I wish everyone would do a little research on this subject as there are too many people getting incorrect information, mostly from the far left leaning main stream media. Anything else we should know Keith? |
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Where is the "none of Governments business" choice!! +1 W Bush had it right... No federal funding. Let the private sector develop it in patentable form.... Actually Dave, you are incorrect. Before President Bush, there was NO federally funded embryonic stem cell research. With the EO, federally funded research was limited to the 19 existing embryonic stem cell lines, NO MORE. Since these lines are immortal, meaning they are constantly replicating in the NIH lab, there is no shortage for qualified research UNDER FEDERAL FUNDING. There was a concern these lines may become contaminated or mutated, none of this has EVER BEEN PROVEN. I wish everyone would do a little research on this subject as there are too many people getting incorrect information, mostly from the far left leaning main stream media. Why, when apparently you're an expert and can tell us all what we should believe.  Why do you have such a hard time researching the subject? Why do you want to be confrotational? I did not express ANY of my postions on ethics, much less faith. I have exposed serious fraud on the part of one team...http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/genetics/2006-01-02-stem-cell-govt_x.htm As an undergrad, I was on a research team using both in vitro and in vivo stages, funded under a mix of private and NIH grants. The research method, plus federal/private funding quirks (I pushed for a change in USDA methods, not only on the grounds of ethics but also it interfered with our investigational protocols). I have friends who ARE studying stem cells, both patient derived and embryonic. The latter is a PRIVATELY FUNDED venture, they have NOT been impeeded at any time due to the non-existant "ban" that had been falsely spread by the main stream media. You either listen to what I say or remain ignorant. |
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Where is the "none of Governments business" choice!! +1 W Bush had it right... No federal funding. Let the private sector develop it in patentable form.... Actually Dave, you are incorrect. Before President Bush, there was NO federally funded embryonic stem cell research. With the EO, federally funded research was limited to the 19 existing embryonic stem cell lines, NO MORE. Since these lines are immortal, meaning they are constantly replicating in the NIH lab, there is no shortage for qualified research UNDER FEDERAL FUNDING. There was a concern these lines may become contaminated or mutated, none of this has EVER BEEN PROVEN. I wish everyone would do a little research on this subject as there are too many people getting incorrect information, mostly from the far left leaning main stream media. Why, when apparently you're an expert and can tell us all what we should believe. Why do you have such a hard time researching the subject? Why do you want to be confrotational? I did not express ANY of my postions on ethics, much less faith. I have exposed serious fraud on the part of one team...http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/genetics/2006-01-02-stem-cell-govt_x.htm As an undergrad, I was on a research team using both in vitro and in vivo stages, funded under a mix of private and NIH grants. The research method, plus federal/private funding quirks (I pushed for a change in USDA methods, not only on the grounds of ethics but also it interfered with our investigational protocols). I have friends who ARE studying stem cells, both patient derived and embryonic. The latter is a PRIVATELY FUNDED venture, they have NOT been impeeded at any time due to the non-existant "ban" that had been falsely spread by the main stream media. You either listen to what I say or remain ignorant. I can do the research on my own. I don't need the "listen to what I say or remain ignorant" guy telling me anything. I'm confrontational because of the way you speak down to people. |
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Arcteryx, the only person attempting to derail your thread is you. I've said it to him, and i'll say it to you. He talks down to people to build himself and his opinions/facts up. He might be right, but he doesn't have to be rude. Whether you call it a CoC or not is up to you. But as a professional, I know when to keep my mouth shut. I also have manners. I might not have been around as long as him, but i'm still a paying member, and i'm right. I've asked you twice to lock the thread now. I'm asking for the third time. |
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I voted that your poll still sucks because the issue isn't whether its fine or not, it's if the government should pay for it.
This research was NEVER BANNED. It just was not federally funded. Now it is going to be federally funded. That is my beef with it, federal funding - using my money for purposes I don't really like without consent. Taxation and policy implementation without representation. |
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I voted that your poll still sucks because the issue isn't whether its fine or not, it's if the government should pay for it. This research was NEVER BANNED. It just was not federally funded. Now it is going to be federally funded. That is my beef with it, federal funding - using my money for purposes I don't really like without consent. Taxation and policy implementation without representation. WOW, you would really be pissed if you knew about all the research the gov't funds. I have heard of a couple NIH/NSF grants that made me just shake my head. Cancer research via stem cells is nothing. |
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Where is the "none of Governments business" choice!! +1 W Bush had it right... No federal funding. Let the private sector develop it in patentable form.... Actually Dave, you are incorrect. Before President Bush, there was NO federally funded embryonic stem cell research. With the EO, federally funded research was limited to the 19 existing embryonic stem cell lines, NO MORE. Since these lines are immortal, meaning they are constantly replicating in the NIH lab, there is no shortage for qualified research UNDER FEDERAL FUNDING. There was a concern these lines may become contaminated or mutated, none of this has EVER BEEN PROVEN. I wish everyone would do a little research on this subject as there are too many people getting incorrect information, mostly from the far left leaning main stream media. Why, when apparently you're an expert and can tell us all what we should believe. Why do you have such a hard time researching the subject? Why do you want to be confrotational? I did not express ANY of my postions on ethics, much less faith. I have exposed serious fraud on the part of one team...http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/genetics/2006-01-02-stem-cell-govt_x.htm As an undergrad, I was on a research team using both in vitro and in vivo stages, funded under a mix of private and NIH grants. The research method, plus federal/private funding quirks (I pushed for a change in USDA methods, not only on the grounds of ethics but also it interfered with our investigational protocols). I have friends who ARE studying stem cells, both patient derived and embryonic. The latter is a PRIVATELY FUNDED venture, they have NOT been impeeded at any time due to the non-existant "ban" that had been falsely spread by the main stream media. You either listen to what I say or remain ignorant. I can do the research on my own. I don't need the "listen to what I say or remain ignorant" guy telling me anything. I'm confrontational because of the way you speak down to people. When I posted my thread on stem cell research Keith got so mad he said he wanted to kill me with his car. 
All kidding aside Keith is right. There was no BAN as even I was referring to it as and I think he has a legitmate point about the patent issues using Goverment money. BUT While everybody is arguing Morality, Ethical issues, patent rights, funding restrictions and whether or not the shit even works the fucking stocks are going to go thru the roof now. Fuck everything else. Buy the goddamn things. Look at their charts going way back. EVERY time something favorable for stem cell research has happened the stocks spiked. |