[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Student Loans (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/22/2014 9:06:05 AM EDT
| Would you allow your child to get them? I had them and paid them off early. I say they are from the devil. What says the hive? |
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Would you allow your child to get them? I had them and paid them off early. I say they are from the devil. What says the hive? Sure, but I'd encourage them to make the business case for it first. Most of the bitching about student loans is from people that didn't do the math first. Debt is just a tool when you use it like one. |
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Hell yeah, I would allow my child to get them, or grants, or work and pay their own way through school. Once they are adults, it is their problem. Of course I warn them about debt in general, but it is their life. This is a good route to take, But the problem exists with the attention span we have today. "I really want a music degree, spend 4 years at a private school; I never used it, but I really want to become a nurse now, fast track masters program 1.5 years with some work before for pre-reqs." It can get expensive fast   .
OP - yes they are from the devil, same as Facebook and other garbage
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If your son/daughter is a high achiever that is going into a profession that the pay back is pretty much certain - and they (and you) need them to afford an expensive school - I don't see a problem. Fact is - a LOT of people aren't hard burners and are studying in fields that have questionable or waning futures. In those cases - the risk and burden is higher. I was just reading an article the other day on fields that are now moving towards high risk. In any case - you take on the debt - you pay it back. |
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They're a boot on the throat of this nation's young people. This. I'm not having kids but there is no way in fuck I would let my kid take out a loan for an undergrad degree. No fucking way. Then again, I'm pretty sure that if I were to have a kid right now, the higher education landscape will be significantly different. The current trend is simply unsustainable. Student loans are a fucking racket. |
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Seeing the job market and the $1 Trillion+ student loan balances makes me question whether or not most kids need to go to college. College is still an excellent investment so long as you go in knowing what you want to do. For example, my wife went back to school and got an English degree with the intention of being a professional writer/editor and took classes towards that. She did, and her salary went from 20k/year or so as a vet tech to 55k/year at just two years out of school. Her classmates who just went to college because that's what you do after HS are floundering. She knows a guy who got a theology degree with no thought as to what he was going to do with it. Now he isn't doing anything with it. Let alone all her English classmates who wanted to write novels and shit. So, yeah, that worked out well. So it's like any investment. My BA in History has paid of rather well, along with some luck. But truth be told, looking at the market, if I was coming out of HS these days I'd be trying to get an apprenticeship in some of the trades. College is just fancy training and thus an investment, and you have to know how to get a return off it before you go spending time and money. The people that know that going in will be fine. If our future kids tell us they want our help for college and they don't have a plan and will "find themselves and figure it out later" then they're getting jack shit. If you want to "find yourself" save up some money and go fucking backpacking on the AT or some shit. It won't cost $30k a year. |
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An awful lot of people signing up to get a boot on their throats these days. Quoted:
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They're a boot on the throat of this nation's young people. An awful lot of people signing up to get a boot on their throats these days. Can you really blame them? They've been sold a bill of goods since childhood from teachers, school counselors, friends and their own parents about getting into some prestigious college. It's unlikely anyone has told them any better. Now most of them will be paying off student loans until they're ready to retire. |
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Would you allow your child to get them? I had them and paid them off early. I say they are from the devil. What says the hive? College is on the kids. I would make sure that they know what they could potentially be getting into. Does the debt make sense given what your future earnings could be? I had them - paid them off as early as I could. This was back when the interest on them was 7%-8% and you got no deduction on your taxes. |
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Sure, but I'd encourage them to make the business case for it first. Most of the bitching about student loans is from people that didn't do the math first. Debt is just a tool when you use it like one. Quoted:
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Would you allow your child to get them? I had them and paid them off early. I say they are from the devil. What says the hive? Sure, but I'd encourage them to make the business case for it first. Most of the bitching about student loans is from people that didn't do the math first. Debt is just a tool when you use it like one. Precisely. I graduated with around 30k debt at between 5% and 7% interest (deferred payment until after graduation). I knew going in that I would be going into debt, and was confident in my ability to land a good job and pay it back. Well I was right, had a good job lined up before graduation, 5.5 years later I have it paid down below 5k and will probably finish paying off within the year. Don't let the people scare you off of getting a little debt for something that is worthwhile, as long as you make informed decisions you (or your kids) will be fine. |
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Quoted: An awful lot of people signing up to get a boot on their throats these days. Quoted: Quoted: They're a boot on the throat of this nation's young people. An awful lot of people signing up to get a boot on their throats these days. Same as there were a lot of stupid people who "cashed in” their equity when the housing market was inflated only to go into foreclosure when they realized they couldn’t possibly pay the payment on the $300,000 loan that they had on their $110,000 home… Stupid is as stupid does… But you were correct in your other reply about debt being a tool and like any tool you must respect it and use it properly or you will wind up in trouble. |
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They're a boot on the throat of this nation's young folks. That's horse shit. They're only a boot on the throat of kids that are taking out too big of loans to manage paying off with the degree or work ethic they posses. GD has a zero tolerance policy on FSA behavior. Borrowing more than you can pay back is FSA behavior. |
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If that was the only way they could get to go to college, and college is on their lifelong goals list, AND you have faith in them that they won't quit, I'd definitely recommend it.
My philosophy is that kids need to pay for their own college. I cosigned for a few loans for my son and he took out a few others on his own. He graduated about 25k in debt and started his first position out of college at about 32k. He had other offers up to the high 40's but that would have required moving which was off the table due to his wife being in college a year behind him. I borrowed all my way through college and I have no regrets. Like someone else already mentioned, make sure they understand the math behind the decision. |
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Associate and two bachelors here, employer paid for my two bachelors and I paid out of pocket for the associate.
Student loans are generally a bad investment unless you are majoring in a STEM field, actually college is generally a bad idea altogether unless you major in STEM 
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Can you really blame them? They've been sold a bill of goods since childhood from teachers, school counselors, friends and their own parents about getting into some prestigious college. It's unlikely anyone has told them any better. Now most of them will be paying off student loans until they're ready to retire. Quoted:
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They're a boot on the throat of this nation's young people. An awful lot of people signing up to get a boot on their throats these days. Can you really blame them? They've been sold a bill of goods since childhood from teachers, school counselors, friends and their own parents about getting into some prestigious college. It's unlikely anyone has told them any better. Now most of them will be paying off student loans until they're ready to retire. I don't disagree with what you are saying. There is definitely an issue of financial literacy in this country in that most people graduate high school without it and many never acquire it even at a later date. |
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My wife had them because her parents refused to pay for her to go to school (not "couldn't afford it"). She is smart, and had the grades but couldn't get federal student aid because her parents made too much. So she got student loans. Didn't go to a super expensive school, but not a community college either. She got a good degree and has a solid job now with advancement opportunities, although not directly in her field of study, it required a degree and she likes what she does.
I married her knowing the debt she had, and it is not too much of a burden on us now that we are both graduated and have jobs. We are looking at buying our first house, and all the student loans factor in is we can't buy a bigger house. NBD, we can hardly fill the house we can afford with the furniture that we have haha. Overall, the student loans were able to get my wife to the point where she could get a good job and start a career that will be very lucrative and successful in the coming years. So yes, Student loans are good, when used appropriately. |
| I say if the student can't pay after a certain number of years, then make the school pay the balance. That would give the school the incentive to cut out a lot of the $200,000.00 Underwater Feminist Basket Weaving crap. Don't say that is a FSA move. We as taxpayers are already paying for those unsecured loans that will never be paid back. This way the schools are give motivation to churn out employable graduates. |
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An awful lot of people signing up to get a boot on their throats these days. Quoted:
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They're a boot on the throat of this nation's young people. An awful lot of people signing up to get a boot on their throats these days. That's because they do not realize that it is. This bullshit is hammered into the kids from middle school onward. YOU NEED TO GET A DEGREE. YOU NEED TO GET A DEGREE IN ANYTHING. Without a degree, you will be sucking dick behind a convenience store dumpster for nickels. Trade schools are for meth heads that live in trailer parks. If you want a regular job and good money, you need to get a degree, and it does not matter what it is. This is the mantra from teachers, guidance counselors, college head hunters, etc from the time a kid is 12-18. In the end, you have a kid that has a 4 year degree in some dumb shit, their highest work experience is probably fast food, and there is no way in fuck they are going to get a job. I know arfcom doesn't, but I feel sorry for them because they are doing exactly what they were told to do, and now they are FUCKED. Of course, everyone here worked while going to school. The reality is that even a state school is going to cost you $50,000 or $12,500 per year. Most college students will be lucky to make $12 an hour, and they probably won't be able to work full time except during the summer. Assuming they do work full time, that's only about $17K after taxes. That's $400 or so a month to live on. The only way to make that work is to live at home and have your parents pay for the VAST majority of your bills. $400 a month will not get you very far in life. There is a solution to this - stop all federal lending, and allow student loans to be discharged through bankruptcy!!!! This will pop the fuck out of that bubble. The direct consequence will be that nobody will loan money anymore - and the schools will be forced by the market to actually charge a sustainable rate. |
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I say if the student can't pay after a certain number of years, then make the school pay the balance. That would give the school the incentive to cut out a lot of the $200,000.00 Underwater Feminist Basket Weaving crap. Don't say that is a FSA move. We as taxpayers are already paying for those unsecured loans that will never be paid back. This way the schools are give motivation to churn out employable graduates. School is a business, we really can't blame them for the poor decisions that their customers are making. |
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1) By the time student loans are an issue they are an adult and presumably can make adult decisions. I will advise them as needed, but at that point I don't get to "allow" them or not.
2) If used wisely there isn't a problem with them. A wise use involves looking at the earning potential of their chosen major and compare it to the cost of attendance. Keeping the amount of money borrowed within reason (1 year gross salary with no other significant debt) should be a priority. |
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Quoted: Would you allow your child to get them? I had them and paid them off early. I say they are from the devil. What says the hive? The interest rate used to be so low that it was encouraged to get them and made no sense to pay it off early in lump sum since the interest was so low. Now, not so much. |
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I say if the student can't pay after a certain number of years, then make the school pay the balance. That would give the school the incentive to cut out a lot of the $200,000.00 Underwater Feminist Basket Weaving crap. Don't say that is a FSA move. We as taxpayers are already paying for those unsecured loans that will never be paid back. This way the schools are give motivation to churn out employable graduates. Or schools could actually teach critical thinking skills, which would lead many students to conclude up front that a $200k degree in UFBW is bullshit. |
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Student loans are not stupid.
Paying $100,000 to get a degree in a profession that has a 30% placement rate for new graduates at a starting salary of $27,000 / year is stupid. Borrowing as much as you can, while having no idea how much your monthly payment will be six months after you graduate, is stupid. I have NO SYMPATHY for those who chose to borrow obscene amounts of money for low paying degrees. |
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School is a business, we really can't blame them for the poor decisions that their customers are making. Quoted:
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I say if the student can't pay after a certain number of years, then make the school pay the balance. That would give the school the incentive to cut out a lot of the $200,000.00 Underwater Feminist Basket Weaving crap. Don't say that is a FSA move. We as taxpayers are already paying for those unsecured loans that will never be paid back. This way the schools are give motivation to churn out employable graduates. School is a business, we really can't blame them for the poor decisions that their customers are making. I do. Especially when they have a business model that only bernie madoff could love. I am not fucking kidding. When I was in 8th grade (composed of 13 and 14 year olds) some college head hunter came to our middle school during career week to tell us the importance of getting a degree. This jackoff ASSURED us that we would not be able to get a job without a degree when we were older. That was bullshit then, it's bullshit now, and it is fucking despicable. If some dude fucks a 16 year old girl, GD is firing up the wood chippers and flame throwers. If some dude tells a 16 year old girl that the only way she will be able to do anything with her future is to borrow $50, $60, $70, $80 THOUSAND dollars to pay him he is a free market capitalist just doing his job. |
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I just graduated after 9 years of college and grad school. Wife was in college for 7 years. We got student loans to pay for roughly 6 of those years.
The money we make now, that $40k in student loans will be paid off in 6 months. Moral of the story, don't major in art history and your income will be high enough to pay off you student loans in no time at all. Our degrees are in Math, Chemistry, Chemical Engineering (me), and hers are in Biology and Chemistry. The longest it has ever taken us to find a job was a month. Major in the sciences and it's worth it. If you're going to major in art, history, or any other liberal arts degree, you'd be better off getting a job for UPS and working your way up. |
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I do. Especially when they have a business model that only bernie madoff could love. I am not fucking kidding. When I was in 8th grade (composed of 13 and 14 year olds) some college head hunter came to our middle school during career week to tell us the importance of getting a degree. This jackoff ASSURED us that we would not be able to get a job without a degree when we were older. That was bullshit then, it's bullshit now, and it is fucking despicable. If some dude fucks a 16 year old girl, GD is firing up the wood chippers and flame throwers. If some dude tells a 16 year old girl that the only way she will be able to do anything with her future is to borrow $50, $60, $70, $80 THOUSAND dollars to pay him he is a free market capitalist just doing his job. Quoted:
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I say if the student can't pay after a certain number of years, then make the school pay the balance. That would give the school the incentive to cut out a lot of the $200,000.00 Underwater Feminist Basket Weaving crap. Don't say that is a FSA move. We as taxpayers are already paying for those unsecured loans that will never be paid back. This way the schools are give motivation to churn out employable graduates. School is a business, we really can't blame them for the poor decisions that their customers are making. I do. Especially when they have a business model that only bernie madoff could love. I am not fucking kidding. When I was in 8th grade (composed of 13 and 14 year olds) some college head hunter came to our middle school during career week to tell us the importance of getting a degree. This jackoff ASSURED us that we would not be able to get a job without a degree when we were older. That was bullshit then, it's bullshit now, and it is fucking despicable. If some dude fucks a 16 year old girl, GD is firing up the wood chippers and flame throwers. If some dude tells a 16 year old girl that the only way she will be able to do anything with her future is to borrow $50, $60, $70, $80 THOUSAND dollars to pay him he is a free market capitalist just doing his job. No one forces an individual to take out thousands in loans for a lib art degree nor does anyone force an individual to even go to college. I teach at a community college on the side and see both sides of the fence. If little Johnny or little sally take 40 - 100 K on a shit degree then they are to blame, not the college/university. |
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When my son was choosing which college to go to, he finally narrowed it down to two. One was a top private university which offered him an extremely good scholarship. One was a state school that didn't offer scholarships ("we put our money back into the university"). The same STEM major at both. Pretty much the same employers interview and hire from both. The difference between the two would be about $7k/year after all was said and done. He chose the private university. I think he made the right choice. Debt isn't a bad thing as long as it's based on intelligent decisions. |
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I just graduated after 9 years of college and grad school. Wife was in college for 7 years. We got student loans to pay for roughly 6 of those years. The money we make now, that $40k in student loans will be paid off in 6 months. Moral of the story, don't major in art history and your income will be high enough to pay off you student loans in no time at all. Our degrees are in Math, Chemistry, Chemical Engineering (me), and hers are in Biology and Chemistry. The longest it has ever taken us to find a job was a month. Major in the sciences and it's worth it. If you're going to major in art, history, or any other liberal arts degree, you'd be better off getting a job for UPS and working your way up. This guy gets it. Stem majors are worth it, all others maybe or maybe not. |
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I just graduated after 9 years of college and grad school. Wife was in college for 7 years. We got student loans to pay for roughly 6 of those years. The money we make now, that $40k in student loans will be paid off in 6 months. Moral of the story, don't major in art history and your income will be high enough to pay off you student loans in no time at all. Our degrees are in Math, Chemistry, Chemical Engineering (me), and hers are in Biology and Chemistry. The longest it has ever taken us to find a job was a month. Major in the sciences and it's worth it. If you're going to major in art, history, or any other liberal arts degree, you'd be better off getting a job for UPS and working your way up. 6 months? $40k? I'd like to see that... |
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Quoted: 6 months? $40k? I'd like to see that... Quoted: Quoted: I just graduated after 9 years of college and grad school. Wife was in college for 7 years. We got student loans to pay for roughly 6 of those years. The money we make now, that $40k in student loans will be paid off in 6 months. Moral of the story, don't major in art history and your income will be high enough to pay off you student loans in no time at all. Our degrees are in Math, Chemistry, Chemical Engineering (me), and hers are in Biology and Chemistry. The longest it has ever taken us to find a job was a month. Major in the sciences and it's worth it. If you're going to major in art, history, or any other liberal arts degree, you'd be better off getting a job for UPS and working your way up. 6 months? $40k? I'd like to see that... Assuming 50% of income going to taxes and living expenses, a couple making near 6 figures, each, could pull that off. Not really far fetched considering the degrees mentioned. |
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My son is in college right now. I am doing all I can do to make damn sure he doesn't have to get them. I'm in my first year of college I'm still using financial aid so far no loans I'm getting my certifications in diesel mechanics and then going on for my associates degree. |
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Assuming 50% of income going to taxes and living expenses, a couple making near 6 figures, each, could pull that off. Not really far fetched considering the degrees mentioned. Quoted:
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I just graduated after 9 years of college and grad school. Wife was in college for 7 years. We got student loans to pay for roughly 6 of those years. The money we make now, that $40k in student loans will be paid off in 6 months. Moral of the story, don't major in art history and your income will be high enough to pay off you student loans in no time at all. Our degrees are in Math, Chemistry, Chemical Engineering (me), and hers are in Biology and Chemistry. The longest it has ever taken us to find a job was a month. Major in the sciences and it's worth it. If you're going to major in art, history, or any other liberal arts degree, you'd be better off getting a job for UPS and working your way up. 6 months? $40k? I'd like to see that... Assuming 50% of income going to taxes and living expenses, a couple making near 6 figures, each, could pull that off. Not really far fetched considering the degrees mentioned. It might be possible (if you're living on a thousand dollars a month or so, given how much taxes eat up), but it would require putting all your money towards it, not allowing you to save or contribute to 401k. Which would be foolish. I make about the same, have a little more than that in loans, and can't feasibly see how I would be able to pay it down in a year, unless I lived in a box for that year, while putting nothing in 401k, Roth, or HSA. But I'm good at math, so I wouldn't do that. |