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Posted: 11/9/2015 12:42:59 PM EDT
[#1]
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Then just sell all your modern guns and use a halberd. Its reliable 100% of the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As long as your rifle is absolutely reliable, then over 90% of the equation is the guy pulling the trigger, not the tool. Then just sell all your modern guns and use a halberd. Its reliable 100% of the time. Reading is for suckas. 
Speaking of suckas, that's why you have a backup, brah. 
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Posted: 11/9/2015 12:51:02 PM EDT
[#2]
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That is what has me asking the question. As purpose driven as my gun purchases usually are, and this one would fill the most important niche of home defense, it's so hard for me to consider putting $1.6k into a rifle that shoots 3 MOA. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The bull pup would seem better for indoor use, given the shorter OAL and better center of gravity. That is what has me asking the question. As purpose driven as my gun purchases usually are, and this one would fill the most important niche of home defense, it's so hard for me to consider putting $1.6k into a rifle that shoots 3 MOA. The Tavor isn't shooting 3 MOA. You are. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 12:54:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Tavor isn't shooting 3 MOA. You are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The bull pup would seem better for indoor use, given the shorter OAL and better center of gravity. That is what has me asking the question. As purpose driven as my gun purchases usually are, and this one would fill the most important niche of home defense, it's so hard for me to consider putting $1.6k into a rifle that shoots 3 MOA. The Tavor isn't shooting 3 MOA. You are. I tend to agree with this. There are a few people out there showing their 1.5MOA results with the tavor. I haven't tested accuracy with mine yet, but I'll make it a point to do so. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:02:40 PM EDT
[#4]
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Skinnier than tavor. Better trigger than tavor. Longer barrel. Ejects cleanly downward. Simple. No gas face with supressor. Adjustable gas block. Lightweight. I know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kel tec. Skinnier than tavor. Better trigger than tavor. Longer barrel. Ejects cleanly downward. Simple. No gas face with supressor. Adjustable gas block. Lightweight. I know. I kind of wish George Kellgren would form a relationship with Magpul and Ruger. George would design awesome firearms. Magpul would take those designs and make them not look like a bag of smashed assholes. Ruger would mass-produce the ever-living fuck out of them. Just imagine. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:08:17 PM EDT
[#5]
10.5" AR pistol FTMFW
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:08:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Tavor is superior for this IMO especially when tied to the Geissele trigger pack.
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:13:03 PM EDT
[#7]
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Kel tec. Quote History
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:13:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10.5" AR pistol FTMFW http://<a href=http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u558/gotuonpaper/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-01/A41DF426-3F56-45CC-A014-28A8AFE8BE2F_zpsgz3ow09l.jpg</a>" /> WHAT?
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:14:03 PM EDT
[#9]
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500 dollar AR vs 2k(ish) Tavor, if you use it in legal self defense and it's confiscated (not saying it will be or that it's right)... I'd rather that Steve the deputy takes the 500 dollar AR as evidence vs my expensive and relatively rare Tavor. That's just me, though. Do I get to take my $800 in optics off? |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:19:45 PM EDT
[#10]
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10.5" AR pistol FTMFW What caliber is yours? |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:20:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are using something that you could potentially be protecting yourself with, you should go with the one that you've trained with. I doubt you'd want to be fumbling around with a rifle when you're trying to not die. I've been trying to not die for 33 years now. Lately, I've been thinking it's not fair that I have not given dying a chance. I feel I should try dying at least once so that I can make an informed decision. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:31:47 PM EDT
[#12]
These worked just fine for navigating narrow hallways and small rooms in a non-permissive structure. Of course, people who have attended Richard Driver™ training understand how to use their weapon platforms effectively regardless of the length and girth of the weapon or the operator.
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:31:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
/thread Quote HistoryExactly. I'm glad to see someone gets it. I know which I'm picking in a HD situation. 
#oal #shortenallthethings #shortgunsmatter |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:33:32 PM EDT
[#14]
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Really? You use a rifle to save your life, which never happens, btw, and then you worry about the cost. My life and my family's life is worth more than $2k, so whatever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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500 dollar AR vs 2k(ish) Tavor, if you use it in legal self defense and it's confiscated (not saying it will be or that it's right)... I'd rather that Steve the deputy takes the 500 dollar AR as evidence vs my expensive and relatively rare Tavor. That's just me, though. Really? You use a rifle to save your life, which never happens, btw, and then you worry about the cost. My life and my family's life is worth more than $2k, so whatever. Yes but the $500 dollar AR can kill someone just as easy. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:40:06 PM EDT
[#15]
I have a Tavor, ARs, AKs, Sig556, XCR, UZi, etc.. And I prefer to dual wield Glocks! 17 in my left and 21 in my right while I operate. That's two mother fucking grenades. How can you fight against basically a suicide bomber in my home? Ar500 armor? Lol, yeah that will stop part of the tactical operator suicide bomber blast wave when I throw my G17 and then wait for the double tap with the G21. Boom you're blown back and then whaaaaaam! Hit with the 17 and then flipped over ninja turtle until I throw the 21. Nothing is more tactical, not even a Bronie stickered shotgun!
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Posted: 11/9/2015 1:41:07 PM EDT
[#16]
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You tell me. I was on the fence about its authenticity. ETA: I jumped on it last night after I saw the post about the EOTech, but this morning I couldn't find any pictures of an actual EOtech that matched the one in the picture. Haven't attempted to confirm yet with seller, but my purchase was contingent on it being authentic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys are the worst. I would call that poll along with the comments inconclusive at best. Say hello to the proud new owner of a TAVOR. I'll draw my own conclusions after some testing on the range. Is that a fake/knockoff "EOTech" thats being included? You tell me. I was on the fence about its authenticity. ETA: I jumped on it last night after I saw the post about the EOTech, but this morning I couldn't find any pictures of an actual EOtech that matched the one in the picture. Haven't attempted to confirm yet with seller, but my purchase was contingent on it being authentic. It's one of the Bushnell ones made by Eotech. I had one awhile back, I've never seen a FDE cover for it. OP I hope the seller didn't add any serious value for that. I wiuld value them at $150-200 for how old they are. They use the N cell batteries that the early Eotechs did and therefore come with the same issues of battery drain. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 2:26:20 PM EDT
[#17]
I found this video (With a rather attractive hostess I might add) very helpful in demonstrating some of the benefits of the household bullpup vs the M4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5wE1kQuIMA I’m sure everyone will pick it apart on the stock choice/pointy elbows/etc – but the bottom line is still the bottom line, the bullpup is just handier indoors, and still has real BBL. I’m probably not introducing anything new since this has already hit page 4, but I suggest looking into an AUG. The AUG allows all the advantages of a 16” Tavor, with the benefit of being able to turn it into a 20” BBL AUG if you want, in about 5 seconds (30 seconds if you’re slow). I’ve never had a hard time grabbing my AUG. Either by using the integrated scope as a handle (usually), grabbing behind the pistol grip, or using the forward pistol grip. As to accuracy – you can get 2” all day out of an AUG with good ammo, and better with great ammo. As to M4 being just as good – sure, professionals house clear with 14.5” BBL rifles. They also do it in fire teams, with one guy covering the entrance as the other actuates the door. If you are going solo room-to-room and around corners, it’s very (VERY) easy to keep the bullpup in one hand – POINTED LEVEL THROUGH THE DOOR – while the other hand actuates the door knob. Not impossible, but harder to do and less well balanced (i.e. controlled) with an M4 than a bullpup. For configurations <16” BBL, OK sure, that’s getting into Fed Paperwork/exotics that I don’t think the OP is interested in. The nice thing about the AUG is it’s still a real BBL length, and great general use gun he can take and shoot 300 yards with. Just my 2 cents. In truth, a 24” .22 crack shot still beats a baseball bat. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 2:51:42 PM EDT
[#18]
No way I'd want a clunky bullpup. I've had a few different kinds and no matter what I go back to the AR. It's easier indoors.
Need to switch shoulders instantly to check rooms or various side of you? AR comfortably does that. Left handed? Right handed? aR shoots well for both. There is a reason why 10.5" M4s are so popular. And I doubt it's because tavors are so popular and "rare" |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 3:04:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I found this video (With a rather attractive hostess I might add) very helpful in demonstrating some of the benefits of the household bullpup vs the M4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5wE1kQuIMA I’m sure everyone will pick it apart on the stock choice/pointy elbows/etc – but the bottom line is still the bottom line, the bullpup is just handier indoors, and still has real BBL. I’m probably not introducing anything new since this has already hit page 4, but I suggest looking into an AUG. The AUG allows all the advantages of a 16” Tavor, with the benefit of being able to turn it into a 20” BBL AUG if you want, in about 5 seconds (30 seconds if you’re slow). I’ve never had a hard time grabbing my AUG. Either by using the integrated scope as a handle (usually), grabbing behind the pistol grip, or using the forward pistol grip. As to accuracy – you can get 2” all day out of an AUG with good ammo, and better with great ammo. As to M4 being just as good – sure, professionals house clear with 14.5” BBL rifles. They also do it in fire teams, with one guy covering the entrance as the other actuates the door. If you are going solo room-to-room and around corners, it’s very (VERY) easy to keep the bullpup in one hand – POINTED LEVEL THROUGH THE DOOR – while the other hand actuates the door knob. Not impossible, but harder to do and less well balanced (i.e. controlled) with an M4 than a bullpup. For configurations <16” BBL, OK sure, that’s getting into Fed Paperwork/exotics that I don’t think the OP is interested in. The nice thing about the AUG is it’s still a real BBL length, and great general use gun he can take and shoot 300 yards with. Just my 2 cents. In truth, a 24” .22 crack shot still beats a baseball bat. Lol |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 3:28:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same setup as mine except my .300BLK is OD green with a Noveske KX-3. What caliber is yours? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same setup as mine except my .300BLK is OD green with a Noveske KX-3.
What caliber is yours? Barrel is .223 Wylde. Rainier Match with Rainier BCG |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 3:30:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I found this video (With a rather attractive hostess I might add) very helpful in demonstrating some of the benefits of the household bullpup vs the M4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5wE1kQuIMA I’m sure everyone will pick it apart on the stock choice/pointy elbows/etc – but the bottom line is still the bottom line, the bullpup is just handier indoors, and still has real BBL. I’m probably not introducing anything new since this has already hit page 4, but I suggest looking into an AUG. The AUG allows all the advantages of a 16” Tavor, with the benefit of being able to turn it into a 20” BBL AUG if you want, in about 5 seconds (30 seconds if you’re slow). I’ve never had a hard time grabbing my AUG. Either by using the integrated scope as a handle (usually), grabbing behind the pistol grip, or using the forward pistol grip. As to accuracy – you can get 2” all day out of an AUG with good ammo, and better with great ammo. As to M4 being just as good – sure, professionals house clear with 14.5” BBL rifles. They also do it in fire teams, with one guy covering the entrance as the other actuates the door. If you are going solo room-to-room and around corners, it’s very (VERY) easy to keep the bullpup in one hand – POINTED LEVEL THROUGH THE DOOR – while the other hand actuates the door knob. Not impossible, but harder to do and less well balanced (i.e. controlled) with an M4 than a bullpup. For configurations <16” BBL, OK sure, that’s getting into Fed Paperwork/exotics that I don’t think the OP is interested in. The nice thing about the AUG is it’s still a real BBL length, and great general use gun he can take and shoot 300 yards with. Just my 2 cents. In truth, a 24” .22 crack shot still beats a baseball bat. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 3:30:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No way I'd want a clunky bullpup. I've had a few different kinds and no matter what I go back to the AR. It's easier indoors. Need to switch shoulders instantly to check rooms or various side of you? AR comfortably does that. Left handed? Right handed? aR shoots well for both. There is a reason why 10.5" M4s are so popular. And I doubt it's because tavors are so popular and "rare" The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 3:35:28 PM EDT
[#23]
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The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No way I'd want a clunky bullpup. I've had a few different kinds and no matter what I go back to the AR. It's easier indoors. Need to switch shoulders instantly to check rooms or various side of you? AR comfortably does that. Left handed? Right handed? aR shoots well for both. There is a reason why 10.5" M4s are so popular. And I doubt it's because tavors are so popular and "rare" The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? 
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Posted: 11/9/2015 3:38:07 PM EDT
[#24]
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If you can't hold a 7lb rifle level, then get off your ass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you can't hold a 7lb rifle level, then get off your ass. they need to become captains of crush If you were to objectively look at your life, I think you'll find that most of the problems you have stem from your weak, girlish grip. Remember how girls wouldn't date you in high school? That was because they could see you straining to hold your backpack strap. You know how you are tripping all the time? It's because your soft, dainty hands can't tie a tight knot in your shoelaces. You know how your friends are always falling to their deaths? That's because you lose your grip when they've been pushed off of a cliff by a villain and you're holding onto them with one hand. Let's face the facts here, man : your grip game is weak and it's time to step it up. Captains of Crush Hand Grippers will help you do this. These well-built little devices will help you turn that soft breeze of a handshake into hurricane of power with gale force winds. People will be naming your handshake like they do with tropical storms. Girls will fall in love with the quiet, masculine power that courses through your hands after you've worked your way through a CoC gripper or two. Do you remember that scene in Predator where Dutch and Dillon do that handshake? If you watched Predator as a kid, you probably remember this as the moment you started puberty. If you watched Predator as an adult, you'll remember this scene as the moment you went through your second puberty. It's that macho. These grippers can make you a handshaking MACHINE. Added bonus is that you can get certified once you work your way up to a CoC 3. That's a world class grip. Think of how impressed people will be when they walk into your office and see a certificate on the wall saying you are a Captain of Crush. If I walked into my doctor's office and he had that bad boy on the wall, I'd be completely unafraid of getting my prostate checked. A man that has the power to crush will know the value of quiet strength. I'd know I was in good, strong hands. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 3:46:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I found this video (With a rather attractive hostess I might add) very helpful in demonstrating some of the benefits of the household bullpup vs the M4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5wE1kQuIMA I’m sure everyone will pick it apart on the stock choice/pointy elbows/etc – but the bottom line is still the bottom line, the bullpup is just handier indoors, and still has real BBL. I’m probably not introducing anything new since this has already hit page 4, but I suggest looking into an AUG. The AUG allows all the advantages of a 16” Tavor, with the benefit of being able to turn it into a 20” BBL AUG if you want, in about 5 seconds (30 seconds if you’re slow). I’ve never had a hard time grabbing my AUG. Either by using the integrated scope as a handle (usually), grabbing behind the pistol grip, or using the forward pistol grip. As to accuracy – you can get 2” all day out of an AUG with good ammo, and better with great ammo. As to M4 being just as good – sure, professionals house clear with 14.5” BBL rifles. They also do it in fire teams, with one guy covering the entrance as the other actuates the door. If you are going solo room-to-room and around corners, it’s very (VERY) easy to keep the bullpup in one hand – POINTED LEVEL THROUGH THE DOOR – while the other hand actuates the door knob. Not impossible, but harder to do and less well balanced (i.e. controlled) with an M4 than a bullpup. For configurations <16” BBL, OK sure, that’s getting into Fed Paperwork/exotics that I don’t think the OP is interested in. The nice thing about the AUG is it’s still a real BBL length, and great general use gun he can take and shoot 300 yards with. Just my 2 cents. In truth, a 24” .22 crack shot still beats a baseball bat. Just tried it with a 11.5 inch and it was easy as fuck to open. With a 16" I might have to stretch a little. She must have short arms or was trying to sell something. Oh and you do understand it is the professionals who cleared buildings (via shooting fuckers in the face) that say a bull-pup is retarded and gives no benefit (and a few cons) to an AR? |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 3:52:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Glanced through the thread, and one item I didn't see mentioned is the increased HOB of a Tavor vs. and AR.
If you have a lot of time behind an AR, you will need to retrain yourself for the difference in holdover for close in shooting. This goes for an FS2000, as well. One point in favor of the AUG, is that the HOB is virtually the same as an AR. I personally use an AUG as a bedside gun. Mounting lights and lasers on an AUG can get overly complicated pretty quickly though. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 4:03:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh and you do understand it is the professionals who cleared buildings (via shooting fuckers in the face) that say a bull-pup is retarded and gives no benefit (and a few cons) to an AR? Listen to Professionals? No I need to justify spending $1700 on a rifle alone that is different than an AR. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 4:09:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Never having handled a Tavor, I would look seriously at it for the intended usage. Shorter than a full size AR, full size barrel/ballistics... Hell you could get a suppressor and still possibly come out shorter...
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Posted: 11/9/2015 4:15:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Love my Tavor had it about 2 months now --would not use it for home defense till I get way better with reloads and overall handling. You have to learn a whole new series of movements which means a whole lot of range time etc etc. I figure with an M4 length AR the fact that reloads and stoppage drills are old hat now plus the home turf advantage would be way better than the bullpups advantages.
Just like any new handgun --you wouldn't want to carry it daily till you shoot it a bunch and get thoroughly familiar with it, as some others have pointed out the Tavor is 180deg out from everything You know with an AR. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 4:23:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never having handled a Tavor, I would look seriously at it for the intended usage. Shorter than a full size AR, full size barrel/ballistics... Hell you could get a suppressor and still possibly come out shorter... Yeah you should probably go back through the thread. Some key points: 1- 10.5-11.5 5.56 barrel gives way more than enough performance at HD ranges (and beyond) especially with good ammo selection. Unless your hallway is 300 meters I doubt you would notice the difference between 16inch and a 10.5 inch. 2- Suppressor is nice to have but are most likely not worth the extra length. Just go deaf like a man. 3-For me an HD rifle comes down to ease of use, familiarity, and reliability. Why reinvent the wheel and empty out your wallet for a gun that really doesn't give anything in return? 10.5-11.5 inch pistol AR is perfect for a HD application. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 4:30:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been trying to not die for 33 years now. Lately, I've been thinking it's not fair that I have not given dying a chance. I feel I should try dying at least once so that I can make an informed decision. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are using something that you could potentially be protecting yourself with, you should go with the one that you've trained with. I doubt you'd want to be fumbling around with a rifle when you're trying to not die. I've been trying to not die for 33 years now. Lately, I've been thinking it's not fair that I have not given dying a chance. I feel I should try dying at least once so that I can make an informed decision. 
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Posted: 11/9/2015 4:32:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah you should probably go back through the thread. Some key points: 1- 10.5-11.5 5.56 barrel gives way more than enough performance at HD ranges (and beyond) especially with good ammo selection. Unless your hallway is 300 meters I doubt you would notice the difference between 16inch and a 10.5 inch. 2- Suppressor is nice to have but are most likely not worth the extra length. Just go deaf like a man. 3-For me an HD rifle comes down to ease of use, familiarity, and reliability. Why reinvent the wheel and empty out your wallet for a gun that really doesn't give anything in return? 10.5-11.5 inch pistol AR is perfect for a HD application. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Never having handled a Tavor, I would look seriously at it for the intended usage. Shorter than a full size AR, full size barrel/ballistics... Hell you could get a suppressor and still possibly come out shorter... Yeah you should probably go back through the thread. Some key points: 1- 10.5-11.5 5.56 barrel gives way more than enough performance at HD ranges (and beyond) especially with good ammo selection. Unless your hallway is 300 meters I doubt you would notice the difference between 16inch and a 10.5 inch. 2- Suppressor is nice to have but are most likely not worth the extra length. Just go deaf like a man. 3-For me an HD rifle comes down to ease of use, familiarity, and reliability. Why reinvent the wheel and empty out your wallet for a gun that really doesn't give anything in return? 10.5-11.5 inch pistol AR is perfect for a HD application. Just finished catching up... I admit my ignorance.
ETA: My state allows Tax Stamps, and they are in use. I was just going with what OP said about no SBR in his state. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 5:24:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just finished catching up... I admit my ignorance.
ETA: My state allows Tax Stamps, and they are in use. I was just going with what OP said about no SBR in his state. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Never having handled a Tavor, I would look seriously at it for the intended usage. Shorter than a full size AR, full size barrel/ballistics... Hell you could get a suppressor and still possibly come out shorter... Yeah you should probably go back through the thread. Some key points: 1- 10.5-11.5 5.56 barrel gives way more than enough performance at HD ranges (and beyond) especially with good ammo selection. Unless your hallway is 300 meters I doubt you would notice the difference between 16inch and a 10.5 inch. 2- Suppressor is nice to have but are most likely not worth the extra length. Just go deaf like a man. 3-For me an HD rifle comes down to ease of use, familiarity, and reliability. Why reinvent the wheel and empty out your wallet for a gun that really doesn't give anything in return? 10.5-11.5 inch pistol AR is perfect for a HD application. Just finished catching up... I admit my ignorance.
ETA: My state allows Tax Stamps, and they are in use. I was just going with what OP said about no SBR in his state. In non tax stamp states you can build a pistol AR pretty easily. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 5:33:59 PM EDT
[#34]
I have a 6.8spc pistol ar.
But I've only fired it like 2 times since 2006 |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 5:52:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are going solo room-to-room and around corners, it’s very (VERY) easy to keep the bullpup in one hand – POINTED LEVEL THROUGH THE DOOR – while the other hand actuates the door knob. Not impossible, but harder to do and less well balanced (i.e. controlled) with an M4 than a bullpup. Why are you moving through a structure, solo, with your weapon up? You have no idea if that's a safe direction to point the weapon or not (unless you can see through the door?) not to mention you're flagging your position. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 5:57:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryDog shit I don't know a single person that shoots stock extended fully |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 6:00:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
a tavor in its natural environment, surrounded by bundles of sticks http://tv-presspass.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Capture4.jpg best joke of the day |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 6:40:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No way I'd want a clunky bullpup. I've had a few different kinds and no matter what I go back to the AR. It's easier indoors. Need to switch shoulders instantly to check rooms or various side of you? AR comfortably does that. Left handed? Right handed? aR shoots well for both. There is a reason why 10.5" M4s are so popular. And I doubt it's because tavors are so popular and "rare" The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? Moving that big ass clunky thing from shoulders isn't nearly as quick. If the Tavor is Sooooo great, why do the majority of CQB team use AR pattern rifles? |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 7:04:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah you should probably go back through the thread. Some key points: 1- 10.5-11.5 5.56 barrel gives way more than enough performance at HD ranges (and beyond) especially with good ammo selection. Unless your hallway is 300 meters I doubt you would notice the difference between 16inch and a 10.5 inch. 2- Suppressor is nice to have but are most likely not worth the extra length. Just go deaf like a man. 3-For me an HD rifle comes down to ease of use, familiarity, and reliability. Why reinvent the wheel and empty out your wallet for a gun that really doesn't give anything in return? 10.5-11.5 inch pistol AR is perfect for a HD application. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Never having handled a Tavor, I would look seriously at it for the intended usage. Shorter than a full size AR, full size barrel/ballistics... Hell you could get a suppressor and still possibly come out shorter... Yeah you should probably go back through the thread. Some key points: 1- 10.5-11.5 5.56 barrel gives way more than enough performance at HD ranges (and beyond) especially with good ammo selection. Unless your hallway is 300 meters I doubt you would notice the difference between 16inch and a 10.5 inch. 2- Suppressor is nice to have but are most likely not worth the extra length. Just go deaf like a man. 3-For me an HD rifle comes down to ease of use, familiarity, and reliability. Why reinvent the wheel and empty out your wallet for a gun that really doesn't give anything in return? 10.5-11.5 inch pistol AR is perfect for a HD application. Get both? (Short length & suppressor) IWI X95 with suppressor. 
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Posted: 11/9/2015 7:12:35 PM EDT
[#40]
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Moving that big ass clunky thing from shoulders isn't nearly as quick. If the Tavor is Sooooo great, why do the majority of CQB team use AR pattern rifles? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No way I'd want a clunky bullpup. I've had a few different kinds and no matter what I go back to the AR. It's easier indoors. Need to switch shoulders instantly to check rooms or various side of you? AR comfortably does that. Left handed? Right handed? aR shoots well for both. There is a reason why 10.5" M4s are so popular. And I doubt it's because tavors are so popular and "rare" The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? Moving that big ass clunky thing from shoulders isn't nearly as quick. If the Tavor is Sooooo great, why do the majority of CQB team use AR pattern rifles? Have you used one? Transitioning between shoulders isn't any slower than doing so with an AR. The answer to your second question is cost and familiarity. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 7:32:05 PM EDT
[#41]
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The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No way I'd want a clunky bullpup. I've had a few different kinds and no matter what I go back to the AR. It's easier indoors. Need to switch shoulders instantly to check rooms or various side of you? AR comfortably does that. Left handed? Right handed? aR shoots well for both. There is a reason why 10.5" M4s are so popular. And I doubt it's because tavors are so popular and "rare" The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? That is exactly what I was going to say. For all the hate that bullpups get from people who are scared of change the one thing you certainly cannot hate them for is the ability to quickly and easily switch shoulders if needed. I guarantee you this shitbird's "experience" with bullpups is all youtube and xbox. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 7:43:59 PM EDT
[#42]
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Marines were clearing rooms in Fallujah with 20" M16A4s. Not ideal, for sure, but a 16" AR is just fine for HD. The Soviets cleared rooms in Berlin with 49" long rifles, but that doesn't exactly mean they're a good choice for the job. A 16" AR is my go to because that's what I am most familiar with. |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 7:52:16 PM EDT
[#43]
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That is exactly what I was going to say. For all the hate that bullpups get from people who are scared of change the one thing you certainly cannot hate them for is the ability to quickly and easily switch shoulders if needed. I guarantee you this shitbird's "experience" with bullpups is all youtube and xbox. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No way I'd want a clunky bullpup. I've had a few different kinds and no matter what I go back to the AR. It's easier indoors. Need to switch shoulders instantly to check rooms or various side of you? AR comfortably does that. Left handed? Right handed? aR shoots well for both. There is a reason why 10.5" M4s are so popular. And I doubt it's because tavors are so popular and "rare" The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? That is exactly what I was going to say. For all the hate that bullpups get from people who are scared of change the one thing you certainly cannot hate them for is the ability to quickly and easily switch shoulders if needed. I guarantee you this shitbird's "experience" with bullpups is all youtube and xbox. Yeah totally. I'm a totally shitbird. Never shoot icky guns. Only YouTube and Xbox |
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Posted: 11/9/2015 8:51:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is exactly what I was going to say. For all the hate that bullpups get from people who are scared of change the one thing you certainly cannot hate them for is the ability to quickly and easily switch shoulders if needed. I guarantee you this shitbird's "experience" with bullpups is all youtube and xbox. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No way I'd want a clunky bullpup. I've had a few different kinds and no matter what I go back to the AR. It's easier indoors. Need to switch shoulders instantly to check rooms or various side of you? AR comfortably does that. Left handed? Right handed? aR shoots well for both. There is a reason why 10.5" M4s are so popular. And I doubt it's because tavors are so popular and "rare" The tavor without a doubt works better than an AR when switching shoulders. Especially if you need to reload on your off shoulder. Have you actually ever shot a tavor? That is exactly what I was going to say. For all the hate that bullpups get from people who are scared of change the one thing you certainly cannot hate them for is the ability to quickly and easily switch shoulders if needed. I guarantee you this shitbird's "experience" with bullpups is all youtube and xbox. Because you're a skinny pajama wearing metro sexual that can't hold an AR with one hand. But bullpups are way too massive and heavy for the He-men here to transition shoulders using both hands.
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Posted: 11/9/2015 9:03:24 PM EDT
[#45]
personal attacks
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