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Posted: 4/26/2021 10:00:29 AM EDT
[#1]
the only "solid" alternative to an AR-15 is another better AR-15
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Posted: 4/26/2021 10:06:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the only "solid" alternative to an AR-15 is FIFY.  |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 10:07:42 AM EDT
[#3]
they're not really comparable, so no
bullpups will never be viable alternatives to the ar-15 because of their lack of modularity |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 10:09:29 AM EDT
[#4]
The bullpup concept is awesome on paper. Not so much in practical application.
Reloading sucks. Shooting from “field improvised” rest positions sucks. Trigger sucks, but admittedly can get pretty good if you’re willing to drop the coin. I like my Tavor. It’s fun, it’s cool. It also has about 5 rifles ahead of it on the “depth chart” if I were fighting. |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 11:16:04 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The bullpup concept is awesome on paper. Not so much in practical application. Reloading sucks. No more than any other gun, except for ARs, which has the best reloading config of any rifle out there Shooting from “field improvised” rest positions sucks. I've shot bullpups in plenty of odd positions, never been any more problematic than any other rifle, and easier in some cases. Trigger sucks, but admittedly can get pretty good if you’re willing to drop the coin. Depends on the rifle, some bullpups have good triggers, some do not. The days of all bullpups having bad triggers are long past. I like my Tavor. It’s fun, it’s cool. It also has about 5 rifles ahead of it on the “depth chart” if I were fighting. Bullpups have some significant advantages in certain environments, and I see no reason they wouldn't be comparable to ARs given the 70 years of development that the AR platform has benefited from. Sooner or later, they will eclipse the conventional rifle configuration, as manufacturers design out the weaknesses and improve upon the inherent advantages. |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 11:33:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The bullpup concept is awesome on paper. Not so much in practical application. Reloading sucks. Shooting from “field improvised” rest positions sucks. Trigger sucks, but admittedly can get pretty good if you’re willing to drop the coin. I like my Tavor. It’s fun, it’s cool. It also has about 5 rifles ahead of it on the “depth chart” if I were fighting. I can reload my X95 about as fast as my AR, I'll have to break out the timer and test it though. Mag release is very similar to AR so it's not much to go from AR to the X95 in my opinion, it's a very similar motion switching between the two. From prone I would say is slightly awkward but not that bad and the trigger isn't horrible, but definitely not as nice as the Larue on my AR. |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 11:39:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullpups have some significant advantages in certain environments, and I see no reason they wouldn't be comparable to ARs given the 70 years of development that the AR platform has benefited from. Sooner or later, they will eclipse the conventional rifle configuration, as manufacturers design out the weaknesses and improve upon the inherent advantages. The bullpup concept has literally had longer to develop than the AR15. It’s a dead end, and damn near everyone has figured that out now. |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 12:07:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The bullpup concept has literally had longer to develop than the AR15. It’s a dead end, and damn near everyone has figured that out now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bullpups have some significant advantages in certain environments, and I see no reason they wouldn't be comparable to ARs given the 70 years of development that the AR platform has benefited from. Sooner or later, they will eclipse the conventional rifle configuration, as manufacturers design out the weaknesses and improve upon the inherent advantages. The bullpup concept has literally had longer to develop than the AR15. It’s a dead end, and damn near everyone has figured that out now. I was going to post a reasoned response, but then I remembered this thread is in GD, so  Attached File
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Posted: 4/26/2021 12:16:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good luck finding a G trigger, I have been looking for months. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've got two stage triggers in all my AR's for whatever reason, just found them to be very nice. The stock trigger isn't too bad honestly but if I see a trigger in stock I might just FO... I'll check out the G, thanks! Good luck finding a G trigger, I have been looking for months. Put up a wtb over at bullpup forums. I just got a Tav-d for 300 just by asking around |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 1:24:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah shit, I thought he had both. I would ask him when he expects to have them anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just so you know Ramy has not designed a X95 rail. Yet. Just for the SAR (and ACR). Ah shit, I thought he had both. I would ask him when he expects to have them anyway. 
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Posted: 4/26/2021 1:33:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put up a wtb over at bullpup forums. I just got a Tav-d for 300 just by asking around To add, don't dismiss the TAV-D, either. It's just as good as the Geissele trigger. It's a little different in feel, though - it feels more like a really nice M1 Garand or M-14 trigger. |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 1:39:26 PM EDT
[#12]
While I like the slight rear weight bias a pup allows to include overall weight and length, I cannot overcome my fear of a kaboom so close in proximity to my face, the mag change, or the vast amount of support AR pattern firearms have. Loved the RDB I had but to let it go.
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Posted: 4/26/2021 2:49:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Myself and several others ask him pretty much weekly Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just so you know Ramy has not designed a X95 rail. Yet. Just for the SAR (and ACR). Ah shit, I thought he had both. I would ask him when he expects to have them anyway. Have you seen the new Manticore forend: 
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Posted: 4/26/2021 2:56:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But the reality is, any self-loading rifle fielded in the last 70 years is going to be approximately as capable at putting holes in the thug 5 yards away in your living room in the middle of the night, as any other rifle. Your rifle choice is going to matter way less than factors such as, your own practice and preparedness to use the weapon in times of stress, and the circumstances of the situation, e.g. you're in the kitchen getting milk in the middle of the night and the bad guy is breaking into your bedroom where your nightstand gun is. Or, you're sitting on the shitter when you hear a break in. etc. etc. This is the answer. The minor accuracy differences etc won't matter at across the room distances for home defense. |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 2:58:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What agency issues the X95? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's one agency near me who issues the Tavor X95 instead of an AR. Their officers hate them and have found them to be finicky, needing to be run very wet to avoid issues. Not sure if that's related to the heat and dust here, but that's what they told me. I've not used one and know lots of people love theirs. I was honestly surprised when I asked an officer how he was liking the X95. What agency issues the X95? Goodyear PD. And for an optic, they use a Vortex Sparc. Strange choice all around. @FightingHellfish |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 3:17:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the answer. The minor accuracy differences etc won't matter at across the room distances for home defense. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But the reality is, any self-loading rifle fielded in the last 70 years is going to be approximately as capable at putting holes in the thug 5 yards away in your living room in the middle of the night, as any other rifle. Your rifle choice is going to matter way less than factors such as, your own practice and preparedness to use the weapon in times of stress, and the circumstances of the situation, e.g. you're in the kitchen getting milk in the middle of the night and the bad guy is breaking into your bedroom where your nightstand gun is. Or, you're sitting on the shitter when you hear a break in. etc. etc. This is the answer. The minor accuracy differences etc won't matter at across the room distances for home defense. So sublime triggers, improved forends, 1000 lumen lights and expensive optics are meaningless too? (Sarcasm for those without a detector) |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 3:37:05 PM EDT
[#17]
MDR-X > X95 > AK > keltec > AR
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Posted: 4/26/2021 3:40:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you seen the new Manticore forend: https://i0.wp.com/manticorearms.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/x95-polymer-5-edit.jpg?fit=2016%2C1512&ssl=1 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just so you know Ramy has not designed a X95 rail. Yet. Just for the SAR (and ACR). Ah shit, I thought he had both. I would ask him when he expects to have them anyway. Have you seen the new Manticore forend: https://i0.wp.com/manticorearms.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/x95-polymer-5-edit.jpg?fit=2016%2C1512&ssl=1 |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 4:45:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MDR-X > X95 > AK > keltec > AR No... |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 5:06:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While I like the slight rear weight bias a pup allows to include overall weight and length, I cannot overcome my fear of a kaboom so close in proximity to my face, the mag change, or the vast amount of support AR pattern firearms have. Loved the RDB I had but to let it go. I wouldn't worry about the kaboom too much. Saw a video of someone kabooming their SAR with a 300BO. No injury. It was BANG, and they threw the rifle down. |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 6:24:17 PM EDT
[#21]
You certainly cannot deny that Tavor owners know about and accept the poor accuracy these $1600 guns they have...
I'll take a gun that is accurate both up close and at distance......  |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 8:55:40 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 4/26/2021 9:52:49 PM EDT
[#23]
This fucking thread made me bid on an X95 fuck it, and I already have a Tavor
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Posted: 4/26/2021 11:06:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This fucking thread made me bid on an X95 fuck it, and I already have a Tavor 
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Posted: 4/27/2021 12:31:05 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This fucking thread made me bid on an X95 fuck it, and I already have a Tavor I prefer the SAR. Best 5-shot groups are 1.25 MOA with FGMM. Good enough out to 300 yards with an RDS. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 6:43:14 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This fucking thread made me bid on an X95 fuck it, and I already have a Tavor You'll enjoy the X95, it's a great gun.
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Posted: 4/27/2021 8:30:11 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'll enjoy the X95, it's a great gun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This fucking thread made me bid on an X95 fuck it, and I already have a Tavor You'll enjoy the X95, it's a great gun. No, it's not. It's a mediocre rifle that can be made into a less mediocre rifle with a bunch of expensive aftermarket parts. Its only saving grace is the location of the mag eject button. There are way better bullpups for the money. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 5:09:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, it's not. It's a mediocre rifle that can be made into a less mediocre rifle with a bunch of expensive aftermarket parts. Its only saving grace is the location of the mag eject button. There are way better bullpups for the money.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 8:01:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No, it's not. It's a mediocre rifle that can be made into a less mediocre rifle with a bunch of expensive aftermarket parts. Its only saving grace is the location of the mag eject button. There are way better bullpups for the money.  I'd tell you to search the bullpup forum for my posts, but they've removed user names from all of the archived stuff. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 8:46:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Alright, so I have both and just from a practical point it would seem that in a lot of ways the X95 is superior as a self defense rifle. Obviously they're apples and oranges in comparison but if I were in a home defense scenario I'd probably go for the X95 before my AR. What say the hive? "Home defense scenario" is a really arbitrary, but hard to define situation - however the attributes of either rifle aren't really relevant for shooting some crackhead breaking into your home. Meanwhile, in general, any other advantage the X95 has over an AR - and remember, accuracy is not one of them - is totally outweighed by logistics and cost concerns. If you want to be a gun hipster or a collector and have a neat rifle that is different just for the sake of being different, that's fine, but coming up with justifications is sort of a waste of time. Would I love an X95? Sure. Is there a solid source of parts for it - or for just about any other non-AR 5.56 rifle? Hell no (maybe the AUG, if you're willing to throw money at it) |
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Posted: 4/28/2021 11:53:49 AM EDT
[#31]
I put Israeli guns in the same Turkish/Chinese barrel. They may be good guns I just don't want to give them any money. Israel can go fuck off.
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Posted: 4/28/2021 8:08:25 PM EDT
[#32]
This feels like old-timey Arfcom GD with the Colt vs. Bushmaster dick measuring contests
If you like an AR-15 - enjoy If you lie an X95 - enjoy If you like an AUG - enjoy All I know is when I go to the range people want to touch and shoot our AUG and I usually find something cool on their table to try out. I say "shoot all of the things" and enjoy the brotherhood at the range. To stay on topic sort of I did have the chance to play with an X95 SBR and was really impressed with it. So much so it is on my short list for next NFA Purchase
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Posted: 4/28/2021 8:17:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, it's not. It's a mediocre rifle that can be made into a less mediocre rifle with a bunch of expensive aftermarket parts. Its only saving grace is the location of the mag eject button. There are way better bullpups for the money. Did you interrupt your chess game with your fellow Autists to post this? |
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Posted: 4/29/2021 8:29:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you interrupt your chess game with your fellow Autists to post this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No, it's not. It's a mediocre rifle that can be made into a less mediocre rifle with a bunch of expensive aftermarket parts. Its only saving grace is the location of the mag eject button. There are way better bullpups for the money. Did you interrupt your chess game with your fellow Autists to post this? Is that supposed to be some kind of witty put down? 
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Posted: 4/29/2021 8:50:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Had a SAR. Traded it away.
Meh. |
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Posted: 5/1/2021 2:53:07 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody wants to address this. It's what's always held me back as well. 5" groups out of a $1700 gun is hard to swallow. an IWI factory offering, or even an aftermarket barrel, something like how the SOCOM is for the AR-15 M4, would be just right for the American shooter market. But that brings up the underlying advantage of the AR-15, modularity and aftermarket support. granted, it's not needed for IDF requirements, and might make the Tavor front-heavy? |
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Posted: 5/1/2021 5:59:00 AM EDT
[#37]
I have an X95 and like it. Is it my favourite rifle? No but it's top five.
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Posted: 5/1/2021 6:43:09 PM EDT
[#38]
I just did training today with the X95 and I enjoyed it, getting used to the trigger was a bit of a challenge but not definitely not impossible.
Grouping wasn't a big deal as all of our engagements were within 100ft. It does get a bit weighty after a few hours, probably a small shoulder pad would help a lot on that. Other than that it performed well and I was pretty happy with it. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 8:01:06 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just did training today with the X95 and I enjoyed it, getting used to the trigger was a bit of a challenge but not definitely not impossible. Grouping wasn't a big deal as all of our engagements were within 100ft. It does get a bit weighty after a few hours, probably a small shoulder pad would help a lot on that. Other than that it performed well and I was pretty happy with it. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 3:58:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Check out the Manticore Arms curved buttpad. Does it really make that much of a difference? The stock one doesn't seem too bad. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 6:20:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does it really make that much of a difference? The stock one doesn't seem too bad. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Check out the Manticore Arms curved buttpad. Does it really make that much of a difference? The stock one doesn't seem too bad. It made more of a difference to me with the SAR than it did on the X95. I went back to stock on my X95 and feels better with body armor on as well. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 6:26:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Still on my want list.
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