[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Best Dry Fire Simulator? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/14/2024 1:10:49 PM EDT
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We got a chance to get our hands on the Ace Virtual Training System a few weeks ago. While I was skeptical at first, after running a handful of stages I was sold. While I have many tools for making dry fire better including the Mantis X, the Coolfire Trainer, and DryFire Mag they tend to not get used as often as they should. While that's on me, a dry fire system that you're not using doesn't help you. Enter the ACE! This thing is a blast and I think we've shot around 35,000 rounds in the Ace so far. The system works with the Meta Quest and the app requires a subscription, plus you'll want to pick their controller (pistol). There are currently two handsets available, one is a 320ish build and the other a Staccato. We had the Staccato in our review video below, but I've gotten to play with both. Both handsets are weighted so it feels as though you have a real firearm in your hand when using the system and I believe the Staccato is within 1 ounce of the real pistol. With the company local to us in DFW we had Conor the Co-Founder of ACE come into the studio to talk about it. Check it out below!  Best Dry Fire Simulator?! | Get Better & Save Money w/ ACE Virtual Shooting System! Other notable items:
The Staccato Handset  Casting to screen  Current round count and cost savings  The Hut where you can pick your pistol/optic combo  |
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My first instinct is to complain about the cost, but then I look at ammo prices and this starts looking better and better.... I particularly appreciated the discussion on using this as a firearms safety tool. Teach newbies not to flag me when the hit a target and turn around to talk to me about it. Lots of cool use-cases here. |
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Quoted: The Sim systems have been around for quite a while, the price should be coming down on them by now. If I recall correctly the Sim system that was in the range I was at was up like $60,000 but this is also 2016. We have one at the local range next to the studio, but the Ace is actually more immersive (spatial audio and 360) and comes in at a fraction of the cost. Meta Quest plus Ace sets you back around $700. |
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Probably SUPER WORTH IT if you are super concerned about your scores. I do mostly rifle competition training when I’m at the range. I do NOT use my time at the range efficiently. I still do this shooting thing a lot. But I am at the point where I enjoy just WASTING TIME at the range at least as much as I enjoy TRAINING at the range. I’m sure my scores would improve if I got one of these jazzy new video systems. How I would hate having to fire that thing up in the basement every day. Good for you guys who truly love it. |
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I enjoyed Crackshot and it worked extremely well. It has a version for augmented reality using targets you define and a version you cast to a projector. However the app hasn't had an update since 2022. It always worked amazingly well for me with a red laser cartridge and needed very little calibration. The new Ace thing looks good but that model is stupidly steep, even if it is good. Maybe doable if you already have the headset. Virtra Sims with cool fire style blowback systems are awesome and work great. If I ever win a billion dollars on the lottery I'll put a wraparound one in the basement. |
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Quoted: Since it's not in the video or OP, the subscription costs $19/mo or $168/yr (they have a 20% mil/first responder discount) The physical guns, aka "handsets", are $199 Considering what I have into a Blackbeard, pistol laser cartridge setup, targets, stands, and tripod to run Laser Academy to it's fullest the cost isn't terribly out of line, especially to people that already have $5000+ into their competition rigs. |
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I bought a mantis with the intent of using the dryfire system on a projector. Abandoned the idea quick. Zeroing is an issue. Every time I throw it in I have to rezero the laser. You also have to zero your optic to the laser. It’s worthless in daylight across my yard. The casing on mine started breaking and separating almost immediately. They will only replace it once it stops being able to be zero’d. You can outrun the reset easy if you have a good trigger. The battery takes no joke, days to charge. The reset slows down pretty fast as it drains too, making the issue above more pronounced. On clean chrome bores I got some weird reflection distortion. Didn’t happen on my nitride guns. It’s great for new shooters. It’s also good for splits from resting. If you want to use it like a duck hunt type thing, it’s pretty mediocre. For a few hundred bucks it’s good fun. If you’re a somewhat experienced shooter I think a 22 conversion kit is the better buy. |
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Quoted: What is the total cost of everything? What all is needed? You need a Meta Quest 2 or 3. The 2 runs from $200 to $300 depending on the on board storage, the 3 is $450. You need a gun handset which is $199. You then need an app subscription, at $14/MO on the annual plan and $19/MO billed monthly. |
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Quoted: It's part of the deal. I don't know anyone that actually enjoys it but people that consider it beneath them are typically the reason USPSA has the reputation it does. Well, if nobody tapes or resets, you’ll be there all day. If there’s a technological solution to that, I’m all for it: |
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Quoted: Fast forward some years and I would love to see this be the actual match. No more resetting. Haha. They do run weekly matches on their discord. Not sure if the details, but I know it's a thing. The lack of reseting makes it pretty easy to break a sweat. When it's less than a second to reset a stage and go again you can get your heart up. |
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Quoted: It's part of the deal. I don't know anyone that actually enjoys it but people that consider it beneath them are typically the reason USPSA has the reputation it does. You're not wrong there. The Last match I shot, I was the only guy resetting after I just shot. The RO got pissed and yelled at evryone. Most matches (various ranges) only half of the squad resets consistently (if that). |
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Quoted: You're not wrong there. The Last match I shot, I was the only guy resetting after I just shot. The RO got pissed and yelled at evryone. Most matches (various ranges) only half of the squad resets consistently (if that). This is the only competitive sport that I know where the participants have to reset the playing field every iteration, even at the 'pro' level. |
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I’m keeping an eye out for a old duck hunt video game with the shotgun toy Gut the “gun” and put the guts in a AR upper with a fake barrel and solenoid to punch the bolt carrier to cycle the “weapon” Good use for an old crt TV With some reading there are mods to make the gun work with the LCD TVS now |
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Quoted: I'm keeping an eye out for a old duck hunt video game with the shotgun toy Gut the "gun" and put the guts in a AR upper with a fake barrel and solenoid to punch the bolt carrier to cycle the "weapon" Good use for an old crt TV With some reading there are mods to make the gun work with the LCD TVS now Lol that'd be cool |
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Quoted: Lol that'd be cool Quoted: Quoted: I'm keeping an eye out for a old duck hunt video game with the shotgun toy Gut the "gun" and put the guts in a AR upper with a fake barrel and solenoid to punch the bolt carrier to cycle the "weapon" Good use for an old crt TV With some reading there are mods to make the gun work with the LCD TVS now Lol that'd be cool https://www.sindenshop.com/en-us this lets you play it on an lcd. I bought 2 of them so I could play the old lethal enforcers with both hands. |
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Quoted: We got a chance to get our hands on the Ace Virtual Training System a few weeks ago. While I was skeptical at first, after running a handful of stages I was sold. While I have many tools for making dry fire better including the Mantis X, the Coolfire Trainer, and DryFire Mag they tend to not get used as often as they should. While that's on me, a dry fire system that you're not using doesn't help you. Enter the ACE! This thing is a blast and I think we've shot around 35,000 rounds in the Ace so far. The system works with the Meta Quest and the app requires a subscription, plus you'll want to pick their controller (pistol). There are currently two handsets available, one is a 320ish build and the other a Staccato. We had the Staccato in our review video below, but I've gotten to play with both. Both handsets are weighted so it feels as though you have a real firearm in your hand when using the system and I believe the Staccato is within 1 ounce of the real pistol. With the company local to us in DFW we had Conor the Co-Founder of ACE come into the studio to talk about it. Check it out below!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzvzWBPrTmcOther notable items:
The Staccato Handset https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77030/Screenshot_2024-06-14_120157-3240626.png Casting to screen https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77030/Screenshot_2024-06-14_120306-3240627.png Current round count and cost savings https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77030/Screenshot_2024-06-14_120429-3240629.png The Hut where you can pick your pistol/optic combo https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77030/Screenshot_2024-06-14_120328-3240630.png So how well does it translate to range shooting, since there is no recoil I assume? Also what is the directional accuracy i.e. is it actually accurate enough to shoot a group? |
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Quoted: So how well does it translate to range shooting, since there is no recoil I assume? Also what is the directional accuracy i.e. is it actually accurate enough to shoot a group? Wouldn't this be just as effective as dry fire but just short of live fire? There might be a time soon when someone in a restricted country uses this unit for their daily and weekly practice and then comes to the US and wins a major tournament with loaner gear, much like that Japanese guy used to do with steel challenge. |
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Quoted: So how well does it translate to range shooting, since there is no recoil I assume? Also what is the directional accuracy i.e. is it actually accurate enough to shoot a group? Correct, no recoil. That said tracking dots, working on transitions, dynamic drills (Texas trees, swingers, etc) are fairly accurate. It is accurate enough to shoot a group and they have training stages which will actively show hits out to 35 yards. There's a Tim Herron head box A zone drill that can be tough. It's easy to drop a shot, even without recoil. I'll upload some examples tomorrow. |
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Quoted: got my ship conformation it will be here tomorrow. I went with the 365 clone, since I shoot striker fired. cant wait to try it. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CSY8PD63?ref=emc_p_m_5_i_atc |
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Quoted: The subscription model is a cash grab that I cannot support. I don’t mind buying the app and buying updates, but I am not going to keep paying for the same app every month. While I agree how much is a box of 9mm right now? .25 cpr? I was thinking about going gun shopping today, but now I'm seriously considering going all in on this. Anybody have an idea on the differences in the version 2 and 3 headsets? Any rumors of Ace releasing an AR handset? |
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Quoted: While I agree how much is a box of 9mm right now? .25 cpr? I was thinking about going gun shopping today, but now I'm seriously considering going all in on this. Anybody have an idea on the differences in the version 2 and 3 headsets? Any rumors of Ace releasing an AR handset? If the training value was similar to live ammo, I could somewhat get behind that logic, but I have my doubts. |
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Quoted: If the training value was similar to live ammo, I could somewhat get behind that logic, but I have my doubts. |
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Quoted: While I agree how much is a box of 9mm right now? .25 cpr? I was thinking about going gun shopping today, but now I'm seriously considering going all in on this. Anybody have an idea on the differences in the version 2 and 3 headsets? Any rumors of Ace releasing an AR handset? I don't have any time with the Meta Quest 2, but the 3 is a pretty decent jump in performance (resolution, refresh, and glass). Plus it has passthrough which has been great when I'm getting too spicy on the movement drills. That said the 2 is much cheaper. As far as an AR handset, it's not currently on the horizon. I asked when Connor was in the studio. 
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Quoted: The subscription model is a cash grab that I cannot support. I don’t mind buying the app and buying updates, but I am not going to keep paying for the same app every month. Yeah, thats a major turn off for me. Charge me more for the app, but fuck subscriptions. Q2 vs Q3... That is the question. I wonder if they plan on moving to other headsets that I might own. |
Accuracy from the Skills tier is below. It's fairly easy to get shots on it, but if you're jerking the trigger at distance you'll miss. I throw a couple of shots toward the end. When you miss the target moves back 5 yards. Failed To Load Title Here's a basic transitions drill from the Skill tier. I think there is value in this regardless of recoil. Your eyes are still transitioning to the target and you're bringing the gun to that spot. I typically favor left to right and when I hit the range with the boys and run some stages, I don't end up going the other way because I know I'm faster left to right. I've started running this right to left daily and it doesn't cost me a dime   Failed To Load Title It may not have been obvious in the main video so here I shoot a few plate racks to show the dot moving.  Failed To Load Title Finally here are a few stages with dynamic targets. You can't shoot these kinds of setups with regular dry fire. I shoot a couple of the stages in different ways. It ends on their SHOT Show stage which I originally was going to include in the dot tracking clip but forgot, so I threw it in here to illustrate how easily you can restart stages with no reset time!  Failed To Load Title |
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I can’t see VR as a good tool for marksmanship training because physical aiming and virtual aiming are never going to be precisely calibrated to one another. Imagine the training artifact from 50,000 reps with your physical POA 50moa low for example. Under the hood you have no idea where you’re *realy* aiming. Better to use a SIM with a projected image you actually aim at instead of decoupling your eye-sight from your aim. |