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Link Posted: 9/15/2024 4:04:06 PM EST
[#1]
Why the fuck would you risk your grandchildren in an overloaded plane let alone an overloaded plane in those conditions.

Idiots
Link Posted: 9/15/2024 4:06:26 PM EST
[#2]
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Quoted:
Why the fuck would you risk your grandchildren in an overloaded plane let alone an overloaded plane in those conditions.

Idiots
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People are stupid and think pilots are super heroes and planes are magic.
Link Posted: 9/15/2024 7:10:40 PM EST
[#3]
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Quoted:

It's podunkville.

What ground operations would that be?

If you're lucky, the same guy who runs the restaurant, monitors the radio and can give you weather and runway.
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Ya, or it could just be a windsock, a few lights, and a tank of ave gas at the end of a frequently mowed alfalfa field
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 5:58:11 AM EST
[#4]
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Quoted:
I've shut down the airport via NOTAM, had the tower notify the pilot of this over ground to have it on record and watch planes take off with us directing ARFF to standby until they are wheels up.

Ultimately, the PIC is the PIC.
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Quoted:
Quoted:



Why didn't airport manager just tell them the airport closed? Conditions were so bad there's no way I would have allowed them to take off. They couldn't even get the ice off the tail of the airplane.
I've shut down the airport via NOTAM, had the tower notify the pilot of this over ground to have it on record and watch planes take off with us directing ARFF to standby until they are wheels up.

Ultimately, the PIC is the PIC.


We were taking the runway with a full MD-88 at a relatively small airport down south. Got on the runway cleared for takeoff and the wind suddenly picked up and went to 46 knots crosswind from frontal passage. We cancelled the takeoff clearance and told tower we needed to clear the runway and did. We were working on getting the numbers for the cross runway to takeoff with a headwind instead.

A Cessna 172 called ready for takeoff. Tower gave him the 46 knot crosswind winds. he said ready for takeoff. Tower asked for acknowledgement that he heard the 46 knot cross wind call. He said " yes I acknowledge the cross winds, ready for takeoff". Tower asked if he wanted the cross runway for a headwind takeoff. He said no. Tower cleared him on the runway and said " that MD-88 just taxied off the runway because the crosswinds are out of limits do you still want to take off?"  Guy answered yes. Tower gave him clearance, we both watched as he pushed up the power, released brakes, went about 100 feet and did a 90 left off the runway into the grass at full power nose wheel collapsed and the full power prop dug into the dirt. I don't think I ever laughed so hard. The world is full of idiots.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 6:08:16 AM EST
[#5]
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Quoted:
Why the fuck would you risk your grandchildren in an overloaded plane let alone an overloaded plane in those conditions.

Idiots
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Get there itis has killed numerous pilots.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 6:21:44 AM EST
[#6]
I watched that last night. Sad.

Moron pilot should have known better, and especially with that much time in type. Another arrogant and assumed rich dude with poor decision making skills. Killed his whole fucking family.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 6:55:08 AM EST
[#7]
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Quoted:



Really? How does a pilot override ground operations?
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There are lots of regs in aviation but the bottom line is that nobody is coming to save you. Especially if part 91.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 7:45:01 AM EST
[#8]
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Quoted:


We were taking the runway with a full MD-88 at a relatively small airport down south. Got on the runway cleared for takeoff and the wind suddenly picked up and went to 46 knots crosswind from frontal passage. We cancelled the takeoff clearance and told tower we needed to clear the runway and did. We were working on getting the numbers for the cross runway to takeoff with a headwind instead.

A Cessna 172 called ready for takeoff. Tower gave him the 46 knot crosswind winds. he said ready for takeoff. Tower asked for acknowledgement that he heard the 46 knot cross wind call. He said " yes I acknowledge the cross winds, ready for takeoff". Tower asked if he wanted the cross runway for a headwind takeoff. He said no. Tower cleared him on the runway and said " that MD-88 just taxied off the runway because the crosswinds are out of limits do you still want to take off?"  Guy answered yes. Tower gave him clearance, we both watched as he pushed up the power, released brakes, went about 100 feet and did a 90 left off the runway into the grass at full power nose wheel collapsed and the full power prop dug into the dirt. I don't think I ever laughed so hard. The world is full of idiots.
View Quote

Link Posted: 9/16/2024 8:05:45 AM EST
[#9]
My dad knew all of these guys.

Sometimes even good pilots make really bad decisions


(Challenger 604 crash in Birmingham UK, 2002).

The Air Accidents Investigation Branch of the UK’s Department of Transport implicated jet lag and over-the-counter drugs in the crash of Bombardier Challenger 604 N90AG, in Birmingham, England, on Jan. 4, 2002. The failure of the impaired crew, which had taken antihistamines the night before, to have the airplane de-iced before takeoff may have caused the jet’s stall, roll to the left and crash on takeoff, concluded the DoT. The aircraft was destroyed and there were no survivors. Operated and maintained by Epps Air Service, N90AG was owned by Fleet National Bank and leased to Agco.


The day before the crash, the crew’s tour of duty started at Dekalb-Peachtree Airport in Atlanta at 4 a.m. (9 a.m. Birmingham time). They flew to Fort Myers Airport, Fla. for a 25-minute stop to pick up a passenger, then flew to West Palm Beach Airport (PBI) to pick up another passenger. After a 29-minute stop, the aircraft left PBI at 12:59 Zulu and arrived at Birmingham at 8:39 p.m. (3:39 p.m. in Atlanta).


The Epps Air Service crew consisted of the commander, designated as pilot in command but who flew right seat, and the handling pilot, in the left seat, who was one of four company captains qualified on the Challenger. Both had worked for Epps since 1968 and the PIC was the director of operations. Another company pilot, who was not qualified in the Challenger 604, was on the trip to observe the transatlantic experience.


The airplane sat outside overnight. There was no precipitation but the air temperature remained below zero all night and Birmingham Airport was under a severe frost, which had improved to moderate by the time of the accident. The crew stayed at a local hotel, had dinner, accompanied by about “five units of alcohol,” between 9:44 p.m. and 11:15 p.m., and retired after that (approximately 6 p.m. in Atlanta, a 14-hour day). The left-seat pilot made a telephone call at 2 a.m. Both the left-seat pilot and the PIC took an over-the-counter antihistamine containing diphenhydramine, an ingredient in Excedrin PM and Nytol. The accident investigators could not determine whether the pilots took the medication because both had colds or to overcome jet lag.


OTC Drugs Impair Pilots’ Judgment
At approximately 10:40 the next morning, the left-seat pilot and the observer pilot arrived at the aircraft, and they started the APU about 10 minutes later. The commander arrived at approximately 11 a.m. Each crewmember independently inspected the exterior of the aircraft. Refueling took 35 minutes, ending at about 11:40 a.m. The two passengers who had flown over on the airplane the day before boarded.


During the morning, witnesses had seen frost/ice on the wing surfaces of N90AG, and other aircraft, with severe to moderate ice accumulation, had been de-iced. The captain of a Canadair CRJ that had been parked near N90AG decided at about 10:30 a.m. that the CRJ needed de-icing; the frost was some one to two millimeters thick over the aircraft surfaces. The crew of N90AG discussed the presence of frost on the leading edge before engine start, but neither pilot requested de-icing and N90AG was not de-iced. The left-seat pilot was vague on the subject of the ice and it was not mentioned again. The DoT considered it highly unusual that the pilots would not have discussed and agreed upon a solution to the frost situation.


Heat from the APU exhaust gas may have reduced, eliminated or smoothed the frost on the right wing, resulting in an asymmetric condition that accentuated the tendency for the left wing to stall first. The Birmingham weather report at 11:50 a.m. was surface wind 150 degrees at six knots, visibility 8,000 meters (approximately five miles), cloud scattered at 700 feet agl and broken at 800 feet agl, temperature -2 degrees C with dew point -3 degrees C. The crew started the engines, and at 12:01 p.m. the airplane was cleared to taxi to Runway 15.


Takeoff appeared normal until liftoff. Immediately after liftoff, the aircraft started to bank to the left. The left winglet contacted the runway shoulder around 3.5 seconds after liftoff, with the aircraft banked around 80 degrees left. The aircraft struck the ground, inverted, adjacent to the runway.


Although investigators could not be sure exactly where the passengers and observer pilot were seated, they determined that the aircraft would have been within the originally certified normal weight and c.g. limits for takeoff. The estimated takeoff weight would have been 47,836 pounds, within mtow limits.


Although the left-seat pilot reacted well to the uncontrolled roll, displaying a high level of motor skills, said the report, both pilots showed some deficiencies in judgment and concentration in the period between arriving at the aircraft and the takeoff roll. Both exhibited symptoms of decreased concentration and judgment and it was possible that the combination of jet lag, tiredness and the effects of diphenhydramine caused these symptoms. The effects of each combined to impair the ability of the pilots to deal with the situation they faced.


Studies at the University of Iowa compared diphenhydramine with alcohol in a driving simulator. The performance of the participants was poorest after they took diphenhydramine, indicating that the drug had a greater effect on driving than alcohol. The report also noted that nonprescription drugs were found in 18 percent of the pilots killed in flying accidents in the U.S. between 1994 and 1998. Of these, diphenhydramine, found on 54 occasions, was the most common drug.


The report recommended that the UK Civil Aviation Authority require flight manuals of aircraft with a significant susceptibility to ice contamination to say: “Wings and tail surfaces must be completely clear of snow, ice and frost prior to takeoff,” and communicate this recommendation to other civil airworthiness authorities responsible for the primary type certification of new aircraft.


The report also recommended that the FAA and EASA review the current procedural approach to the pre-takeoff detection and elimination of airframe ice contamination and consider requiring a system that would directly monitor aircraft aerodynamic surfaces for ice contamination and warn the crew of a potentially hazardous condition.


In addition, the report recommended that the FAA act upon the January 2000 NTSB recommendations to review the guidance given to flight crews about the dangers of using non-prescription medication and to ensure that medication packaging contains appropriate warnings about possible side effects.
The fact that two experienced and safety-conscious pilots used medication containing diphenhydramine indicated to the investigators that crews may not be sufficiently aware of the potential dangers of using nonprescription medications.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 7:42:46 PM EST
[#10]
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Quoted:


There are lots of regs in aviation but the bottom line is that nobody is coming to save you. Especially if part 91.
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Quoted:
Quoted:



Really? How does a pilot override ground operations?


There are lots of regs in aviation but the bottom line is that nobody is coming to save you. Especially if part 91.


Did some reading of the FAR when I attempted my skydiving license.  I was amused by two realizations.  First, every safely thing had an exemption for military operations, and second, everything was about not hurting those on the ground.  If you killed yourself, whatever, just don't include the unwilling in your death.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 8:12:15 PM EST
[#11]
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Quoted:


We were taking the runway with a full MD-88 at a relatively small airport down south. Got on the runway cleared for takeoff and the wind suddenly picked up and went to 46 knots crosswind from frontal passage. We cancelled the takeoff clearance and told tower we needed to clear the runway and did. We were working on getting the numbers for the cross runway to takeoff with a headwind instead.

A Cessna 172 called ready for takeoff. Tower gave him the 46 knot crosswind winds. he said ready for takeoff. Tower asked for acknowledgement that he heard the 46 knot cross wind call. He said " yes I acknowledge the cross winds, ready for takeoff". Tower asked if he wanted the cross runway for a headwind takeoff. He said no. Tower cleared him on the runway and said " that MD-88 just taxied off the runway because the crosswinds are out of limits do you still want to take off?"  Guy answered yes. Tower gave him clearance, we both watched as he pushed up the power, released brakes, went about 100 feet and did a 90 left off the runway into the grass at full power nose wheel collapsed and the full power prop dug into the dirt. I don't think I ever laughed so hard. The world is full of idiots.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



Why didn't airport manager just tell them the airport closed? Conditions were so bad there's no way I would have allowed them to take off. They couldn't even get the ice off the tail of the airplane.
I've shut down the airport via NOTAM, had the tower notify the pilot of this over ground to have it on record and watch planes take off with us directing ARFF to standby until they are wheels up.

Ultimately, the PIC is the PIC.


We were taking the runway with a full MD-88 at a relatively small airport down south. Got on the runway cleared for takeoff and the wind suddenly picked up and went to 46 knots crosswind from frontal passage. We cancelled the takeoff clearance and told tower we needed to clear the runway and did. We were working on getting the numbers for the cross runway to takeoff with a headwind instead.

A Cessna 172 called ready for takeoff. Tower gave him the 46 knot crosswind winds. he said ready for takeoff. Tower asked for acknowledgement that he heard the 46 knot cross wind call. He said " yes I acknowledge the cross winds, ready for takeoff". Tower asked if he wanted the cross runway for a headwind takeoff. He said no. Tower cleared him on the runway and said " that MD-88 just taxied off the runway because the crosswinds are out of limits do you still want to take off?"  Guy answered yes. Tower gave him clearance, we both watched as he pushed up the power, released brakes, went about 100 feet and did a 90 left off the runway into the grass at full power nose wheel collapsed and the full power prop dug into the dirt. I don't think I ever laughed so hard. The world is full of idiots.



Wow.
Max is 15 for the 172.    I’ve never understood why some pilots want to push against every bit of training they’ve had.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 8:15:31 PM EST
[#12]
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Quoted:



Wow.
Max is 15 for the 172.    I’ve never understood why some pilots want to push against every bit of training they’ve had.
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That is the maximum demonstrated…. Not an operating limitation.

I’m not saying go try it in a 40 knot direct but I’ve landed in a crosswind exceeding the demonstrated max.  I also had a 150-foot wide runway as well.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 8:28:59 PM EST
[#13]
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Quoted:
not sure why anyone thinks it's clickbait.  crash happened.  people died.  Hoover is pretty good at summarizing crashes, I've watched his videos before.  

if someone is getting panties in a bind because the thread title doesn't include "in 2019"...

lighten up Francis.  

this is GD.
View Quote


It's clickbait because this poster is establishing a habit of posting You Tube videos, and duplicating the clickbait part of them including the Video title and the thumbnail subtitles.  Almost like he owns them and is trying to drive traffic to them.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 8:42:56 PM EST
[#14]
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Quoted:



Wow.
Max is 15 for the 172.    I’ve never understood why some pilots want to push against every bit of training they’ve had.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



Why didn't airport manager just tell them the airport closed? Conditions were so bad there's no way I would have allowed them to take off. They couldn't even get the ice off the tail of the airplane.
I've shut down the airport via NOTAM, had the tower notify the pilot of this over ground to have it on record and watch planes take off with us directing ARFF to standby until they are wheels up.

Ultimately, the PIC is the PIC.


We were taking the runway with a full MD-88 at a relatively small airport down south. Got on the runway cleared for takeoff and the wind suddenly picked up and went to 46 knots crosswind from frontal passage. We cancelled the takeoff clearance and told tower we needed to clear the runway and did. We were working on getting the numbers for the cross runway to takeoff with a headwind instead.

A Cessna 172 called ready for takeoff. Tower gave him the 46 knot crosswind winds. he said ready for takeoff. Tower asked for acknowledgement that he heard the 46 knot cross wind call. He said " yes I acknowledge the cross winds, ready for takeoff". Tower asked if he wanted the cross runway for a headwind takeoff. He said no. Tower cleared him on the runway and said " that MD-88 just taxied off the runway because the crosswinds are out of limits do you still want to take off?"  Guy answered yes. Tower gave him clearance, we both watched as he pushed up the power, released brakes, went about 100 feet and did a 90 left off the runway into the grass at full power nose wheel collapsed and the full power prop dug into the dirt. I don't think I ever laughed so hard. The world is full of idiots.



Wow.
Max is 15 for the 172.    I’ve never understood why some pilots want to push against every bit of training they’ve had.


Yeah 46 kt crosswind seems a tad excessive. I managed a really nice landing last weekend in a 9-11 kt crosswind in a 172. I was pretty proud of that. If it were much more than that I would have had my CFI do it or just take the other runway.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 8:46:34 PM EST
[#15]
If you exceed demonstrated limits, you become a test pilot.

Probably not the best of ideas. Waiting until the next day aint a bad thing.
Link Posted: 9/16/2024 9:50:45 PM EST
[#16]
Clickbait?  whatever.   Some of y'all need recalibration
Link Posted: 9/17/2024 10:49:45 AM EST
[#17]
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Quoted:



Really? How does a pilot override ground operations?
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Quoted:

doesnt work like that



Really? How does a pilot override ground operations?


"Ground operations" are only at large airports.  This was an uncontrolled airport.  No ground controller.  No tower controller.  Just a guy working the FBO which is basically a privately operated gas station and lobby for airplanes and pilots.  Usually under contract to the government airport owner which is typically the city or county.  
Link Posted: 9/17/2024 5:39:01 PM EST
[#18]
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Quoted:


People are stupid and think pilots are super heroes and planes are magic.
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Pilots want to keep their jobs. Some are willing to die for it.
Link Posted: 9/17/2024 5:49:06 PM EST
[#19]
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Quoted:

Pilots want to keep their jobs. Some are willing to die for it.
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Bingo.....

Kobe Bryants crash comes to mind.
Link Posted: 9/17/2024 7:22:55 PM EST
[#20]
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Quoted:

Pilots want to keep their jobs. Some are willing to die for it.
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This one is a little different though.  

I don’t think the passengers pressured the pilot to get home… it seems like it was the other way around.
Link Posted: 9/17/2024 7:25:01 PM EST
[#21]
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Quoted:
I fucking hate click bait posts like this.
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first time in a realdupe thread? bringing you the news already posted hours or days ago, or bullshit from years ago, like it's "new" news.
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