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Posted: 10/11/2016 7:30:28 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: God.... they look like they're in 1939. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The use of No.4s instead of No.1s would seem to be the bigger technical goof as far as the Irish weapons go. I'm not an Enfield specialist (I own a No 4 though), and I can check on the Irish military sites, but I'm not convinced by that. Isn't the protruding barrel an indicator of a No 4? http://66.media.tumblr.com/a40420d5773ca9e70211889fff99a603/tumblr_mvpr7ylV491rcoy9ro1_1280.jpg Osprey's "Modern African Wars: Congo 1960-2002" (Peter Abbot) specifies the British MkIII helmet, the 37 pattern webbing, and the No 4 rifle. Don't get me wrong, I believe the No1 MkIII was the standard rifle for reserves until the FAL showed up in the 80s, but it does seem possible that the Congo troops got the latest batch of the things? |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 7:48:21 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fal was being fielded by 1952/54 by Belgium and the FN 49 had been in service a few years . The British didn't really get the l1a1 till the mid to late 50s. Vets of the conflict remember being issued fal rifles after arriving. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The use of No.4s instead of No.1s would seem to be the bigger technical goof as far as the Irish weapons go. I'm not an Enfield specialist (I own a No 4 though), and I can check on the Irish military sites, but I'm not convinced by that. Isn't the protruding barrel an indicator of a No 4? http://66.media.tumblr.com/a40420d5773ca9e70211889fff99a603/tumblr_mvpr7ylV491rcoy9ro1_1280.jpg Osprey's "Modern African Wars: Congo 1960-2002" (Peter Abbot) specifies the British MkIII helmet, the 37 pattern webbing, and the No 4 rifle. Don't get me wrong, I believe the No1 MkIII was the standard rifle for reserves until the FAL showed up in the 80s, but it does seem possible that the Congo troops got the latest batch of the things? A lot of countries were still using WWII or prewar weapons back then. The Indian contingent was armed with various Lee-Enfield variants and Garands (I'm not sure that they had even adopted their version of the SLR by this point). The Ethiopians had Garands and bolt-actions (both Italian stuff and Mausers, IIRC). Some of the Moroccans there had FALs, but others had only Mausers. The Swedes were still using the Ljungman rifle. The Irish had both FALs and Lee-Enfields. The Katangese themselves had a mixture, as I described earlier, including Mausers of various types, SAFN-49s, and Lee-Enfields of various types in addition to their FALs. The Force Publique, which in Katanga became the basis for the Katangese Gendarmerie, did start getting FALs in the mid-1950s. I think the earliest Force Publique contract FAL I've seen was dated either 1954 or 1955. But they only got limited numbers; a lot of the Katangese FALs were left behind by withdrawing Belgian troops on orders of the Belgian government. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 8:10:20 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some pictures of their opponents. Katangese paratroopers:  That guy is straight up "Rat Patrol". |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 9:19:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like 33 Battalion, from the tricolors and summer (!) kit, boarding August 1960. 34 had brassards and cold-weather kit, 32 didn't seem to wear national markings at all. Irish UN battalions are created and disbanded sequentially, so 33 Battalion was the second battalion to go to the Congo. They're up to the high 80s or low 90s now. ("Regular" battalions, obviously, the lower numbers, do not get disbanded and are permanent). The Jadotville lads were 35 battalion. And, yes, the uniforms sucked. Vets say they were stared at in disbelief by the American aircrew Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those are No 4s. Which unit is that and what year? In fact something is telling me that one in the center of the pic is a Mk II. Those wool uniforms would suck in Africa. Looks like 33 Battalion, from the tricolors and summer (!) kit, boarding August 1960. 34 had brassards and cold-weather kit, 32 didn't seem to wear national markings at all. Irish UN battalions are created and disbanded sequentially, so 33 Battalion was the second battalion to go to the Congo. They're up to the high 80s or low 90s now. ("Regular" battalions, obviously, the lower numbers, do not get disbanded and are permanent). The Jadotville lads were 35 battalion. And, yes, the uniforms sucked. Vets say they were stared at in disbelief by the American aircrew |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 9:21:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This film is a Pro Irish Soldoer piece of Propaganda and typical leftist spin. The Irish troops were the bad guys. They fought for the UN. Simple as that. They might be good lads and all that jazz but the UN were the bad guys. This film as a piece of fiction actually made me hate the UN more. The bullshit lies the UN spews abut Freedom and Liberty for all people is garbage. If that were true, they woud have recognized Katanga..... hell, they'd of recognized the Republic of China. The line about Texas is my view. If Texas tomorrow told DC "Fuck you, we're leaving and taking our oil with us." I'd support the hell oit of Texas. I draw a parallel line. Secession is a righteous cause. Also Might Make Right/Not Everyone should be independent. Katanga should be free. They wanted to be a independent western nation with core values in the protection and beliefs of private property and capitalism. That I support for independence. Savage Commie Fucks and Backwards Tribes. Fuck them.... let them be ruled by colonial masters until they evolve. The UN is against what I support. They want a global leftist shithole of nationalized industry and open borders where everyone is fucked under socialist dogma. After reading a bit, I 100% agree with Miami JBT. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 9:23:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Indeed it was. Even given the leftist viewpoint. I was a youngster when the Congolese conflicts were happening, but I remember hearing Walter Cronkite make reference to them on the evening news, though I don't remember much of the specifics. I do distinctly remember hearing about the SGUN crash. Never realized he was shot down as the movie infers. I need to research the conflict more now that my interest is piqued. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That was a great movie. I was a youngster when the Congolese conflicts were happening, but I remember hearing Walter Cronkite make reference to them on the evening news, though I don't remember much of the specifics. I do distinctly remember hearing about the SGUN crash. Never realized he was shot down as the movie infers. I need to research the conflict more now that my interest is piqued. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 9:42:37 AM EDT
[#7]
i gave it 4 stars
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Posted: 10/11/2016 10:01:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Interesting historical note, with the appearance of the Fougas, the commander of the Katangese Air Force was Jan Zumbach, who was a Polish pilot with the British 303 Squadron in WW2. Had 12 kills against Germany.
He flew in Katanga and then in Biafra. The book I have on Polish pilots in the RAF said he died in Paris of something or other and the French authorities were really interested in not finding out what he died from. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 10:40:06 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting historical note, with the appearance of the Fougas, the commander of the Katangese Air Force was Jan Zumbach, who was a Polish pilot with the British 303 Squadron in WW2. Had 12 kills against Germany. He flew in Katanga and then in Biafra. The book I have on Polish pilots in the RAF said he died in Paris of something or other and the French authorities were really interested in not finding out what he died from.  Here.he is in Haiti. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 11:36:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those are indeed No. 4s and look brand new. Ireland must have bought some from Britain after the war. Kind of surprising. No. 1 was definitely the standard, inherited from the British. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The use of No.4s instead of No.1s would seem to be the bigger technical goof as far as the Irish weapons go. I'm not an Enfield specialist (I own a No 4 though), and I can check on the Irish military sites, but I'm not convinced by that. Isn't the protruding barrel an indicator of a No 4? http://66.media.tumblr.com/a40420d5773ca9e70211889fff99a603/tumblr_mvpr7ylV491rcoy9ro1_1280.jpg Osprey's "Modern African Wars: Congo 1960-2002" (Peter Abbot) specifies the British MkIII helmet, the 37 pattern webbing, and the No 4 rifle. Don't get me wrong, I believe the No1 MkIII was the standard rifle for reserves until the FAL showed up in the 80s, but it does seem possible that the Congo troops got the latest batch of the things? In fact something is telling me that one in the center of the pic is a Mk II. Those wool uniforms would suck in Africa. Those are indeed No. 4s and look brand new. Ireland must have bought some from Britain after the war. Kind of surprising. No. 1 was definitely the standard, inherited from the British. I had a irish contract No 4 Mk II made in iirc 1954 or 1955 back in the late 90's. It was brand new, never unwrapped or fired. Looked fresh from the assembly line. That was a sweeet MFer |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 11:43:55 AM EDT
[#11]
What the western liberals did to Africa back then is what they're doing to America now.
Time to break out the FAL, bush hat and khaki shorts, I reckon. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 11:46:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What the western liberals did to Africa back then is what they're doing to America now. Time to break out the FAL, bush hat and khaki shorts, I reckon. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 2:08:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i gave it 4 stars I liked it for it's production value. I hate the U.N.. I hate it's the very idea of the United Nations. I hate it's bureaucratic structure, mission, and history. In my opinion it should be shut down, or relegated as a meeting hall where diplomates can meet and negotiate. But that's it. There should be no U.N. resolutions, regulations, and certainly no U.N. military forces or missions. The U.N. should never attempt to meddle in the internal affairs of countries. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 4:26:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I liked it for it's production value. I hate the U.N.. I hate it's the very idea of the United Nations. I hate it's bureaucratic structure, mission, and history. In my opinion it should be shut down, or relegated as a meeting hall where diplomates can meet and negotiate. But that's it. There should be no U.N. resolutions, regulations, and certainly no U.N. military forces or missions. The U.N. should never attempt to meddle in the internal affairs of countries. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: i gave it 4 stars I liked it for it's production value. I hate the U.N.. I hate it's the very idea of the United Nations. I hate it's bureaucratic structure, mission, and history. In my opinion it should be shut down, or relegated as a meeting hall where diplomates can meet and negotiate. But that's it. There should be no U.N. resolutions, regulations, and certainly no U.N. military forces or missions. The U.N. should never attempt to meddle in the internal affairs of countries. Fuck the UN. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 4:34:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We could do with some whiskey And how did he think they would get it to him, because if they can bring whisky they can bring reinforcements and ammo. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 5:01:04 PM EDT
[#16]
My son was just telling me that this was a good series to watch.
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Posted: 10/11/2016 6:21:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting historical note, with the appearance of the Fougas, the commander of the Katangese Air Force was Jan Zumbach, who was a Polish pilot with the British 303 Squadron in WW2. Had 12 kills against Germany. He flew in Katanga and then in Biafra. The book I have on Polish pilots in the RAF said he died in Paris of something or other and the French authorities were really interested in not finding out what he died from. Quite a few Polish exiles fought in Katanga. They and others felt they were fighting against the forces of communism. Zumbach didn't take command, IIRC, until after this spate of fighting and the next one in December of 1961. I believe that one of the Fouga pilots, Major Joseph Delin, was in command at the time. I'd have to look that up. I've been meaning to open up my books. Almost everything I've posted here has been off of the top of my head. Major Delin was a Belgian. I don't recall if he was seconded from the Luftmacht, transferred over from the Force Publique or AVIKAT when they became the basis for the Katangese military, or if he individually sought a commission after Katanga seceded. I think he's the only Katangese pilot credited with aircraft kills throughout the war. Once the UN moved Swedish, Indian and Ethiopian fighter jets in, the Katangese Air Force had a really bad go of it. They still had successes here and there against ground targets, and served some other useful functions, but they would never achieve the level of success that they did during Operation Morthor. Parts of the Air Force evacuated into Portuguese Angola and Northern Rhodesia in the final days of the war. ETA: Looked it up, and most or all of the kills plus the attack on O'Brien pictured in an earlier post were done by a pilot named Pierre Magain, also of Belgian descent. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 6:22:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how did he think they would get it to him, because if they can bring whisky they can bring reinforcements and ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We could do with some whiskey And how did he think they would get it to him, because if they can bring whisky they can bring reinforcements and ammo. I suspect your sense of humor is underdeveloped. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 6:46:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Heads up on the UN.
Portuguese Socialist to replace Moon. Shocked it wasn't a woman. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 6:46:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Found a picture of Zumbach standing in-between President Moise Tshombe (on the viewer's right) and General Moke (on the left; commander of the Katangese military).
And another of the gunner on a De Havilland Dove flown by Zumbach while attacking Congolese troops that had invaded Katanga from the north: 
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Posted: 10/11/2016 6:47:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never root for the Irish. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Who do we root for? The Irish? Never root for the Irish. 
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Posted: 10/11/2016 6:53:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That guy is straight up "Rat Patrol". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Some pictures of their opponents. Katangese paratroopers: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/bigstick61/LON125031-1.jpg That guy is straight up "Rat Patrol". Interesting get-up, too: Denison Smock, French Mle. 52 boots, FN BAR-D. I wonder where he originally hailed from. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 7:10:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting get-up, too: Denison Smock, French Mle. 52 boots, FN BAR-D. I wonder where he originally hailed from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Some pictures of their opponents. Katangese paratroopers: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/bigstick61/LON125031-1.jpg That guy is straight up "Rat Patrol". Interesting get-up, too: Denison Smock, French Mle. 52 boots, FN BAR-D. I wonder where he originally hailed from. He's wearing a pretty standard paratrooper's field uniform. Smocks were standard-issue. Sometimes they were the "moon-and-balls" Belgian camo pattern or the contemporary version of the Belgian jigsaw camo pattern, but mostly they were of the Belgian brushstroke pattern made for use in the Congo. They had matching windproof overpants sometimes, too. The Katangese basically wore Belgian uniforms with some differences in insignia and a bit less uniformity with respect to certain items. |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 8:28:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how did he think they would get it to him, because if they can bring whisky they can bring reinforcements and ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We could do with some whiskey And how did he think they would get it to him, because if they can bring whisky they can bring reinforcements and ammo. The same helicopter which brought the water and mortar ammo |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 9:04:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Bump, cuz this is still the best thread of October.
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Posted: 10/12/2016 9:22:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Can't say I've ever heard of a place called Katanga. and the o ly references I have to it are a) one of our Comedians, Lenny Henry used to use Katanga as a catchphrase, b) the Captain of the freighter in Raiders of the Lost Ark is called Simon Katanga and c) James Bonds arch enemy in Live & Let Die was called Katanga (Mr Big)
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Posted: 10/12/2016 9:24:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's like 300, or Zulu. Both sides have questionable causes, but the story is about a small group of brave men who fought gallantly against impossible odds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Who do we root for? That's the first time I've ever heard of the ancient Grecians fight against the Persian Empire as a "questionable cause". 
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Posted: 10/12/2016 2:32:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The used the "peacekeeping" version which is neat in that it has a bayonet lug. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I just watched the movie and it really reinforced that I really wish I could get a Swedish K.  The used the "peacekeeping" version which is neat in that it has a bayonet lug. The M/45C was actually a ceremonial weapon, mostly used by the royal guards. They decided to use them for the Congo mission as it was felt that a bayo was needed there. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 2:46:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Pic thread?
Tgb 42 as it looked in Congo 
Swedes interrogating a mercenary 
US-made M8 armoured car. One of four captured by the Swedes in action. 
More recent pics of Swedes in Congo |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 2:51:16 PM EDT
[#30]
When I first joined the army in 2001 I got to know a nice old man who served in Congo. He's since passed away, but he used to tell me stories from there.
One day as he was guarding the Swedish camp a van pulled up some distance away, with the rear doors opening towards the camp. There were rebels inside with a captured recoilless rifle which they fired at the Swedes from inside the van. Not only did they fail to hit the camp, the round travelled above the entire camp, but the backblast killed them all. My friend told me that they were quite mangled by the backblast, and there was blood everywhere inside the van. 
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Posted: 10/12/2016 2:55:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I first joined the army in 2001 I got to know a nice old man who served in Congo. He's since passed away, but he used to tell me stories from there. One day as he was guarding the Swedish camp a van pulled up some distance away, with the rear doors opening towards the camp. There were rebels inside with a captured recoilless rifle which they fired at the Swedes from inside the van. Not only did they fail to hit the camp, the round travelled above the entire camp, but the backblast killed them all. My friend told me that they were quite mangled by the backblast, and there was blood everywhere inside the van. Funny as shit story though. Not a fan of the UN crushing secessionist wishing to be free of corruption and misery. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 3:03:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Someone mentioned Biafra as well. That conflict had some similarities to Katanga, but the separatists had much less resources there.
There were Swedes there as well, but not in an official capacity, and they were fighting for the rebels in that conflict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malm%C3%B6_MFI-9 
My grandmother knew von Rosen as they had met in 1939 when he flew her from Germany a few weeks before WWII kicked off. He wiped out quite a few jet aircraft on the ground using these bad boys. 
I'm sure that Sylvan will appreciate the simplicity of this COIN/LAAR aircraft.
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Posted: 10/12/2016 3:04:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone mentioned Biafra as well. That conflict had some similarities to Katanga, but the separatists had much less resources there. There were Swedes there as well, but not in an official capacity, and they were fighting for the rebels in that conflict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malm%C3%B6_MFI-9 https://67.media.tumblr.com/f3e7a04652d7276f60ffb00d5deda8c1/tumblr_ngywxxWRAW1rji3x6o1_500.jpg My grandmother knew von Rosen as they had met in 1939 when he flew her from Germany a few weeks before WWII kicked off. He wiped out quite a few jet aircraft on the ground using these bad boys. https://ideellkulturkamp.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/biafra-flyg.jpg http://sverigesradio.se/sida/images/2519/1649251_1200_787.jpg?preset=article-slider I'm sure that Sylvan will appreciate the simplicity of this COIN/LAAR aircraft. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 3:04:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were these Katangagese Rebels? Because if they were I kinda feel sorry for them. Funny as shit story though. Not a fan of the UN crushing secessionist wishing to be free of corruption and misery. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When I first joined the army in 2001 I got to know a nice old man who served in Congo. He's since passed away, but he used to tell me stories from there. One day as he was guarding the Swedish camp a van pulled up some distance away, with the rear doors opening towards the camp. There were rebels inside with a captured recoilless rifle which they fired at the Swedes from inside the van. Not only did they fail to hit the camp, the round travelled above the entire camp, but the backblast killed them all. My friend told me that they were quite mangled by the backblast, and there was blood everywhere inside the van. Funny as shit story though. Not a fan of the UN crushing secessionist wishing to be free of corruption and misery. Yeah, they were. I agree that we should have supported Katanga, but politics suck sometimes. My friend was, however, thankful that they were so incompetent that day. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 3:08:00 PM EDT
[#35]
I was wondering about the M8 armored car. I was in Arsenalen two weeks ago.
Keep an eye on my youtube channel (Inside the Chieftain's Hatch). I filmed four Swedish tanks. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 3:08:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was wondering about the M8 armored car. I was in Arsenalen two weeks ago. Keep an eye on my youtube channel (Inside the Chieftain's Hatch). I filmed four Swedish tanks. Awesome.
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Posted: 10/12/2016 4:31:22 PM EDT
[#37]
If you would like to read more about Irish peacekeepers with the UN, read Michael Walsh's "SEAL". Walsh was USN special warfare, and was assigned to Beirut in the 1980s. According to Walsh, the Irish army was feeding intel on the Americans to the Syrians.
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Posted: 10/13/2016 2:16:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you would like to read more about Irish peacekeepers with the UN, read Michael Walsh's "SEAL". Walsh was USN special warfare, and was assigned to Beirut in the 1980s. According to Walsh, the Irish army was feeding intel on the Americans to the Syrians. Ah, bullcrap. Why would we have done that? It's easy to come up with conspiracy theories about other organisations, especially when something goes wrong. |
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Posted: 10/13/2016 4:39:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Why does he need the bren to shoot the white suit man?
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Posted: 10/13/2016 5:17:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why does he need the bren to shoot the white suit man? That's what I was wondering. |
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Posted: 10/13/2016 6:33:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does he need the bren to shoot the white suit man? |
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Posted: 10/13/2016 6:55:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why does he need the bren to shoot the white suit man? I wondered about that myself. His scoped Enfield could have got the job done. |
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Posted: 10/13/2016 7:05:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because Movie Magic Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why does he need the bren to shoot the white suit man? I was gonna say it's more fun. |
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Posted: 10/13/2016 10:13:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was gonna say it's more fun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why does he need the bren to shoot the white suit man? I was gonna say it's more fun. On the BREN subject, I know nothing about BRENs that I didn't learn on you tube, but my understanding is that it is extremely accurate for an LMG, like telly good at I would think that if you had an "iffy" target lining up on it well and dropping ten rounds wouldn't be a bad idea. The single shot thing? I don't get it at all. |
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Posted: 10/14/2016 1:05:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Watched it last night.... Not very good, IMHO. Just not a very interesting story, as far as the action goes.
It does make me dislike the UN more. Not because of the Irish soldier's plight, they were pretty much innocent, just carrying out orders and almost got killed for it. The UN tried to meddle in shit they shouldn't have gotten involved in. Damn near started a larger war. |
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Posted: 10/14/2016 1:12:04 PM EDT
[#46]
I watched it last night sort of.
I didn't pay much attention It was alright. I didn't realize there was this much controversy on the whole thing. Looks from what I have briefly read is the UN was in the wrong here. Off to figure out whats what |
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Posted: 10/14/2016 1:14:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the BREN subject, I know nothing about BRENs that I didn't learn on you tube, but my understanding is that it is extremely accurate for an LMG, like telly good at I would think that if you had an "iffy" target lining up on it well and dropping ten rounds wouldn't be a bad idea. The single shot thing? I don't get it at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why does he need the bren to shoot the white suit man? I was gonna say it's more fun. On the BREN subject, I know nothing about BRENs that I didn't learn on you tube, but my understanding is that it is extremely accurate for an LMG, like telly good at I would think that if you had an "iffy" target lining up on it well and dropping ten rounds wouldn't be a bad idea. The single shot thing? I don't get it at all. I figured it was a play on Hatchcock using a scoped M2 in single shot |
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Posted: 10/14/2016 1:18:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not. The Irish were on the wrong side in that war. It's too bad the UN wasn't defeated. Katanga was one of the few parts of post-colonial Africa that actually wanted to keep its white population, ties to its former colonizer, etc. It also didn't have problems anywhere near as serious as the rest of Congo-Leopoldville before secession. The invasion by the UN (which was done in cooperation with the ANC) was a totally belligerent act, the exact sort the UN was meant to prevent. Multiple historically neutral countries (like Ireland and Sweden) came out of the woodwork to invade and occupy a country which did no wrong and which was completely irrelevant to their national interests. Countries portrayed as noble opponents of colonialism, like India, also took part; India was a really aggressive and belligerent power during this time. They took action against Katanga, Portugal, and Pakistan. All in all, it's a shame the UN and the countries that participated didn't get thrashed hard. The Irish at Jadotville were lucky that most of the Katangese forces besieging them were tribesmen led by a small force of regulars (including European troops); some of these men were armed with little more than muskets, bows and arrows, spears, clubs, etc. They also had a couple of aircraft from the Katangese Air Force supporting them, but they were mainly used to bomb and strafe UN forces sent to relieve the Irish. A number of Irish officers ended up having their careers stained over this action and for a long time it was one of those things that were rarely discussed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
arfcom is not gonna rot for the UN.. is it ? I'm not. The Irish were on the wrong side in that war. It's too bad the UN wasn't defeated. Katanga was one of the few parts of post-colonial Africa that actually wanted to keep its white population, ties to its former colonizer, etc. It also didn't have problems anywhere near as serious as the rest of Congo-Leopoldville before secession. The invasion by the UN (which was done in cooperation with the ANC) was a totally belligerent act, the exact sort the UN was meant to prevent. Multiple historically neutral countries (like Ireland and Sweden) came out of the woodwork to invade and occupy a country which did no wrong and which was completely irrelevant to their national interests. Countries portrayed as noble opponents of colonialism, like India, also took part; India was a really aggressive and belligerent power during this time. They took action against Katanga, Portugal, and Pakistan. All in all, it's a shame the UN and the countries that participated didn't get thrashed hard. The Irish at Jadotville were lucky that most of the Katangese forces besieging them were tribesmen led by a small force of regulars (including European troops); some of these men were armed with little more than muskets, bows and arrows, spears, clubs, etc. They also had a couple of aircraft from the Katangese Air Force supporting them, but they were mainly used to bomb and strafe UN forces sent to relieve the Irish. A number of Irish officers ended up having their careers stained over this action and for a long time it was one of those things that were rarely discussed. I'm damn sure not rooting against anyone that killed the namesake of the Patrice Lumumba School. Fuck those communist mother fuckers..... Peoples Friendship University |
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Posted: 10/14/2016 8:12:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm damn sure not rooting against anyone that killed the namesake of the Patrice Lumumba School. Fuck those communist mother fuckers..... Peoples Friendship University Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
arfcom is not gonna rot for the UN.. is it ? I'm not. The Irish were on the wrong side in that war. It's too bad the UN wasn't defeated. Katanga was one of the few parts of post-colonial Africa that actually wanted to keep its white population, ties to its former colonizer, etc. It also didn't have problems anywhere near as serious as the rest of Congo-Leopoldville before secession. The invasion by the UN (which was done in cooperation with the ANC) was a totally belligerent act, the exact sort the UN was meant to prevent. Multiple historically neutral countries (like Ireland and Sweden) came out of the woodwork to invade and occupy a country which did no wrong and which was completely irrelevant to their national interests. Countries portrayed as noble opponents of colonialism, like India, also took part; India was a really aggressive and belligerent power during this time. They took action against Katanga, Portugal, and Pakistan. All in all, it's a shame the UN and the countries that participated didn't get thrashed hard. The Irish at Jadotville were lucky that most of the Katangese forces besieging them were tribesmen led by a small force of regulars (including European troops); some of these men were armed with little more than muskets, bows and arrows, spears, clubs, etc. They also had a couple of aircraft from the Katangese Air Force supporting them, but they were mainly used to bomb and strafe UN forces sent to relieve the Irish. A number of Irish officers ended up having their careers stained over this action and for a long time it was one of those things that were rarely discussed. I'm damn sure not rooting against anyone that killed the namesake of the Patrice Lumumba School. Fuck those communist mother fuckers..... Peoples Friendship University Apparently Mahmoud Abbas is a graduate of that school (and was a KGB asset). There is a reason why the communists named that institution after Lumumba. |
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Posted: 10/14/2016 8:14:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Watched it last night.... Not very good, IMHO. Just not a very interesting story, as far as the action goes. It does make me dislike the UN more. Not because of the Irish soldier's plight, they were pretty much innocent, just carrying out orders and almost got killed for it. The UN tried to meddle in shit they shouldn't have gotten involved in. Damn near started a larger war. Supposedly Quinlan, the commander, was a true believer in the UN cause and volunteered for the assignment. Makes it a little harder to sympathize with him. He still did a great job under the circumstances. I don't think a larger war was ever a real possibility. The movie greatly exaggerates the importance of what was going on. It makes it seem like it was a potential precursor to WWIII, which it never was. |
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