I just went to look at my chrono data and realized I never put any of the surplus 85gr stuff on the clock. I was messing with 7.62 Mini-Whisper (a Tok case using a heavy .308 bullet in an AR mag) with 147-180gr projectiles before 300BO became a thing, but I never got speeds of the Commie surplus stuff from the 10" 7.62x25 AR. Maybe I'll rectify that if I pick up a 7.62x25 pistol and just resign myself to actually cleaning guns after a range trip

Glock 19

I have both a CZ vz. 82 and a Yugo M57 Tok. If forced to pick one, I'd take the vz. 82.

Tokarev - the tradition NKVD weapon for execution.  

This. My E. German Mak is one of the nicest made guns I owned.

I think they used these more.

I love my Mak, carried it for years, very reliable. Accurate but the sights are too small.

I wish ammo was cheap, it was a fun plinker.

Zastava M57 for the win.

I absolutely loved my makarov, super reliable and accurate. I wish I had bought a dozen of them back when they were around $100.00. Circa 1989 etc.

BIG TOKAREV BURNS BIG COAL

Can makarovs still be converted to .380?

I remember makarov.com but they went defunct a while ago.

I've only carried it a few times and when I did it was loaded with the hammer down. I didn't find out until later that the CZ82 is technically not entirely drop safe

Custom Tok

Oh, now that I like.

Khyber Pass Kustom Shop work ? That is nice, whoever did it.

Yes, someone else posted about it. You need a .380 barrel and a rig to push the old barrel out of its base (can be homemade with parts from Home Depot). These are fixed barrel guns.

A company called Federal Arms Corp. sold them cheap until somebody assassinated a Judge with one and ATF squeezed them for purchase records (names and addressees) without a warrant. Between the ATF pressure, lawyers and pissed-off customers they eventually folded.

Wolf springs and polish iron grips made mine pleasant to shoot

...yeah thats pretty fuckin HOT!

@Dunderway

What’s the deal with that Tok? Looks slicker than owl shit.

Not a real question.

Makarov, preferably Bulgarian.

Gonna need some details on this.

Tok,  no joke.

Wish we could get that china pistol.

Wow, nice custom Tokarev.

And I thought I was balling with a removal of the magazine disconnect, trigger job, compensator, custom grips and tritium night sights.

I vote for the cz82 too.

I own several of each and really enjoy both. Also own an m88a chambered in 9mm. It's basically a compact tokarov. That one I actually carry on occasion.

All have been 100% reliable and I have plenty of ammo.

I couldn't reply to the poll because I appreciate both.

I have the same grips on my M57.

I had an opportunity to shoot a full-auto BHP (nice to have a friend who holds a 7-10/2). It was actually MUCH easier to shoot WITHOUT the shoulder stock.

We're not in Salad Days anymore and cheap surplus 7.62 Tokarev and newer steel case 9mm Mak are long gone
(I don't remember much surplus 9x18 being available) but people bought up all the surplus Makarovs, Tokarevs and CZ-52s...

Why are both ammos so expensive and not well established? I guess it is because they're relegated to
niche/collector gun status.


I should have bought some PPU 85gr JHP. You're definitely going to have decent expansion from the
high velocity. https://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/04/06/7-62x25-self-defense/

You've never heard of IVAN CHESNOKOV?

It's not mine.  I saw this thread and thought surely someone has done a custom Tokarev.  So I image searched.  It says from the CZ custom shop, but I have not been able to find anymore info on it.

@towerofpower94

Clearly you didn’t read the OP. Go back and then tell us about your personal preference for the last item.

Attached File

Love my CZ-52

My buddy says:

"Tokarev. Surplus steel jacketed ammo will defeat 2a vests. There's lots of Czech steel core ammo out there that will do a lot more, especially if hot loaded."

First Turk company to make and import clones for under 1k is going to make some cash.

In terms of ruggedness and reliability, I think it's a draw. It's fascinating how simple the Mak is in it's construction. Both have odd calibers, but in times of need you can make 9mm Mak out of 9mm Luger brass. Ergos and magazine capacity are 'meh' for both.

I recently took my Mak to the range after it had been sitting in the safe for many years. I was quickly reminded why. The last time I shot a Tokarev, I wasn't super impressed either.

Tokarev gets an edge for it's more powerful and flat-shooting cartridge, the Mak gets an edge for concealibilty and being DA. I won't sell my Mak, but I won't buy a Tokarev. So, I guess my vote is for Makarov.

Care to explain what this means?

I have an all original 1936 Tok and a 1963 EG Mak.

Tok is thinner with a push button mag release.

The Mak has an after market mag release that is much better than the factory heal release.

The Mak is very accurate. I don’t shoot the Tok often because of its value, but when I do it is quite accurate, too.

I’ll take the Mak over the Tok for concealed carry.

They both have their advantages. Really, looking at owning one today, I’d say they’d have completely different roles unless you were just getting them for historical curiosity, or as a collector item.

The 9x18 pistols make excellent concealed carry pistols in spite of not being designed for that role. 9x18 gives you a bit more power than a .380 ballistically and there is decent ammo out there for that(I like the critical defense load). Interestingly enough, someone was (and may still be) making 9x18 barrels for the Ruger LCP and Glock 42. Typically the former communist pistols are built like tanks, extremely reliable, and wil run whatever garbage you put in them.

The P64 is the smallest of the bunch, with the CZ82 being the largest of what’s available in this country(Regrettably, the APS is not available for regular folks). The actual Makarovs are somewhere in the middle size-wise. The various Hungarian models are Walther PPK clones, and so about the same size-which is about right for a small carry pistol.

The CZ82 is a fairly well thought out pistol with good controls, an ambidextrous button type mag release, and 12 rd capacity, while still being small enough to be a carry piece-albeit larger than the other pistols in this caliber.

For the Tokarev, for what’s available here, they’re all full sized handguns. So completely different purposes(except plinking, or collecting) than the Makarov pistols. Military ammo will defeat body armor rated to stop 9mm. There is one JHP factory load I am aware of(Prvi Partizan), and other brass-cased, reloadable ammo is out there.

There aren’t as many models in 7.62x25 as there are in 9x18 as most nations just made Tokarevs with their own markings on them. The exceptions are the Czechs with their CZ-52, and to a lesser degree the Yugos and their M57. All of the Tokarev pistols I am aware of in this country can be converted to 9mm with just a barrel change.

The Tokarev is similar in function to a 1911. It has a few changes that are interesting if nothing else. For example, the fire control group is a drop in unit, and comes out in field stripping. The magazine feed lips are actually machined into the frame to eliminate the biggest failure point in the magazine. They sport different safeties, as these were add-on solely for import purposes(that pesky ‘68 law again) and of varying amounts of actual utility. Original Tokarev pistols had no real mechanical safety. Typically Tokarev pistols are extremely reliable. They are fairly easy shooting pistols with recoil being a bit less than a 9mm in my opinion. I taught a few women how to shoot a handgun with one through the years-and it lends itself to that pretty well.

The M57 is basically a Tokarev variant. It holds 1 more round over the others and sports a lot of the features gunsmiths were doing to 1911s over here in that era: lowered ejection port, slide serrations, etc. Magazines do not completely interchange with other Tokarevs.  you can typically use the M57 mags in other Tokarevs, but you can’t use other Tokarev mags in the M57 because of the extra grip length. Interestingly enough, variants of this pistol are still being produced in Serbia and imported here.

The CZ-52 is its own interesting animal. It’s a roller locked pistol. It has a manual safety with a decocker(though be careful, I’ve heard not all of these work properly) which is interesting on a single action handgun. Like the Tokarevs, it’s a barrel change away from being a 9mm.

With either 9x18 or 7.62x25, reloading is a good option. The days of shooting anything regardless of caliber for a couple cents per round are gone. But you can reload either cartridge fairly cheaply. I have loaded cast bullets in both calibers. If you don’t reload there is factory ammo out there for both.

For 7.62x25 you can use bullets for .30 carbine if you’re wanting something jacketed. The Speer 100gr .30 cal short jackets also make a good choice. I tend to cast for mine, using the Lee mold for .32 ACP. Brass is available or you can actually make it from .223-though this is a bit of work. I tend to save the .223 cases that get buggered at the case mouth and use them for conversion. For 9x18, components are available as well. Lee makes a mold just for casting in this caliber.

With either caliber, data is available and not hard to find. You can use any number of pistol powders to load either.

Anyway my opinion-get both. They both have their uses.

These pistols were not cheap because they were cheap to produce. They were cheap because there were a shitload of them out there as surplus. They will go up in value as everything of this type does. And you can enjoy them in the meantime.

I've got an old beat up ChiCom M20 Tok.  Need to find grips for it.  They seem to be harder to find than the damn pistol!

Isn't the 7.62x25 round supposed to be a shit hot self defense round?

I love my CZ82. Accurate little gun.

PPU is a mild load ammo in 7.62x25.
S&B is hot.
Winchester brand is repackaged S&B.
PPU is preferred by many CZ52 owners.

Wow I would love to own that.

I have a cheap Chinese Tok and think it is pretty fun. It feels plenty awkward but can put rounds on target. The cheesy pin that holds the firing pin in gets eaten alive from dry firing. I replaced it with a piece of welding rod.

Been thinking about having mine NP3'd

You failed to provide:
“personal preference based on capacity for depth of anal insertion.”

Seriously though, there is no problem. I appreciate that you were one that actually put some thought and effort in. Especially since I have neither and shot neither. I’m considering a Yugo Tokarev because my FIL is Yugo.

I was just being a shit.

I love the Tok round.