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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:51:48 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your point has no merit. Ultimately only one person is in charge of your safety - you. If you’re too stupid to judge the dangers involved then you end up as goo on the sea floor. That’s just the harsh reality of the world. There’s very little sympathy to be had for those who put no effort into their self preservation.  Attached FileBy your logic, what about all of the passengers on the Titanic? I mean, they had to have known about the previous incidents with the White Star Line, right? Nah, it's just a short-sighted, idealistic conclusion that you made. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:51:48 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People don’t understand what they would be recovering. The recent ship that sank in 15,000 feet of water with sailors onboard, those bodies were squeezed into the size of a softball  Bodies that experienced a catastrophic implosion would most likely be in pieces and so would be squeezed into even smaller bits, nothing to recover. I don’t get it. What besides the thorax would be crushed ? The legs would be intact wouldn’t they ? For example |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:52:46 PM EST
[#3]
This tour group appears to be the plaything of the CEO and that French guy. Why do you need the French guy to tell you what you are seeing. Cover that on the surface and take another paying
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:52:48 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doubt it. Think the pressure would overcome the action to separate at depth. cycling of the Carbon Fiber causing fractures and failure is my bet. But I am not an engineer. One of the reasons they initially downgraded the depth of this expensive dumpster diver. Big question is was it the Cyclops when they did that and later named it the Titan to make people think this was a new sub? I think Cyclops is a completely different sub; it for sure has a different nose cap and a dorsal hatch: 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:52:49 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIP sailors. Sounds like after the engineering study on the pressure hull, a 2nd pressure hull was built before Titanic tours went ahead? It seems incredible that they would dive w/ a porthole that wasn't specified for the pressure. They postponed trips so probably built up the safety margin to the correct levels, however did not allow for fatigue or any kind of testing. Wouldn't you be sending these things down unmanned on an umbilical for a few trips and then seeing how the hull laminate and bonding is holding up? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:52:51 PM EST
[#6]
Page 87. I own it.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:52:58 PM EST
[#7]
 Missing Titanic submarine was 'shoddy' and I pulled out at the last minute |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:53:15 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The was a fucked for flying looking but complete F-16 canopy at a .gov auction years ago here. Didn't buy buy it becuase wtf would I do with it but was tempted. Race boat canopy |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:53:29 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The window seems to be weak point. They should just make it an entirely closed cylinder. Once they get down to the Titanic, they could watch a VHS copy of James Cameron's movie on a TV What did they use on the real and professionally engineered submersibles and bathysphers for windows? I would have thought some form of tempered glass or fused quartz as thick and the hull and sharply tapered or conical Was this little lexan or plexiglass window tapered? Or was it an inspired flat sheet or plate? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:53:39 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t get it. What besides the thorax would be crushed ? The legs would be intact wouldn’t they ? For example Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: People don’t understand what they would be recovering. The recent ship that sank in 15,000 feet of water with sailors onboard, those bodies were squeezed into the size of a softball Bodies that experienced a catastrophic implosion would most likely be in pieces and so would be squeezed into even smaller bits, nothing to recover. I don’t get it. What besides the thorax would be crushed ? The legs would be intact wouldn’t they ? For example The pressure vessel itself would crush all parts of the bodies. Imaging sticking a leg in a hydraulic press. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:53:44 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIP sailors. Sounds like after the engineering study on the pressure hull, a 2nd pressure hull was built before Titanic tours went ahead? It seems incredible that they would dive w/ a porthole that wasn't specified for the pressure. They are no more sailors than the people going up on the Blue Origin dildo are astronauts. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:54:13 PM EST
[#12]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:54:18 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t get it. What besides the thorax would be crushed ? The legs would be intact wouldn’t they ? For example This is a subject I’ve looked into casually. One of those things where the more you know, the less you want to know. In on 87. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:54:42 PM EST
[#14]
Call Ben Crump. The evidence points to the Walmart toilet failing, killing all aboard. Let's get this in front of a Baltimore jury for an $87B judgement.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:54:56 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t get it. What besides the thorax would be crushed ? The legs would be intact wouldn’t they ? For example Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: People don’t understand what they would be recovering. The recent ship that sank in 15,000 feet of water with sailors onboard, those bodies were squeezed into the size of a softball Bodies that experienced a catastrophic implosion would most likely be in pieces and so would be squeezed into even smaller bits, nothing to recover. I don’t get it. What besides the thorax would be crushed ? The legs would be intact wouldn’t they ? For example Anyone still in mastery of their high school math want to calculate the amount of energy that amount of seawater rushing in at that speed represents in foot pounds? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:55:06 PM EST
[#16]
Will this thread make it 187 pages deep?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:55:11 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Diving to 12,500 feet is a bit different than getting on a commercial airplane. What safety regulations exist for a commercial deep sea tourist submersible operating in international waters? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just like every time you fly on a plane, there's an assumption that the carrier is operating within safety regs and has their ducks more or less in a row. Sounds like much of this was misrepresented to the sub customers, so it would have been impossible for them to have made an informed decision. Lol. Diving to 12,500 feet is a bit different than getting on a commercial airplane. What safety regulations exist for a commercial deep sea tourist submersible operating in international waters? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:55:26 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Page 87. I own it. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, somebody else beat you to the punch I’m afraid…. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:55:52 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Page 87. I own it. Step aside, buddy
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:56:28 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the state of CT was being used an a unit of measurement for area. Now its also weight? I'm gonna need a diversity hire to break down this submarine math to inspire me to understand. CT is heavier than 87 ballon buses  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:57:10 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up_zps5c0357b9_GIF-103.gif By your logic, kids who die in car and bus crashes are responsible for their own deaths... Or is that different, since kids are incapable of self-preservation, and thus proves that blanket statements are stupid? What an absolutely stupid straw man. I didn’t realize there were small children aboard. Ok, adults are responsible for their own safety, Mr. Pedantic. All those aboard were adults. Responsible for their own safety. Responsible for becoming informed about diving down to 6000 psi on their own. They bear some culpability in their deaths. No one forced this trip on them. That’s the harsh reality of dangerous risk taking. It’s on you. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:57:15 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Page 87. I own it. I havent seen somebody this confident and so wrong since that one CEO guy cobbled together a sub and took some tourists down and all got crushed to death. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:57:49 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Diving to 12,500 feet is a bit different than getting on a commercial airplane. What safety regulations exist for a commercial deep sea tourist submersible operating in international waters? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just like every time you fly on a plane, there's an assumption that the carrier is operating within safety regs and has their ducks more or less in a row. Sounds like much of this was misrepresented to the sub customers, so it would have been impossible for them to have made an informed decision. Lol. Diving to 12,500 feet is a bit different than getting on a commercial airplane. What safety regulations exist for a commercial deep sea tourist submersible operating in international waters? Of course it's different, and the risks are obviously higher. But the principle's the same... there has to be some level of trust between whoever's providing the ride and the passengers or there's no way to fairly judge the real risk. If those guys had fully understood how many corners had been cut in getting that sub underwater I can't imagine they'd have ever climbed aboard. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:58:28 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I havent seen somebody this confident and so wrong since that one CEO guy cobbled together a sub and took some tourists down and all got crushed to death.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:58:58 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They postponed trips so probably built up the safety margin to the correct levels, however did not allow for fatigue or any kind of testing. Wouldn't you be sending these things down unmanned on an umbilical for a few trips and then seeing how the hull laminate and bonding is holding up? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RIP sailors. Sounds like after the engineering study on the pressure hull, a 2nd pressure hull was built before Titanic tours went ahead? It seems incredible that they would dive w/ a porthole that wasn't specified for the pressure. They postponed trips so probably built up the safety margin to the correct levels, however did not allow for fatigue or any kind of testing. Wouldn't you be sending these things down unmanned on an umbilical for a few trips and then seeing how the hull laminate and bonding is holding up? Nah, we've run the numbers, after we've run enough trips that we're in the black we'll see about getting an even thicker tube that's a little longer so we can take more passengers per dive, maybe then we can afford a forward porthole that is actually rated for the pressure. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:59:30 PM EST
[#26]
In on 87
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:59:39 PM EST
[#27]
Analysis of recovered remains, of the submersible, should prove interesting. I wonder if any digital mediums survived? Flash cards/drives etc.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:59:58 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don’t have to be this person. I wouldn’t get in that thing myself but living on the edge and taking risks is exciting, not to mention it’s what has pushed humanity to the levels of advancement we have today. They drew the short straw, unfortunately for them and their families. Posting you have 0 sympathy when you could just read and be quiet makes you seem like an asshole pushing to the limits within the bounds of taking every possible precaution ie... moon landings, is much different than pushing boundaries with zero attempt at risk mitigation and just saying we good lets go. being an adrenaline junkie is one thing, being an idiot is another. these people and this ceo were idiots not innovators. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:00:04 PM EST
[#29]
1. Did the implosion happen after the sub reached the bottom of its dive, and if the implosion didn't happen on the bottom, at which depth did the implosion occur?
2. Wouldn't the implosion make some kind of sound, and if so, wouldn't someone on the "mothership" have been monitoring for any unusual sounds/noises? 3. If sonar technicians on submarines can identify ships based on the sounds their engines and/or propellers make while under way, wouldn't a sonar technician aboard the mother ship have been able to hear the implosion? If the tour organization didn't have a sonar technician with at least a marginal skill level, that would seem to be a terrible increase in the risk to any potential customers. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:00:12 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What an absolutely stupid straw man. I didn’t realize there were small children aboard. Ok, [i]adults[i/] are responsible for their own safety, Mr. Pedantic. All those aboard were adults. Responsible for their own safety. Responsible for becoming informed about diving down to 6000 psi on their own. They bear some culpability in their deaths. No one forced this trip on them. That’s the harsh reality of dangerous risk taking. It’s on you. Nevermind, I changed the example because it was way better than the original. My point still stands. You're thinking from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand how other people think. People aren't infallible creatures and often turn out to be quite stupid, or ignorant, or inconsiderate, or perhaps a combination of all three. ETA: Nevermind the fact you try to differentiate your stance from ocean liners and passenger jets because somehow, entrusting your safety to the captain of such a vessel is so different from entrusting your safety to the captain of a different type of vessel. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:00:16 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Surprise, most people are stupid and don't have the deductive reasoning skills that you, me, and 87% of the people in this thread have. Please see the ETA on the post you quoted. It makes my point quite well. I see a bit of both sides. It's novel and new and so I would personally want to know a bit about it before I jumped on myself however all these people running their yaps have countless times per year relied on the operator of something to have properly maintained and made safe that system without intensive research despite that thing's failure very likely killing them. I think it was a bit foolish of these passengers to just plunk down the money and ride but certainly the bulk of the blame lies with the man that built and sold access to such a shoddy sub and laughed off and fired anyone that pointed out issues. I'm sure his presentation to them was not one that disclosed the full picture of just how little safety he incorporated in it. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:00:18 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course it's different, and the risks are obviously higher. But the principle's the same... there has to be some level of trust between whoever's providing the ride and the passengers or there's no way to fairly judge the real risk. If those guys had fully understood how many corners had been cut in getting that sub underwater I can't imagine they'd have ever climbed aboard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just like every time you fly on a plane, there's an assumption that the carrier is operating within safety regs and has their ducks more or less in a row. Sounds like much of this was misrepresented to the sub customers, so it would have been impossible for them to have made an informed decision. Lol. Diving to 12,500 feet is a bit different than getting on a commercial airplane. What safety regulations exist for a commercial deep sea tourist submersible operating in international waters? Of course it's different, and the risks are obviously higher. But the principle's the same... there has to be some level of trust between whoever's providing the ride and the passengers or there's no way to fairly judge the real risk. If those guys had fully understood how many corners had been cut in getting that sub underwater I can't imagine they'd have ever climbed aboard. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:00:34 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course it's different, and the risks are obviously higher. But the principle's the same... there has to be some level of trust between whoever's providing the ride and the passengers or there's no way to fairly judge the real risk. If those guys had fully understood how many corners had been cut in getting that sub underwater I can't imagine they'd have ever climbed aboard. There’s no way to judge the risks of diving to 12,500 feet? How come Josh Gates was able to make a determination it was way too unsafe? Luck? Or perhaps he put some forethought and reasoning into it. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:00:46 PM EST
[#34]
The sea took them.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:00:52 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do tell your science. Water is nearly incompressible. You need to be at the bottom of Marianna's trench to see even a 5% difference. But ok... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Depending on the descent rate they were probably very close to the Titanic. The lower it goes, the slower it goes. 15-20 minutes away from the target could have it less than 1000 yards away from it. The denser the water the slower the sink rate. poor attempt at snark. yes, the water down there is more dense. science anyone? the original quote simply stated the water is more dense. which is true based on the effects of temp, pressure, and salinity. maybe 2.4% at the titanic depth, maybe 4.8% at the mariana depth. either way, it is different. you tried to call someone out, dont get all ass-sore when someone else calls you out. welp, that's enough arguing with random internet assholes for today... |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:01:08 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Couple of things as i know fuck all about sub enginering. The window. Ok it deforms and used in other deep subs BUT how are windows mounted in those subs? Steel vs titanium wil flex differently. In other words is there water pressure pushing it in and at the same time squuezing pressure from the titanium deforming due to the pressue on the dome pushing inward? The 'glue'. Again if titanium and the CF were stong enough you still have water pressure pushing agianst the bonding agent. Water at that pressue I would presume would be able to 'seek out' any weakness/paths. Was the glue even rated to the pressures that thing was under? Don’t worry. CEO Rush didn’t know much about submersible design either As for the glue, do you really think after all this, he ordered a resin formulated by cold temps and very high pressures? Did he even spend the $ for some good west system epoxy? Or did he go cheap with some chicom liquid used for making River tabletops? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:01:34 PM EST
[#37]
Shit sucks, but at least they died doing something cool. I keep seeing a bunch of pussies posting disparaging comments on social media about the passengers & how dumb they are from the couch or their Mom’s basement. Probably the same guys we have here who are too terrified to ever leave the US for a vacation.
ETA: in on 87 |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:02:10 PM EST
[#38]
New Ocean advertisement will not include the words sustainable and recycled in the same sentence.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:03:39 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Diving to 12,500 feet is a bit different than getting on a commercial airplane. What safety regulations exist for a commercial deep sea tourist submersible operating in international waters? People flew on Airlines before widespread safety regs. Gross negligence on the part of the operator was still the fault of the operator. I suspect the first commercial passenger plane riders didn't pour over the drawings and records of the company that flew them either. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:03:48 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shit sucks, but at least they died doing something cool. I keep seeing a bunch of pussies posting disparaging comments on social media about the passengers & how dumb they are from the couch or their Mom’s basement. Probably the same guys we have here who are too terrified to ever leave the US for a vacation. ETA: in on 87 Is it better to live in one's mom's basement or die getting crushed with your dad in a septic tank in the ocean? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:04:21 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nevermind, I changed the example because it was way better than the original. My point still stands. You're thinking from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand how other people think. People aren't infallible creatures and often turn out to be quite stupid, or ignorant, or inconsiderate, or perhaps a combination of all three. I understand people. I just don’t get all bent up if people die from their own stupidity or ignorance. These billionaires literally had every resource imaginable to them to verify safety and do a risk assessment. They chose not to. It’s on them. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:04:26 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This was trip 5 Doesn't mean it was safe. They even bragged about it not getting certifications for diving it. Just because you cross the street blind folded a few times and make it across without getting it, doesn't mean it's safe. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:04:39 PM EST
[#43]
They died doing what they loved.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:05:07 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shit sucks, but at least they died doing something cool. I keep seeing a bunch of pussies posting disparaging comments on social media about the passengers & how dumb they are from the couch or their Mom’s basement. Probably the same guys we have here who are too terrified to ever leave the US for a vacation. ETA: in on 87 There's a few people in this thread that don't seem to understand that most people don't autistically research the details of the plane or ship they're traveling on. That applies to billionaires, too. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:05:35 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone still in mastery of their high school math want to calculate the amount of energy that amount of seawater rushing in at that speed represents in foot pounds? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: People don’t understand what they would be recovering. The recent ship that sank in 15,000 feet of water with sailors onboard, those bodies were squeezed into the size of a softball Bodies that experienced a catastrophic implosion would most likely be in pieces and so would be squeezed into even smaller bits, nothing to recover. I don’t get it. What besides the thorax would be crushed ? The legs would be intact wouldn’t they ? For example Anyone still in mastery of their high school math want to calculate the amount of energy that amount of seawater rushing in at that speed represents in foot pounds? I think its somewhere between the ocean trying to explosivly compress you to a diamond and dark matter. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:05:53 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last know signal they sent was at around 3,300m (10,826 FT) So probably right around that depth is when they imploded. The math on that is spookingly accurate..... They said it takes 2 hours (120 min) to get to the Titanic at 12,500 FT.... they lost contact at 1 hour 45 minutes (105 minutes) So 105/120 times 12,500... 10,937 FT vs last known signal at 10,826 FT |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:06:12 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1. Did the implosion happen after the sub reached the bottom of its dive, and if the implosion didn't happen on the bottom, at which depth did the implosion occur? 2. Wouldn't the implosion make some kind of sound, and if so, wouldn't someone on the "mothership" have been monitoring for any unusual sounds/noises? 3. If sonar technicians on submarines can identify ships based on the sounds their engines and/or propellers make while under way, wouldn't a sonar technician aboard the mother ship have been able to hear the implosion? If the tour organization didn't have a sonar technician with at least a marginal skill level, that would seem to be a terrible increase in the risk to any potential customers. They weren’t on the bottom when the implosion took place as far as I can gather. As to #2 and #3, did this ship have good quality equipment and what experience did the crew have? The ocean isn’t a quiet place and apparently the wreck is noisy. I mean, they used a $29 wireless controller with shitty Amazon reviews to control a sub that goes to 12,500ft, so perhaps they scavenged a Mr.Microphone from a thrift shop for their sonar suite. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:06:15 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think there are alot of arm chair experts on this topic now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: FFS, those people went willingly. They all knew the risks. So you're telling me that the average person, let alone the average 19yo, understands submersible construction and standards? Seems like a stretch to me. ETA: there was a news reporter asking about recovering the bodies at the USCG conference. That should tell you all you need to know about the average person's understanding of this subject. I think there are alot of arm chair experts on this topic now. In this thread I've seen saturation divers, submariners, materials engineers, mechanical engineers, aerospace engineers, etc so some of us might know a little about the subject. Just sayin'  Not necessarily detailed human occupancy pressure vessel design codes, but enough to look at this and go "what the fuck, this guy is a complete idiot" |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:06:38 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was no banging. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Could the banging inside the sub caused it to fail? There was no banging. Just one BIG-BADDA-BOOM! |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:07:23 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s no way to judge the risks of diving to 12,500 feet? How come Josh Gates was able to make a determination it was way too unsafe? Luck? Or perhaps he put some forethought and reasoning into it. Josh Gates is an experienced diver, and with the exception of the father and son, the whole team should have known that thing was a disaster waiting to happen. Especially since 2 of them had been down to the Titanic on other subs numerous times. |
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