Posted: 5/18/2015 10:03:43 PM EDT
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I just saw one, for the first time, last Boomershoot. Looked pretty fucking cool. HT ETA: layoffs |
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If their XS2 300 WinMag was $10-11k, I'd buy one today. But it's double that and for that reason, they're out of their damn minds. Their pricing across the board was way too high.
I guess they were hoping for a government contract or something so that price would be no object. I can't imagine the technology was THAT expsnive. If I could buy an AI AWM in 300 WinMag and they would install the conversion kit and the optic for like $5000, for a total of $12-13k, I'd probably be in as well. But $22-25k for one of their bolt guns is and was absolutely insane. |
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If their XS2 300 WinMag was $10-11k, I'd buy one today. But it's double that and for that reason, they're out of their damn minds. Their pricing across the board was way too high. I guess they were hoping for a government contract or something so that price would be no object. I can't imagine the technology was THAT expsnive. If I could buy an AI AWM in 300 WinMag and they would install the conversion kit and the optic for like $5000, for a total of $12-13k, I'd probably be in as well. But $22-25k for one of their bolt guns is and was absolutely insane. Another downside is no windage. I've thought about buying an old aircraft doppler system to see if you can get good enough wind read out of it, but talking to a doppler radar guy, he said there wouldn't be enough particulates at the 1000 yard range to give you fine-grained information. bummer. |
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I never understood what market segment they were going after. Quoted:
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There was some rumblings about them a few months ago. The product is innovative but the cost was sky high for the average joe like they seemed to market to. I never understood what market segment they were going after. People with way, way more money than sense. |
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Quoted: People with way, way more money than sense. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There was some rumblings about them a few months ago. The product is innovative but the cost was sky high for the average joe like they seemed to market to. I never understood what market segment they were going after. People with way, way more money than sense. |
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Quoted: I never understood what market segment they were going after. Quoted: Quoted: There was some rumblings about them a few months ago. The product is innovative but the cost was sky high for the average joe like they seemed to market to. I never understood what market segment they were going after. I know a guy that has one in .338  I'd rather spend the money on ammo |
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I can learn to do the shit Tracking Point does for you a hell of a lot faster than I can learn to see in the dark. Quoted:
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Yeah price seemed odd. Although I guess enough guys buy expensive night vision to keep tnvc going I can learn to do the shit Tracking Point does for you a hell of a lot faster than I can learn to see in the dark. yeah, mil dots are a lot easier than a couple thousand years of evolution 
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Quoted: I never understood what market segment they were going after. Quoted: Quoted: There was some rumblings about them a few months ago. The product is innovative but the cost was sky high for the average joe like they seemed to market to. I never understood what market segment they were going after. |
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.mil is my guess but they didn't seem to know it or did know it and gave up on it and decided to go for the tacticool market Quoted:
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There was some rumblings about them a few months ago. The product is innovative but the cost was sky high for the average joe like they seemed to market to. I never understood what market segment they were going after. Judging by their youtube ads, they couldn't even decide if they were going after the yuppie hunter market, or the yuppie mall ninja market |
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Another downside is no windage. I've thought about buying an old aircraft doppler system to see if you can get good enough wind read out of it, but talking to a doppler radar guy, he said there wouldn't be enough particulates at the 1000 yard range to give you fine-grained information. bummer. Quoted:
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If their XS2 300 WinMag was $10-11k, I'd buy one today. But it's double that and for that reason, they're out of their damn minds. Their pricing across the board was way too high. I guess they were hoping for a government contract or something so that price would be no object. I can't imagine the technology was THAT expsnive. If I could buy an AI AWM in 300 WinMag and they would install the conversion kit and the optic for like $5000, for a total of $12-13k, I'd probably be in as well. But $22-25k for one of their bolt guns is and was absolutely insane. Another downside is no windage. I've thought about buying an old aircraft doppler system to see if you can get good enough wind read out of it, but talking to a doppler radar guy, he said there wouldn't be enough particulates at the 1000 yard range to give you fine-grained information. bummer. Interesting. The Doppler idea is actually pretty awesome...too bad it wouldn't pan out. Couldn't you input wind information into the tracking point scope? I figured you'd do pretty much the same as with a traditional optic: assess the wind, adjust a few clicks, and shoot. |
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Quoted: If their XS2 300 WinMag was $10-11k, I'd buy one today. But it's double that and for that reason, they're out of their damn minds. Their pricing across the board was way too high. I guess they were hoping for a government contract or something so that price would be no object. I can't imagine the technology was THAT expsnive. If I could buy an AI AWM in 300 WinMag and they would install the conversion kit and the optic for like $5000, for a total of $12-13k, I'd probably be in as well. But $22-25k for one of their bolt guns is and was absolutely insane. |
| Wind is key. Windage calls often have to be made very quickly, with no time for adjusting knobs or buttons. With a 1.5 second TOF, you really have to look at where the wind is going to be, rather than what it is. The Tracking Point stuff I've seen didn't look very flexible with respect to wind. |
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Way fucking high. Plenty of us here will spend a good bit of money to have the coolest stuff, but when I looked at it, it was WAAAYYYYY out of my range. Quoted:
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What was the price point of that thing? Way fucking high. Plenty of us here will spend a good bit of money to have the coolest stuff, but when I looked at it, it was WAAAYYYYY out of my range. Who ever could spend that kind of money would likely be the same kind of person who could afford to buy serious NFA/ machine guns, a very small market. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Wind is key. Windage calls often have to be made very quickly, with no time for adjusting knobs or buttons. With a 1.5 second TOF, you really have to look at where the wind is going to be, rather than what it is. The Tracking Point stuff I've seen didn't look very flexible with respect to wind. Tie it into a Kestrel 4500? |
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The concept is fundamentally flawed in a hunting situation. Which part? Streamlining the flow of info; range to target to data(store or calculated by a computer) to shot correction output to the shooter who inputs/holds the correction is key to making long distance hunting shots. The whole focus of integrating electronics into shooting should be taking all that info involved in long distance shooting(minus wind otherthan a basic shot direction vs basic wind speed/direction) and streamlining it's flow to the shooter. Shorten the time it takes to get the correction/hold to the shooter, fundamentals of marksmanship and a complex wind call is still on the shooter. |
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I never understood what market segment they were going after. Quoted:
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There was some rumblings about them a few months ago. The product is innovative but the cost was sky high for the average joe like they seemed to market to. I never understood what market segment they were going after. From their advertising it looked like rich guys, women, and people go could not shoot. |
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Tie it into a Kestrel 4500? Quoted:
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Wind is key. Windage calls often have to be made very quickly, with no time for adjusting knobs or buttons. With a 1.5 second TOF, you really have to look at where the wind is going to be, rather than what it is. The Tracking Point stuff I've seen didn't look very flexible with respect to wind. Tie it into a Kestrel 4500? Was going to say my Kestral works with my phones bluetooth ballistic calculator. Should be simple enough for TP to work with it. 
Hopefully L3 buys what's left of them and gets the price down on it. |
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Interesting. The Doppler idea is actually pretty awesome...too bad it wouldn't pan out. Couldn't you input wind information into the tracking point scope? I figured you'd do pretty much the same as with a traditional optic: assess the wind, adjust a few clicks, and shoot. Quoted:
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If their XS2 300 WinMag was $10-11k, I'd buy one today. But it's double that and for that reason, they're out of their damn minds. Their pricing across the board was way too high. I guess they were hoping for a government contract or something so that price would be no object. I can't imagine the technology was THAT expsnive. If I could buy an AI AWM in 300 WinMag and they would install the conversion kit and the optic for like $5000, for a total of $12-13k, I'd probably be in as well. But $22-25k for one of their bolt guns is and was absolutely insane. Another downside is no windage. I've thought about buying an old aircraft doppler system to see if you can get good enough wind read out of it, but talking to a doppler radar guy, he said there wouldn't be enough particulates at the 1000 yard range to give you fine-grained information. bummer. Interesting. The Doppler idea is actually pretty awesome...too bad it wouldn't pan out. Couldn't you input wind information into the tracking point scope? I figured you'd do pretty much the same as with a traditional optic: assess the wind, adjust a few clicks, and shoot. Clicks. Lol. 
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Was going to say my Kestral works with my phones bluetooth ballistic calculator. Should be simple enough for TP to work with it.
Hopefully L3 buys what's left of them and gets the price down on it. Quoted:
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Wind is key. Windage calls often have to be made very quickly, with no time for adjusting knobs or buttons. With a 1.5 second TOF, you really have to look at where the wind is going to be, rather than what it is. The Tracking Point stuff I've seen didn't look very flexible with respect to wind. Tie it into a Kestrel 4500? Was going to say my Kestral works with my phones bluetooth ballistic calculator. Should be simple enough for TP to work with it.
Hopefully L3 buys what's left of them and gets the price down on it. That's still not as much data as you can get from correctly doping the mirage and not nearly enough to make hits at range. |
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That's still not as much data as you can get from correctly doping the mirage and not nearly enough to make hits at range. Quoted:
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Wind is key. Windage calls often have to be made very quickly, with no time for adjusting knobs or buttons. With a 1.5 second TOF, you really have to look at where the wind is going to be, rather than what it is. The Tracking Point stuff I've seen didn't look very flexible with respect to wind. Tie it into a Kestrel 4500? Was going to say my Kestral works with my phones bluetooth ballistic calculator. Should be simple enough for TP to work with it.
Hopefully L3 buys what's left of them and gets the price down on it. That's still not as much data as you can get from correctly doping the mirage and not nearly enough to make hits at range. Better than the nothing it currently features though.
I know Lockheed was trying to come up with some sort of laser windage calculation system a while back, but haven't heard anything about it lately. |
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Quoted: There was some rumblings about them a few months ago. The product is innovative but the cost was sky high for the average joe like they seemed to market to. Yea was something like $22k for a complete rifle. Thanks but I'll take my chances with my Nightforce. |
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Which part? Streamlining the flow of info; range to target to data(store or calculated by a computer) to shot correction output to the shooter who inputs/holds the correction is key to making long distance hunting shots. The whole focus of integrating electronics into shooting should be taking all that info involved in long distance shooting(minus wind otherthan a basic shot direction vs basic wind speed/direction) and streamlining it's flow to the shooter. Shorten the time it takes to get the correction/hold to the shooter, fundamentals of marksmanship and a complex wind call is still on the shooter. Quoted:
Quoted:
The concept is fundamentally flawed in a hunting situation. Which part? Streamlining the flow of info; range to target to data(store or calculated by a computer) to shot correction output to the shooter who inputs/holds the correction is key to making long distance hunting shots. The whole focus of integrating electronics into shooting should be taking all that info involved in long distance shooting(minus wind otherthan a basic shot direction vs basic wind speed/direction) and streamlining it's flow to the shooter. Shorten the time it takes to get the correction/hold to the shooter, fundamentals of marksmanship and a complex wind call is still on the shooter. You don't understand how the system worked. The basic concept made "fundamentals of accuracy" impossible as the system fired the rifle, not the shooter. Add the extra time to place the mark on the target and this type of system is markedly slower and less precise than current techniques. There is no way to compensate for wind drift. Again this system was fundamentally flawed at many levels for hunting. |
Here ya go complete Tracking Point system. Cheap. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=483386142 |
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Tie it into a Kestrel 4500? Quoted:
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Wind is key. Windage calls often have to be made very quickly, with no time for adjusting knobs or buttons. With a 1.5 second TOF, you really have to look at where the wind is going to be, rather than what it is. The Tracking Point stuff I've seen didn't look very flexible with respect to wind. Tie it into a Kestrel 4500? Even at a lowly 600 yards, my Kestrel wind value isn't representative of the wind across the flight path of the bullet. From a flash card perspective, ranging and drop is relatively quick compared to windage and movement lead, so the Tracking Point (in its current incarnation) is a very expensive tool that streamlines the easier part of the equation. |
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Even at a lowly 600 yards, my Kestrel wind value isn't representative of the wind across the flight path of the bullet. From a flash card perspective, ranging and drop is relatively quick compared to windage and movement lead, so the Tracking Point (in its current incarnation) is a very expensive tool that streamlines the easier part of the equation. Quoted:
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Wind is key. Windage calls often have to be made very quickly, with no time for adjusting knobs or buttons. With a 1.5 second TOF, you really have to look at where the wind is going to be, rather than what it is. The Tracking Point stuff I've seen didn't look very flexible with respect to wind. Tie it into a Kestrel 4500? Even at a lowly 600 yards, my Kestrel wind value isn't representative of the wind across the flight path of the bullet. From a flash card perspective, ranging and drop is relatively quick compared to windage and movement lead, so the Tracking Point (in its current incarnation) is a very expensive tool that streamlines the easier part of the equation. IIRC, you can have 7 bluetooth devices running off of one master.
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Moar Bluetoof!
As technology advances, a scope like this will be competitively marketable, but I just not at the moment. When you look at the price of the TrackingPoint system, you could have - Vectronic Terrapin - Kestrel 4500 BT with Applied Ballistics (not Horus because Horus lacks Magnus drift, I think) - US Optics glass - Nomad 'puter Can the TP scope range as well as a Terrapin? Will the temp sensor be biased by solar load? A Kestrel in the sun/shade makes a difference in DA, but a it's easier to keep a Kestrel shaded, unlike something like the TP scope. Optically and functionally, is this scope going to be as good as US Optics? Ok, adding all of the individual components comes to something like $8k, expensive, yes, but only $4.5k of that is stuck to the one rifle, with $3.5k being portable to other applications. TrackingPoint put a lot of effort into this, and I hate to think about their sunk capital - hopefully their knowledge can migrate over to another future product - losing knowledge may be worse than losing money. |
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that's from a month ago - probably the person in charge of trivial stuff got the axe
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I bet R&D cost quite a bit. Quoted:
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If their XS2 300 WinMag was $10-11k, I'd buy one today. But it's double that and for that reason, they're out of their damn minds. Their pricing across the board was way too high. I guess they were hoping for a government contract or something so that price would be no object. I can't imagine the technology was THAT expsnive. If I could buy an AI AWM in 300 WinMag and they would install the conversion kit and the optic for like $5000, for a total of $12-13k, I'd probably be in as well. But $22-25k for one of their bolt guns is and was absolutely insane. I don't doubt it, but the pricing structure they put in place really worked out for them, didn't it? I don't care how much money you put into R&D for something. Unless you have a guaranteed way to get paid (ie. insurance (drug companies) or government contracts), you have to price your product in a way that allows a reasonable percentage of customers access to it. TP didn't do that. I have 2 machine guns, an MP5 and an M16. The money is there. But I outright refuse to pay that much for a TP rifle. Not when I can have an AI, a MK11, and a MK12 for the same money. If the thing was $11-12k, I would have bought one and I bet more than a few others would have also. I would much rather have a TP than a Barrett .50 cal. And if they made a thousand to three thousand in profit from selling a rifle that could go to R&D costs, that's way more beneficial than selling 1 rifle at $23k with a bit more profit. Its disappointing mostly. It's a really cool technology that I think will definitely become more mainstream as time goes on, assuming someone else picks it up. TP basically had the finished article, minus the windage issues. Its not like it was a concept only. Oh well, guess we'll have to wait a few more years for someone else to try it. |
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that's from a month ago - probably the person in charge of trivial stuff got the axe Quoted:
that's from a month ago - probably the person in charge of trivial stuff got the axe Seems like when a multi-million dollar comany hits the shitter, you'd know 26 days before the doors close.
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I just wonder if they did get a certain contract that specified they could not sell to anyone else. Interesting, but I doubt they would announce, "Due to financial difficulties....." I had the opportunity to shoot one during a demonstration. Cool concept, but as others have stated way too expensive for the average shooter, or even the local Police Department. I wish all the employees well and hope they find a new job quickly. |
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Quoted: I can learn to do the shit Tracking Point does for you a hell of a lot faster than I can learn to see in the dark. Quoted: Quoted: Yeah price seemed odd. Although I guess enough guys buy expensive night vision to keep tnvc going I can learn to do the shit Tracking Point does for you a hell of a lot faster than I can learn to see in the dark.  |
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Quoted: snip Couldn't you input wind information into the tracking point scope? I figured you'd do pretty much the same as with a traditional optic: assess the wind, adjust a few clicks, and shoot. |