Troops cleared of Iraq wrongdoing > General Discussion

Posted: 6/3/2006 3:15:59 AM EDT

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5042036.stm

Troops cleared of Iraq wrongdoing
A US military investigation has found there was no misconduct by US troops over Iraqi civilian deaths in the town of Ishaqi, a spokesman says.

Maj Gen William Caldwell said reports that troops "executed" a family during a raid on a house in March and tried to cover it up were "absolutely false".

Questions over the 11 deaths in Ishaqi come amid a Pentagon inquiry into a bigger alleged massacre in Haditha.

The US has announced extra training in moral and ethical values for troops.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki has criticised coalition forces for what he describes as habitual attacks against civilians.

News in the US this week has been dominated by discussion of the investigations in Iraq, the BBC's Adam Brookes reports from Washington.

The Bush administration has had an exceptionally difficult time focusing public attention on what it says is the progress being made by the new Iraqi government, our correspondent says.

'Correct procedures'

A report filed by Iraqi police accused US troops of rounding up and deliberately shooting 11 people in the house in Ishaqi, including five children and four women, before blowing up the building.

Maj Gen Caldwell said the US investigation into events in Ishaqi, where the military says it was attempting to capture insurgents, had found no wrongdoing on the part of the troops.

Four bodies including that of an insurgent were found after the raid while up to nine "collateral deaths" resulted from the US raid, according to the investigation.

It added that a precise death toll could not be determined because of collapsed walls and debris.

All the correct procedures were followed when troops came under fire as they approached the house, Maj Gen Caldwell said.

"The investigation revealed the ground force commander, while capturing and killing terrorists, operated in accordance with the rules of engagement governing our combat forces in Iraq," he added.

"Allegations that the troops executed a family living in this safe house, and then hid the alleged crimes by directing an air strike, are absolutely false."

The outcome of the Pentagon investigation emerged a day after the BBC released video footage that appears to show the aftermath of US action in Ishaqi, about 100km (60 miles) north of Baghdad.

'Violence commonplace'

The video tape obtained by the BBC shows a number of dead adults and children at the site with what our world affairs editor John Simpson says were clearly gunshot wounds.

The pictures came from a hardline Sunni group opposed to coalition forces.

It has been cross-checked with other images taken at the time of events and is believed to be genuine.

Other probes are being carried out into the alleged massacre at Haditha, and also into claims that an Iraqi man was deliberately killed on 26 April in Hamandiya - and that the circumstances were covered up. Seven marines and a navy sailor are being held over the claims.

The Iraqi government has also launched an investigation into the alleged massacre at Haditha, where eyewitnesses claim US marines shot dead 24 civilians after a roadside bomb attack in November.

Mr Maliki said he would ask the US for the investigative files into the incident.

Violence against civilians was "common among many of the multinational forces", he added.

Many troops had "no respect for citizens, smashing civilian cars and killing on a suspicion or a hunch", he added.

US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Friday that 99.9% of US forces conducted "themselves in an exemplary manner".

-Foxxz

Posted: 6/3/2006 3:19:05 AM EDT

[#1]

Good news.

And thanks for the update.

Posted: 6/3/2006 3:21:46 AM EDT

[#2]

Thank God! All our service men and women over there are facing some seriously hard stuff and yet they do it everyday with no thoughts of quitting.
THANK YOU ALL!

Posted: 6/3/2006 3:26:28 AM EDT

[#3]

Let all those non-believers and doubters suck on that!!!

Posted: 6/3/2006 3:45:44 AM EDT

[#4]

It is my sincere hope that all of these investigations end with the same results as this once finished. But just hearing this particular investigation has concluded and that our guys did things by the book makes me very happy.

Posted: 6/3/2006 4:09:26 AM EDT

[#5]

The US has announced extra training in moral and ethical values for troops.

Oh goody, another plastic tag for their dog tag chain.

Posted: 6/3/2006 4:12:12 AM EDT

[#6]

God bless those Marines.

Max

Posted: 6/3/2006 4:23:34 AM EDT

[#7]

The enemy definately recognizes the fact that the MSM is a ready and willing dupe in their battle against America and are trying their best to capitalize on it

Posted: 6/3/2006 4:32:22 AM EDT

[#8]

Awesome! I'm sure it's not going to be the last time our troops have to go through some BS like this...

Posted: 6/3/2006 4:41:22 AM EDT

[#9]

Civilians, sitting in arm chairs, 7,000 miles from the battlefield, should not be second guessing the actions of soldiers engaged in warfare.

US Soldiers dont need an ethics class, or sensitivity training.
What they need is the lattitude to get the job done effectively.
If that include collateral damage so be it.

We started this war with the intent of protecting America....not Iraq.
I would offer the following to the Iraqi people....

We can continue to wage this campaign as we see fit and at the end when we leave we hand you your vey own sovereign nation. Alternative - we leave today and restore Saddam to his former position.

I hate to sound like an uncaring prick but frankly I dont beleive in nation building, and i dont believe in liberating the oppressed. If you want to sell me the story that the US was defending its interests in Iraq, then fight to fucking win. If killing the enemy makes America safe then do it....I dont need to know about 'hearts & minds'.

Hearts & Minds arent war.....thats politics.
Let the soldiers take care of the war part....and let the politicians do whatever it is that they do.

Incidentally, I raq is contesting the findings that our guys are in the clear. If they push the issue, if it were my decision, I would close up shop and let them deal with their own security nightmare. I see no reason to continue to risk American lives for thier emancipation just so that they can second guess our actions.

Sorry...I just cant find a happy ending in any of this until our guys are home and the middle east religious empires fall.

Posted: 6/3/2006 4:42:31 AM EDT

[#10]

Great news!

Posted: 6/3/2006 4:49:02 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
God bless those Marines.

Yes, we want God to bless our Marines, this article mentions nothing about Marines or the scandal that they are involved with in Iraq.

This article is about another incident supposedly perpetrated by Army troops.

Posted: 6/3/2006 4:50:25 AM EDT

[#12]

Great news!!!!

Posted: 6/3/2006 4:58:48 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Civilians, sitting in arm chairs, 7,000 miles from the battlefield, should not be second guessing the actions of soldiers engaged in warfare.

US Soldiers dont need an ethics class, or sensitivity training.
What they need is the lattitude to get the job done effectively.
If that include collateral damage so be it.

We started this war with the intent of protecting America....not Iraq.
I would offer the following to the Iraqi people....

Hearts & Minds arent war.....thats politics.
Let the soldiers take care of the war part....and let the politicians do whatever it is that they do.

Yeah, become oppressors, by allowing non-combatants to be killed, or civilian property to be destroyed.

Alienate the populace with heavy handed tactics, and the populace will rise up.

Posted: 6/3/2006 5:29:21 AM EDT

[#14]

The populace is going to rise up anyhow,WE ARE the occupying force.We are the invading army.The only way for our boys to win this is to apply overwhelming force wherever it is neccesary.War is not a clean and tidy affair.Does anyone honestly think no american civilians would be injured if the tables were to be turned?

The only way to win a war is by beating the populace into submission,that is reality,polititians and teh gay save da children crowd don't seem to be able to understand that,WAR is the LAST step in diplomacy,to be used when all other recorces(sp)fail. When the locals start HELPING to deal with the insurgents,everything will be better.UNTIL MORAL IMPROOVES,THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE!! If you don't like war,don't put people in charge that are so willing to get into one.Once our boys' are comitted,let them win,When people remmember what a war is,there will be peace.

Posted: 6/3/2006 5:30:51 AM EDT

[#15]

now thats what i like hearing

Posted: 6/3/2006 5:34:02 AM EDT

[#16]

Was this for the original supposed incident? This sounds more like the second reported incident. If so, that is good, but hope that the original one is resolved too.

Posted: 6/3/2006 5:34:32 AM EDT

[#17]

Yoooooooooooo Joe!

Posted: 6/3/2006 5:41:03 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
The populace is going to rise up anyhow,WE ARE the occupying force.We are the invading army.The only way for our boys to win this is to apply overwhelming force wherever it is neccesary.War is not a clean and tidy affair.Does anyone honestly think no american civilians would be injured if the tables were to be turned?The only way to win a war is by beating the populace into submission,that is reality,polititians and teh gay save da children crowd don't seem to be able to understand that,WAR is the LAST step in diplomacy,to be used when all other recorces(sp)fail. When the locals start HELPING to deal with the insurgents,everything will be better.UNTIL MORAL IMPROOVES,THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE!! If you don't like war,don't put people in charge that are so willing to get into one.Once our boys' are comitted,let them win,When people remmember what a war is,there will be peace.

That's the stategy the Nazi's tried in occupied Europe...............................

Posted: 6/3/2006 5:52:10 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Was this for the original supposed incident? This sounds more like the second reported incident. If so, that is good, but hope that the original one is resolved too.

Yes (as mentioned in the articel) the is the second incident that the military was looking into, in Ishaqi from March of this year, NOT the supposed massacre by a unit of Marines in Haditha from November of last year that's been in the news a lot lately.

Hopefully, the Haditha thing will turn out to be nothing the Marines did wrong as well. Fingers crossed.

Posted: 6/3/2006 5:58:41 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The populace is going to rise up anyhow,WE ARE the occupying force.We are the invading army.The only way for our boys to win this is to apply overwhelming force wherever it is neccesary.War is not a clean and tidy affair.Does anyone honestly think no american civilians would be injured if the tables were to be turned?The only way to win a war is by beating the populace into submission,that is reality,polititians and teh gay save da children crowd don't seem to be able to understand that,WAR is the LAST step in diplomacy,to be used when all other recorces(sp)fail. When the locals start HELPING to deal with the insurgents,everything will be better.UNTIL MORAL IMPROOVES,THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE!! If you don't like war,don't put people in charge that are so willing to get into one.Once our boys' are comitted,let them win,When people remmember what a war is,there will be peace.

That's the stategy the Nazi's tried in occupied Europe...............................

And to change thier minds we carpet bombed ever city we could , reguardless of civilian losses,I stand by my post,when you occupy a country,it's not about winning hearts& minds,It's about obtaining the complete and total controle,while suffering as few losses as possible.Diplomacy is over.

Posted: 6/3/2006 5:58:50 AM EDT

[#21]

Haditha is the incident that Bush spoke about earlier this week.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5033648.stm

Posted: 6/3/2006 6:05:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
The populace is going to rise up anyhow,WE ARE the occupying force.We are the invading army.The only way for our boys to win this is to apply overwhelming force wherever it is neccesary.War is not a clean and tidy affair.Does anyone honestly think no american civilians would be injured if the tables were to be turned?The only way to win a war is by beating the populace into submission,that is reality,polititians and teh gay save da children crowd don't seem to be able to understand that,WAR is the LAST step in diplomacy,to be used when all other recorces(sp)fail. When the locals start HELPING to deal with the insurgents,everything will be better.UNTIL MORAL IMPROOVES,THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE!! If you don't like war,don't put people in charge that are so willing to get into one.Once our boys' are comitted,let them win,When people remmember what a war is,there will be peace.

If the populace were to actually rise up, we'd be slaughtered.

If US soldiers act in a humane and professional manner, maybe just maybe the average Iraqi will side with us instead of the militias, who act in the exact manner that you suggest.

Posted: 6/3/2006 6:28:27 AM EDT

[#23]

I really believe the "average iraqi" does like the idea of our troops running the show.I agree that if the populace over there decided we gotta go,it would happen.However,to view our troops as humanitarians is just unrealistic.When jihad joe pops off AK rounds and everyone in his immediate area pays the price it goes alot further in making sure his cousin akmed doesn't try to pull the same shit on the next block.Has there ever been a war won by winning the hearts and minds of the enemy??? To win a war,you have to make the repercussions of negetive actions so horrific that the enemy looses the will to fight.Or,the accepted leaders of said people are forced to come back to the diplomatic table.Unforunatly it is no different than a bully on the playground,until he gets stopped,he will continue to be a bully.I'm not saying I'm a fan of war,I'm saying the reality of what a war is has escaped the average american.Our boys are starting to figure it out now,the hard way.Give them the right to win.And there is only one way to do that.

Posted: 6/3/2006 6:33:39 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Was this for the original supposed incident? This sounds more like the second reported incident. If so, that is good, but hope that the original one is resolved too.

Yes (as mentioned in the articel) the is the second incident that the military was looking into, in Ishaqi from March of this year, NOT the supposed massacre by a unit of Marines in Haditha from November of last year that's been in the news a lot lately.

Hopefully, the Haditha thing will turn out to be nothing the Marines did wrong as well. Fingers crossed.

+1

Posted: 6/3/2006 6:48:35 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Civilians, sitting in arm chairs, 7,000 miles from the battlefield, should not be second guessing the actions of soldiers engaged in warfare.

US Soldiers dont need an ethics class, or sensitivity training.
What they need is the lattitude to get the job done effectively.
If that include collateral damage so be it.

We started this war with the intent of protecting America....not Iraq.
I would offer the following to the Iraqi people....

Hearts & Minds arent war.....thats politics.
Let the soldiers take care of the war part....and let the politicians do whatever it is that they do.

Yeah, become oppressors, by allowing non-combatants to be killed, or civilian property to be destroyed.

Alienate the populace with heavy handed tactics, and the populace will rise up.

um.. kinda the way the population rose up and removed sadum from power...

Posted: 6/3/2006 6:54:08 AM EDT

[#26]

Good news they have been cleared!!!!

Posted: 6/3/2006 7:03:38 AM EDT

[#27]

Looks like the Marines need to take a lesson from the Army (for once).......Blow up the house afterwards!!!....Come on Devil Dogs, THINK!!!

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