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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:09:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Why isn’t Russia conducting a strategic air campaign against Ukrainian? All I ever see is small unit operations Because they couldn't gain air superiority. i.e. Their shit will get shot down. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:11:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Does Ukrainian have that strong an Air Force? What about their Backfire, and Badger bombers?
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:13:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does Ukrainian have that strong an Air Force? No. The Russians are that bad. That Russia couldn't take complete air supremacy on day one tells you everything you need to know about them as a superpower. Hell they weren't and still aren't even doing effective SEAD. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:15:26 PM EDT
[#4]
With The United States in Europe sending tanks, where will we go from here? It seems that that’s a huge slap in the face to Putin.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:16:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Because they can't.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:23:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With The United States in Europe sending tanks, where will we go from here? It seems that that’s a huge slap in the face to Putin. Whp gives a fuck what Putin thinks. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:24:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Well, I do, the motherfucker has his finger on the button of a lot of nuclear weapons.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:26:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does Ukrainian have that strong an Air Force? They have a strong Anti-Air Force |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:29:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whp gives a fuck what Putin thinks. Because Russia sucks something fierce, we could roll them back to the border no problem, and we aren't. They're raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags. Yet we, the foremost military in the history of mankind, have taken a fucking year to decide to someday send 30 tanks. We either care what Putin thinks or we are really crappy humans. I'm rooting for caring about Putin. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:30:06 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:34:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because they couldn't gain air superiority. i.e. Their shit will get shot down. Literally the first day of the war their attempt at a high speed VDV operation to seize Kiev and take control of the government went down in flames as those IL-76 full of what were probably Russia's top tier SF troops were shot down. If that operation had succeeded, Ukraine would probably already be Russian territory. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:38:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I do, the motherfucker has his finger on the button of a lot of nuclear weapons. So did his predecessors when we sent Stingers to Afghanistan and they lost that war too. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:41:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I do, the motherfucker has his finger on the button of a lot of nuclear weapons. you think he is going to nuke us for sending tanks in to Ukraine next year? |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:42:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Literally the first day of the war their attempt at a high speed VDV operation to seize Kiev and take control of the government went down in flames as those IL-76 full of what were probably Russia's top tier SF troops were shot down. If that operation had succeeded, Ukraine would probably already be Russian territory. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because they couldn't gain air superiority. i.e. Their shit will get shot down. Literally the first day of the war their attempt at a high speed VDV operation to seize Kiev and take control of the government went down in flames as those IL-76 full of what were probably Russia's top tier SF troops were shot down. If that operation had succeeded, Ukraine would probably already be Russian territory. For what it's worth, that appears to have been some fog of war. Oryx has zero IL-76 recorded losses and one of those would stand out. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:43:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I do, the motherfucker has his finger on the button of a lot of nuclear weapons. Trying to get in the mind of a crazy person will only make you crazy. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:45:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does Ukrainian have that strong an Air Force? What about their Backfire, and Badger bombers? Well, the Badgers were all retired so we haven't seen any of them yet. For other bombers, Ukraine has had plenty of air launched cruise missiles shot at them so it's fair to assume something is sending them. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:45:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trying to get in the mind of a crazy person will only make you crazy. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:51:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So here's the problem with that. Either we care what he thinks or we are profiteering warmongers that want a long drawn out war. Because Russia sucks something fierce, we could roll them back to the border no problem, and we aren't. They're raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags. Yet we, the foremost military in the history of mankind, have taken a fucking year to decide to someday send 30 tanks. We either care what Putin thinks or we are really crappy humans. I'm rooting for caring about Putin. Well that isn't what my post was addressing. My post was addressing Putin being butt hurt because of the tanks. As to your point you said in another thread "They have every right to fight for their country. But my country is broke, so they don't have a right to use my tax dollars to do it." So spare me the "crappy human" talk. Your statement tells me you don't give two shits about the Russians "raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags". You clearly don't want "your tax dollars" going to stop Russians "raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags" If you have since changed your opinion I agree with you. On day 1 hell even before we should have sent arms to Ukraine to stop Russians "raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags" |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:53:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I do, the motherfucker has his finger on the button of a lot of nuclear weapons. And he knows what the response will be. He doesn't want that. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 5:55:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So did his predecessors when we sent Stingers to Afghanistan and they lost that war too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, I do, the motherfucker has his finger on the button of a lot of nuclear weapons. So did his predecessors when we sent Stingers to Afghanistan and they lost that war too. We did proxy wars for half a century. Another one doesn't change that. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 6:01:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I do, the motherfucker has his finger on the button of a lot of nuclear weapons. The fat suburbanite gun talisman argument - scaled up. I wonder if I've cracked the code on anti-Ukrainian nuclear apocalypse posturing. (The answer being: no, your safe of 50 guns isn't going to make me respect you or stop me slapping you at the kids' little league game. You aren't going to 'snap' and even if you did wifey is going to grab your arm because she knows the cops will smoke you later.) |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 6:35:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For what it's worth, that appears to have been some fog of war. Oryx has zero IL-76 recorded losses and one of those would stand out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Because they couldn't gain air superiority. i.e. Their shit will get shot down. Literally the first day of the war their attempt at a high speed VDV operation to seize Kiev and take control of the government went down in flames as those IL-76 full of what were probably Russia's top tier SF troops were shot down. If that operation had succeeded, Ukraine would probably already be Russian territory. For what it's worth, that appears to have been some fog of war. Oryx has zero IL-76 recorded losses and one of those would stand out. Yep, also VDV did land at the airport via low flying helicopters. The actual combat footage is or was on youtube. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:08:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well that isn't what my post was addressing. My post was addressing Putin being butt hurt because of the tanks. As to your point you said in another thread "They have every right to fight for their country. But my country is broke, so they don't have a right to use my tax dollars to do it." So spare me the "crappy human" talk. Your statement tells me you don't give two shits about the Russians "raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags". You clearly don't want "your tax dollars" going to stop Russians "raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags" If you have since changed your opinion I agree with you. On day 1 hell even before we should have sent arms to Ukraine to stop Russians "raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags" I'd rather avoid a fight all together, but if Ukraine is really worth saving as so many claim...lets save it. If not, lets not spend hundreds of billions with little to no oversight playing masters of the universe on someone else's continent because we think we're the smartest people in the room, and we just bought a fuckload of raytheon and lockmart stock. Cause that's exactly what's happening. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:14:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With The United States in Europe sending tanks, where will we go from here? It seems that that’s a huge slap in the face to Putin. Putin has two choices: lose or use nukes. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:16:19 PM EDT
[#25]
They would love to. But they can't.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:51:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does Ukrainian have that strong an Air Force? What about their Backfire, and Badger bombers? You need to update your AOB. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:58:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Ukraine got its tanks. Now it wants jet fighters too
They don't need fighters, they need drones. They would not be able to use fighters in any realistic way. Also, manned combat aircraft is on the way out. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:59:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Because it's a scam for the democrats to launder tax payer money into their pockets.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:00:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't want my tax dollars flowing through a documented corrupt system (the US state department) and into a documented corrupt country where maybe....and I'm being fucking generous here...maybe 50% of my tax dollars even get the opportunity to do something useful. That system is designed to buy influence and promote corruption. It's intentionally wasteful and the people that run it have a history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Because they are all cut from the same cloth of Ivy league schools and DC influence society. I'd rather avoid a fight all together, but if Ukraine is really worth saving as so many claim...lets save it. If not, lets not spend hundreds of billions with little to no oversight playing masters of the universe on someone else's continent because we think we're the smartest people in the room, and we just bought a fuckload of raytheon and lockmart stock. Cause that's exactly what's happening. The US State Department wil be selling Patriot sysems on CraigsList apparently  Think of the joyus ATF form possibilities. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:01:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And we lost when they sent Mig-21's to Vietnam. We did proxy wars for half a century. Another one doesn't change that. If you're going to use history to justify policy, use actual history. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:03:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Putin has robbed his country blind. Money that should have gone into his military has been stolen by him and his Oligarch buddies !!! His mighty army is just a shadow hiding behind his nuclear arsenal.
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:06:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because it's a scam for the democrats to launder tax payer money into their pockets. Of which threr is no actual proof. Conservatives shoul be above this sort of nonsense and base their opinion on facts as it's differentiates them from liberal emotional arguments. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:09:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, the Badgers were all retired so we haven't seen any of them yet. For other bombers, Ukraine has had plenty of air launched cruise missiles shot at them so it's fair to assume something is sending them. They’ve been doing exactly that, it’s been in some articles that they have used their bombers like bears and backfires to launch cruise missiles. The bombers never get very close to Ukrainian airspace at all, so Ukrainian ground based air defenses aren’t a threat to them. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:13:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does Ukrainian have that strong an Air Force? What about their Backfire, and Badger bombers? Badgers? Bro, you gotta update that 1984 Jane's book. 
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:36:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Gotta get past these two first:
 
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Posted: 1/26/2023 11:10:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're going to use history to justify policy, use actual history. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And we lost when they sent Mig-21's to Vietnam. We did proxy wars for half a century. Another one doesn't change that. If you're going to use history to justify policy, use actual history. Why? |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:33:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: screen name checks out 
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:40:02 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So here's the problem with that. Either we care what he thinks or we are profiteering warmongers that want a long drawn out war. Because Russia sucks something fierce, we could roll them back to the border no problem, and we aren't. They're raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags. Yet we, the foremost military in the history of mankind, have taken a fucking year to decide to someday send 30 tanks. We either care what Putin thinks or we are really crappy humans. I'm rooting for caring about Putin. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Whp gives a fuck what Putin thinks. Because Russia sucks something fierce, we could roll them back to the border no problem, and we aren't. They're raping, pillaging, kidnapping children, planning gulags and generally being epic shitbags. Yet we, the foremost military in the history of mankind, have taken a fucking year to decide to someday send 30 tanks. We either care what Putin thinks or we are really crappy humans. I'm rooting for caring about Putin. It's called "keeping some cards to play". |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:43:57 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And we lost when they sent Mig-21's to Vietnam. We did proxy wars for half a century. Another one doesn't change that. That's not what happened at all, but you do you |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:52:10 AM EDT
[#40]
They do hit the railyards between Poland and Ukraine. Different gauge tracks (it's been that way since the Soviet era when the Soviets didn't want Western trains to roll easily into the Soviet Union. So, stuff has to be unloaded from Western trains, reloaded onto Ukrainian trains for shipment close to the front. The Russians hit those yards and destroy a lot of equipment there. We know this and don't care. Just give more aid (old US equipment so we can give our own defense contractors new orders for new equipment).
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:52:19 AM EDT
[#41]
Ukraine has a decent mix of soviet era air defense systems plus they're getting NASAMS and Patriot. Plus all the MANPADS floating around. Russia never really suppressed them completely on their initial invasion.
It's not an area I'd really want to be flying in if I was a Russian pilot. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:52:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of which threr is no actual proof. Conservatives shoul be above this sort of nonsense and base their opinion on facts as it's differentiates them from liberal emotional arguments. So Hunter Biden's job with Burisma was based upon his deep knowledge of the Oil/Gas industry? |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:53:29 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: And we lost when they sent Mig-21's to Vietnam. We did proxy wars for half a century. Another one doesn't change that. If you're going to use history to justify policy, use actual history. Why? Good point. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:55:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For what it's worth, that appears to have been some fog of war. Oryx has zero IL-76 recorded losses and one of those would stand out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Because they couldn't gain air superiority. i.e. Their shit will get shot down. Literally the first day of the war their attempt at a high speed VDV operation to seize Kiev and take control of the government went down in flames as those IL-76 full of what were probably Russia's top tier SF troops were shot down. If that operation had succeeded, Ukraine would probably already be Russian territory. For what it's worth, that appears to have been some fog of war. Oryx has zero IL-76 recorded losses and one of those would stand out. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:55:49 AM EDT
[#45]
Ukraine would have been toast if it weren't for all the "Help" they got
One of the most corrupt countries had nothing because they pissed all the money away on themselves |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:57:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine would have been toast if it weren't for all the "Help" they got One of the most corrupt countries had nothing because they pissed all the money away on themselves How is that related to the question about strategic air usage? |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:58:42 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, also VDV did land at the airport via low flying helicopters. The actual combat footage is or was on youtube. They did loose a few helicopters, video footage. And they did parachute about 50 dudes into the black sea.. There is also a few photos of a transport plane shot down with dead paratroopers in it. I have no idea what the model was. Looked like about 30 guys. But yes, VDV did seize objectives. The problem is the support collums didn't link up 24-48hrs later and the VDV units were crushed. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:59:59 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Why isn’t Russia conducting a strategic air campaign against Ukrainian? All I ever see is small unit operations God willing, the backdoor channels between Israel and Iran, can get Russia rearmed, and turn this into a real war. Hopefully the sending of tanks, will light a fire under their ass, to really get this thing escalating. They've been teasing with an invasion from Belarus, and talking shit about nuking someone. Hopefully they finally pull the trigger, or way may need to black flag a school house. I mean how exactly are we going to get out of this imploding global debt bomb, if we don't kickoff WWIII. It worked for FDR. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 11:01:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of which threr is no actual proof. Conservatives shoul be above this sort of nonsense and base their opinion on facts as it's differentiates them from liberal emotional arguments. Exactly. This is 101 *Reeeeee Trump Racsissmsss and hates whammann* squawking. $48-100B is not even a rounding error in our $5 Trillion budget. It's lint from our pockets. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 11:08:59 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine would have been toast if it weren't for all the "Help" they got One of the most corrupt countries had nothing because they pissed all the money away on themselves They spent over 4% of their GDP on the military. The problem is, they are such a small country compared to Russia, that 4% only equates to $6 billion. *2020 #'s |
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