[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Unions (Page 1 of 5)
Posted: 9/4/2008 8:02:03 AM EDT
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Teacher's unions have destroyed public education, which in itself is a failed product of the government. This "fire the whole lot and start over" thing.... well, unions are at the bottom of that barrel. |
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Worked at Safeway Grocery store for 5 years and had to join the Local 400 One bag boy who was ALWAYS late by at least 15 minutes, and had received warnings about it, one night showed up an hour late and piss DRUNK. And yes he drove his piss drunk self to work too. They fired him. A week later he was back. The union said he had to be given a warning first.  Yes. I got higher pay and benefits because I was union. But that is bullshit to force the store to hire him back! |
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Quoted:
Worked at Safeway Grocery store for 5 years and had to join the Local 400 One bag boy who was ALWAYS late by at least 15 minutes, and had received warnings about it, one night showed up an hour late and piss DRUNK. And yes he drove his piss drunk self to work too. They fired him. A week later he was back. The union said he had to be given a warning first. 
Yes. I got higher pay and benefits because I was union. But that is bullshit to force the store to hire him back! E.... |
Get back to me when you make fuck all an hour, after your job goes to China.  Then you'll find yourself in a very unique position... The realization that all the other jobs have left, and you get to make $8/hr now. I hope you're living debt free. |
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Unions are supposed to ensure that the collective bargaining agreement between labor and business is followed. When they start to step outside ensuring that is followed it because a problem. I am in a union (local but a part of a state wide group) and am a local officer so I deal with issues like that all the time. I don't know about strikes because we can't. I understand the reason but it seems that strikes are used to often and to fast in the process. Joe |
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Quoted:
Quoted:they are the reason I make 30 dollars an hour,
Get back to me when you make fuck all an hour, after your job goes to China. 
Then you'll find yourself in a very unique position... The realization that all the other jobs have left, and you get to make $8/hr now. I hope you're living debt free. .... . |
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I make a good living, benefit from clear and concise work rules, and retain veto power to keep myself and the public safe, due to a union. Imagine for a moment, a pilot pressured to take a broken airplane flying. Fly it or you're fired. Eventually a few will cave, and hapless people will die. This very scenario happens in remote, non-union corners of the industry. The 30's airmail contracts were a bloodbath for this exact reason. But instead your airline pilots don't have to make the decision between a marginally unsafe flight and food on the table. Avid unionist AND conservative, somebody will be along shortly to say that's a contradiction. As for "biggest domestic enemy," apparently you haven't been keeping up with the DU threads. Admittedly unions almost universally endorse Democrat candidates, but it hasn't got them anything. Further union dues cannot legally be used for political purposes. Union PACs get less than 30% membership participation, so they aren't getting your favorite Democrat into office with any reliability. Much bigger fish to fry on the national scene. Further, it's nice to see Palin proudly introduce her United Steelworker husband. |
I have worked for a Union for 17 years now and I am quite happy. I am also a die hard Republican. While I would love to expound on the virtues (and vices) of Unions, I have learned in my 4 years on this site that I would be better off asking for opinions of Sarah Palin on www.democraticunderground.com. |
Socialist how? Don't the members elect their officers and representatives? |
sure, they were doing good back then and were needed. comparing the unions of the 30's to the unions of today is like apples and oranges. the most i'll ever give unions is that they have their place, but the few assholes and corrupt officials ruin it for everyone. earning what you're worth FTMFW |
Look at the Boeing deal, the Union is getting one of the best deals in the industry and they still want to strike. Thats what companies like Airbus want, they want us to strike so companies will buy their planes and American will lose jobs here. Yes in some way Union are good, they help by making sure companies don't prey on the little guy, but they also don't look at the big picture sometimes and only care about themselves. |
I think the Boeing deal is more about longetivity than wage increase. They are trying to curtail outsourcing and subcontracting of the machinists. What good is an 11% wage increase over 3 years if you're going to be looking for work before the contract is up. Just what I've gathered from skimming the news over the past week. |
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I was born and raised in a union state, and have belonged to unions. I took them for granted, and wasn't necessarily pro or anti union. I moved to Texas in 1985, and noticed there was much less middle class. Where I grew up, even if a guy got dirty at work he made enough to feed and house his family. In Texas, an anti union "right to work" state, the blue collar makes much less and seems to have a lower standard of living. I know someone's gonna come along and say if you don't like your job, get an education and move up. That is often a viable argument, but some folks just aren't smart enough or prepared enough to take on academia. We still need skilled labor in this country. I agree that many unions are corrupt, and I don't like how they've become a wing of the Democratic party, but that is up to union members to force change. |
You're being intentionally obtuse. |
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Unions represent about 12% of workers across the US in 2007, down from 20% in 1983. Gov't workers are the largest segment of union members across the nation, number 5 times that of private business. 35% of gov't workers are union members compared to 7.5% of private business employees. Unions have very little effect on the economy in this day and time because they represent so few American workers. If you blame unions for the economic plight of jobs still being shipped off shore, you are swallowing one big line of BS. Personally I believe unions gave many Americans a much better standard of living. I also believe modern day union leadership is worthless - empty shirts who talk union but are only interested in maintaining their positions. |
fail. there is always a guy with non union labor doing the same work you are doing but is charging less. you guys be it Operators, or laborers, or teamsters get jobs that require union workers to do it. atliest thats how i see it. hence you get big state jobs, while the guy without union workers and guys he pays 12-15$ an hour to work there asses off, gets smaller jobs for homeowners etc. He still makes out ok however, but he cant become the biggest guy around, since he doesnt hire union workers, and cant get those multi million dollar jobs that are all over. Unions are a requirement for quite a few jobs in Illinois. Until that is gone, Unions will always exist since theres so much bullshit involved with them and keeping them going. |
This is the truth right here. The original idea of unions to negotiate better work conditions and keep a company(who has a monopoly on the local job market) from paying employees so little that a family cannot live is one thing , but modern labor unions only serve to keep companies from creating American jobs , keep American products unreasonably expensive , and promote an entitlement mentality by forcing companies to pay their labor force 2 or 3 times what a free market would bear. |
I have just about the same view. I only add a couple things, they are partially why manufacturing jobs are going to Mexico. They demand $30/hr for their workers, its good for the workers but not so good for the company in some cases. One specific case that I can think of is the UAW. When I worked in health insurance we administered the GM retiree benefits. From what I saw, these guys had insurance that was the same if not better than congress. The other problem I see with them is that they will protect workers who don't deserve to work there. With all that said, they do good things. Without unions we would still have conditions like Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. Fire, police and EMS unions make sure that cops have bullet proof vests, firemen have adequate equipment, and EMTs have the proper safety precautions. In all I think unions are the necessary evils of our world. |
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Any union member who claims to be a conservative is at best a hypocrite. At worst a liar. It is like claiming to be for the 2nd, but sending the Brady Campaign a check every month so your pay check will be a bit higher. Some people are willing to sell out their beliefs and integrity for a few dollars more a week. some folks actually value their integrity. |
I don't care about unions, as much as I care about people being able to do what they want with their property. Workers should be able to spend their money on what they want, how they want. The problem is that rights of business owners and employeers has been nuetuered, giving an unfair balance to the workers. |
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Its funny when people try to defend unions. Keyword: Try What unions started out as, was indeed, good and necessary at that time. Now they wield too much power, and have far too many politicians in their pockets. "Oh but they only represent 17% of the workforce down from 20%" blah blah blah. They represent the vast majority in my city, and I'm sure many others. And they are corrupt as fuck. Just as corrupt as the fucking politicians. I see them scamming each other even! The reason the union workforce number is in decline is painfully obvious. Where has our steel industry gone? Where has our auto industry gone? Manufacturing in general? You know the answer. And you know it's because having a break room full of fat fucks sitting on their ass reading magazines and watching tv, week after week, while earning $30/hr and guaranteed a lifetime of full pension and benefits... is not productive whatsoever to the company or it's bottom line. You think this is beneficial to America as a whole? How can you possibly defend this?  Thats why the union workforce is shrinking. Because Americans won't subsidize that workforce by paying $35,000 for a car worth $8,000 at best. Because forcing companies to pay double what people are worth... isn't worth it. Off to China and Mexico and everywhere else they go. Enjoy your $8/hr, ya earned it. |