Posted: 2/14/2012 4:58:31 AM EDT
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So the Walmart pistol-whipping incident (and a multitude of other threads) got me thinking...
What do you non-LEOs (or LEOs traipsing about off-duty) typically carry every day to account for various self defense situations that may require differing levels of force? For me, I'm finding it's just not practical to carry more than a gun. Depending on my plans for the day or evening, I might carry a flashlight and/or pepper spray instead. Unfortunately, Ohio law frowns upon carrying a concealed knife (or pretty much anything else) as a weapon. 
So... What all do you typically carry? __________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» |
If Fox labs doesn't cool the threat down its time to ventilate. I don't see any need for something in between because something like an ASP baton has a very thin line before you enter deadly force waters and if you're going to cross that line, shoot the fucker.  Edit: off topic but where can I find info on Ohio's knife laws. I'm heading up there and I want to make sure I don't run a foul with a 3" folding knife on my belt. |
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Quoted:
If Fox labs doesn't cool the threat down its time to ventilate. I don't see any need for something in between because something like an ASP baton has a very thin line before you enter deadly force waters and if you're going to cross that line, shoot the fucker.
Edit: off topic but where can I find info on Ohio's knife laws. I'm heading up there and I want to make sure I don't run a foul with a 3" folding knife on my belt. If you're only carrying it as a "cutting tool," then you're probably gtg, even "concealed" like a pocket knife. Just don't carry it as a weapon. Here's a place to start. I haven't really looked into the knife laws too much. ETA: There was a court case where the judge basically said the state has to prove you're carrying the knife specifically and primarily for use as a weapon, and/or prove you're not carrying it primarily as a "cutting tool." ETA: From that thread: "[A] knife is not presumed to be a deadly weapon, even if it is concealed." Columbus v. Dawson (1986), 28 Ohio App.3d 45, 46. This Court has previously stated that to convict a defendant "of carrying a deadly weapon, the state must prove either 1) that the knife was designed or specifically adapted for use as a weapon, or 2) that the defendant possessed, carried, or used the knife as a weapon." State v. Cathel (1998), 127 Ohio App.3d 408, 412, citing Dawson, 28 Ohio App. 3d at 46.
What I get out of this is A: if I carry a knife, I'll only carry a cutting tool, and B: I don't carry something that was obviously designed as a weapon. __________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» |
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Quoted:
If Fox labs doesn't cool the threat down its time to ventilate. I don't see any need for something in between because something like an ASP baton has a very thin line before you enter deadly force waters and if you're going to cross that line, shoot the fucker.
Edit: off topic but where can I find info on Ohio's knife laws. I'm heading up there and I want to make sure I don't run a foul with a 3" folding knife on my belt. There is no "thin line" with an ASP or any other impact tool. It's a very broad, clear line. No strikes to the head/neck, soft tissue of the throat or groin. Strikes to these areas are considered an application of lethal force. The first issue is training or lack thereof. Effective use of an impact tool requires training. Proper technique is paramount if you want to get the desired results. The larger issue for most non-LEOs is distance. You have to close distance to strike and in most cases in a defensive scenario, you want to create distance. OC easily accessible by the weak hand is a much better option. OC does have it's drawbacks. God forbid you get contamined with OC during a defensive encounter as it can seriously jack up your OODA loop if it's your first time exposure. Edit: To answer the OP's question, I carry a pistol, two mags, a back-up, a couple of speed strips, a fixed blade weak-side belt and occasionally some FOX labs, also weak-side. The FOX is primarily for aggressive dogs. I'd rather hose a pooch first if I can. As to carrying fixed blades, check your local laws first and make sure you are good to go. |
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I've been in three physical fights in the 20 years I've carried. One involved multiple attackers and one involved a guy with a pool cue.
It's hairy, but I'm very grateful that I didn't have to shoot anyone. My life would be much different if I had. If you carry a gun, it's my opinion that you have a responsibility to make sure you train in martial arts and weapons retention, as well. YMMV. |
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there is no "force continuum" for non LEO
There is Situational Awareness There is Avoidance/De-escalation There is forcing your attacker to stop their attack with your firearm You ARE NOT required (by Ohio law) to meet an attack with a specified level force in response. You ARE required (by Ohio law) to not have entered into mutual combat or have been the protagonist beyond that, if you are in fear for your life or serious physical harm you should be shooting. A guy attacking me with his hands, after I have tried to leave the area and verbally stated my intent to leave/my desire to not fight, gets stopped with the most effective means at my disposal. |
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Quoted:
there is no "force continuum" for non LEO There is Situational Awareness There is Avoidance/De-escalation There is forcing your attacker to stop their attack with your firearm You ARE NOT required (by Ohio law) to meet an attack with a specified level force in response. You ARE required (by Ohio law) to not have entered into mutual combat or have been the protagonist beyond that, if you are in fear for your life or serious physical harm you should be shooting. A guy attacking me with his hands, after I have tried to leave the area and verbally stated my intent to leave/my desire to not fight, gets stopped with the most effective means at my disposal. NC is very similar. Its amazing that i have carried for almost 10 years and yet to have gotten into a physical altercation that was not avoidable by either situational awareness and desescelation. |
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Quoted:
there is no "force continuum" for non LEO There is Situational Awareness There is Avoidance/De-escalation There is forcing your attacker to stop their attack with your firearm You ARE NOT required (by Ohio law) to meet an attack with a specified level force in response. You ARE required (by Ohio law) to not have entered into mutual combat or have been the protagonist beyond that, if you are in fear for your life or serious physical harm you should be shooting. A guy attacking me with his hands, after I have tried to leave the area and verbally stated my intent to leave/my desire to not fight, gets stopped with the most effective means at my disposal. For me, legality is just part of it. Morally/ethically, if I must use force to protect myself, I'd like to do so using the minimum level of force necessary to stop the attack. __________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
there is no "force continuum" for non LEO There is Situational Awareness There is Avoidance/De-escalation There is forcing your attacker to stop their attack with your firearm You ARE NOT required (by Ohio law) to meet an attack with a specified level force in response. You ARE required (by Ohio law) to not have entered into mutual combat or have been the protagonist beyond that, if you are in fear for your life or serious physical harm you should be shooting. A guy attacking me with his hands, after I have tried to leave the area and verbally stated my intent to leave/my desire to not fight, gets stopped with the most effective means at my disposal. For me, legality is just part of it. Morally/ethically, if I must use force to protect myself, I'd like to do so using the minimum level of force necessary to stop the attack. __________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» And i got no issue with that. Self defense is a personal choice and there is no one right answer. laws differ from place to place and peoples ability, finacial security, emotional and legal preparedness all comes into play. As long as everyone at least thinks about defending them selves then thats the best i can hope for from any one. |
