Posted: 6/20/2006 6:59:13 PM EDT
| Is it possible to use your own AR-15/M-16 for combat in Iraq? Has something like this ever been allowed? I'm going to be deployed around there in 3 months and I know that my weapon configuration is much better than the ones being issued. |
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Sorry, you're SOL, unless your armorer and commander (and probably your commander's commander) will let you modify a .mil weapon with an upper, buttstock, etc. Bringing your own handgun is also a no-no. But for a consolation prize, BB guns are usually allowed to help thin the rat hordes. |
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Taking privately-owned weapons into theater is a violation of General Order No. 1: 2. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES: a. Purchase, possession, use or sale of privately owned firearms, ammunition, explosives, or the introduction of these items into the USCENTCOM AOR. You basically need authorization from the CENTCOM Commander to bring your personal weapons into theater (which isn't likely). Contractors, of course, have already made arrangements as part of their contract to bring personal (or company-owned) weapons. Also, just FYI from GO-1: APPLICABILITY: This General Order is applicable to all United States military personnel, and to civilians serving with, employed by, or accompanying the Armed Forces of the United States, while present in the USCENTCOM AOR except for personnel assigned to: Defense Attaché Offices; United States Marine Corps Security Detachments; sensitive intelligence and counterintelligence activities that are conducted under the direction and control of the Chief of Mission/Chief of Station; or other United States Government agencies and departments. You can add accessories to your issued weapon (may want to check with your chain of command) - I used an LMT stock on my M4, added a Daniel Defense single-point sling loop, and installed an A.R.M.S. BUIS until I could get one from the Army. No reason to try to bring your own weapon when you can put the same accessories on your issue (and automatic) weapon. Dave |
some of us are still stuck with box-stock A2s and try to find ways to update them with personal rifle accessories from the civi rifles we own. i ended up buying rail adapters for my A2 handguard so i could stick an EOTech on it. it's not like everyone has an M4. |
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Did a tour in Afghanistan as an Infantry guy, and I'm back as a contractor. Some info for you: The guys are right...no uppers, no personal firearms. You can mod a few things like grips, or swap an EoTech for an aimpoint...other than that...nope. I got away with putting on a Sage stock on my M14, and a Leupold long distance scope because I had sniper school, and advanced marksmanship courses. Most units won't let you do anything. Very few SF units let their guys alter anything or even bring their own weapons, in fact most of the teams are back to the basic issue weapons with SOPMOD kits only. As a contractor I can have my own weapons, but I can't bring them back...they have to stay here. Some advice (aren't we all good at this)...don't focus on your equipment so much as focusing on your reaction to contact drills, training on all the weapons systems you have, and most importantly CQB training. If you don't get enuf train up before you deploy, do it yourself. React to IED, react to contact, handling a death in your squad, vehicle maintenance, basic first aid to include giving an IV, and call for fire are biggies. FITNESS!!!!!!! You'll find as you get into it that it's how the group functions, and how you keep up with your maintenance that will be most important. Everyone should know how to D&A a .50, 240, 249, M9, and MK19. If everyone has mastered these tasks, then move onto stoppages, and good maintenance. Honestly that's what will get you thru. I made the mistake of focusing on my equipment on my first combat tour. After a while I realized that some kit is nice (bino's, GPS, and extra boots), but how to handle the tough stuff is where it really all came together. My $.02. Pat |
| Booniehat--that's exactly what I've done to my A4, charging handle and grip make a big difference. We're issued Aimpoints, although I'd prefer the ACOGs because of the magnification. I would like to put a SULLY STOCK on it because when wearing body armor the stock is too long, but haven't yet because I afraid that will cause too much attention in garrisson. |
In the red zone, feel free to whatever you can lay your hands on. In fact, if you don't have something, most PSD willprovide you with a loaner if you have some training. Within the confines of the bases however, you better have a weapons card or you will find yourself on a quick trip home. |
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I made sure that each of my vehicles had an AK, and 1000 rds of ammo...about 10 mags, etc. Kept it hidden away. I used my AK74 when we did CQB, the M14 was just too long going in thru the doors. Kept seperate blackhawk vest with AK mags. Another good use for the AK's in the vehicles..... a "throw down"..if ya know what I mean. Don't carry the AK around the camp, you'll get in trouble straight away. P |
| A lot of it depends on your unit and commander. I have seen some guys with all kinds of crazy shit and then they parade it and that they're something special. I was given the extra duties as the unit armorer and our commander actually looked at what I said and showed him, and he pretty much said ok, so long as it doesn't effect the actual function,...then I helped him with his carbine- thats why we pretty much stopped at grips, charging handles, a few mepro sights and NM sights, sling adapters, stuff like that I refuse to do more than that - not out of lack of know how - just don't want to be blamed for pulling a barrel and the shitbag doesn't clean it for a year and it blows up in his face or something. |
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I was able to bring back my BM M4 upper and 2 additional uppers. I put them in an a SAW spare barrel bag and walked right through customs. If anyone asks, you are carring them for the armorer. Better to ask forgiveness than permission. Don't make radical changes. Don't turn your A2 into an M4. Too obvious, but try adding a HG rail and a pistol grip and definitley some sort of optics. And for FYI, not everyone deploying gets all the high speed toys. I was in an artillery unit doing multiple types of missions and we deployed with the stuff in our arms room. M16A2s. I did convince the CoC to buy 3 point slings but that was it. I got away with making my A2 an M4 and adding coyote brown furniture, Mamba sling, non-issue Aimpoint, KAC HGs, Badger tactical latch and complete BM M4 upper. I probably got away with it because I am a MSG and I went to the Advanced Urban Combat Course before deploying. I also made changes in steps. First I did the basic M4 conversion, then added a vertical pistol grip, then after everyone got used to seeing me with an M4, I added the coyote furniture. When we packed up the conex to come home, I put all my spare parts in a foot locker and labeled it Arms Room. Customs didn't hardly look at it. |
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i have an M4 upper and colapseble buttstock. i was thinking about carrying the M4 upper and putting my A2 together and doing that. but the SAW bag sounds like a good idea. I'm only an E-6 though. our CO let us mod our weapons to M4's there are a few of us who have done it.. i'm not to worried about the add on stuff (surefire , forward grip and so on) to get home that should be a non issue. but i would like to know when you go through customs do you have your weapon with you or do you have someone guarding them when customs is giving you the full body cavity search? as for right now we have no footlockers going back with arms room stuff. we may be using weapons racks not sure yet. if we are i was thinking about red tagging the A2 upper and leaving the M4 complete. i would like to know from people who have recently redeployed this year. i leave in about 2 months. |
| A friend of mine out there was able to get his hands on a pistol that "didn't exist", which was good because they didn't even issue any pistols except to officers, I believe, but from what I understand, having one is difficult enough and coming or going with one is expressly forbidden. |
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something i forgot in my orginal post regarding this issue. is i do have a letter from our CO authorizing us to buy the uppers and get them shipped here. a question for Tangmaster were you in Iraq or Afghanistan? and did you put your old A2 back together before going home? I have an SAW spare barrel bag and have thought of what you would told customs. i have also heard from our armorer that what we have done is legal and we should have no problems. just trying to find out as musch as possible. |
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When you go through customs leaving Iraq, you carry your assigned weapon with you through the inspection station. I just layed the spare barrel bag with the extra M4 uppers on the table, unzipped the bag, then I ignored them as I was unpacking the rest of my stuff. Insepctor didn't bat and eye. If you have all the bells and whisltes attached to your M4 upper, take the parts off and pack them in separate bags/conexes. If customs guys are having a "I'm the king" day, you won't lose sall your stuff at one time. No where does it say specifically that swapping upper receivers is a "modification". That is an assumption and remove and replacing the upper is also an operator level task. Swapping butt stocks is armorer level to change and this is where the line starts to get real gray on what is a modification. Always better to ask forgiveness than permission. |
The stock extension that the stock is on is DS level to remove/replace from the reciever. Mike |
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i have heard that we have extra weapons going back and i'll probably stick the upper in with those. i have to put the rifle to it's orignal A2 configuration but that is no big deal. pretty easy. hell we might even be putting them in racks to go on the plane. also i might draw up a hand recipt and have it with me and tell them my unit mailed it to me. but that is just an idea. also the armorer is up to speed on what quite a few of us have done. i plan on taking everything off my weapon and packing it in my bags. surefire light no biggie and forward pistol grip a non issue to customs. they are looking for the obvious stuff ie rounds, grenades, AK's, pistols that are not issue. so i have a pretty positive outlook that i will get it home. and thanks for the info. |
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If you don't want to risk the Navy customs inspectors at Ali A Salem having a bad day, I'd put it in the connex's. Only down side to that is you still have to go through the customs inspectors before the connex's are sealed. They will go through every box, bag and footlocker. But, if you can wait a couple of months after you get home for your connex's to clear quarantine and customs before arriving at home station it is the way to go. Even so, to avoid the hassle of having to explain "Why do you have this upper, stock, etc in your footlocker". Have the armorer put it in the Arms Room connex. But, just make sure you and he/she will have access to it when you get stateside. Remember that in all likelihood, someone else will unpack the connex and put it all in the unit arms room in addition to inventorying it before you get there, especially if you are in the Reserves or Guard. Make sure you tag it as "yours" to avoid some pogue type from inquiring why are you taking those weapons parts out of our arms room, and the possibility for confrontation that will likely ensue. To avoid this, I'd either have a receipt packed with it or on your person when you pick it up. Especially if the items have same markings/model of the GI equivalent. Be a real bummer to loose a $400 Aimpoint because you can't prove it's yours. If you don't have receipts at least make the full timers in your unit aware of the situation as they will be able to confirm your story when you return. Plus, they are in all probability the ones who will unpack or assist in it, when the connex returns to home station. To avoid the whole "Arms Room" issue, you could have your maintenance guys include it in with the PLL in a seperate connex. That's what I did, though I was in charge of the maintenance section of my unit and maintained all the repair parts as I repaired or weapons. Customs Inspector, "Whats in this footlocker Chief?" Me, "Thats our weapons PLL". Customs Inspector, "Oh, I don't care about that stuff, go ahead and repack it". Me, "Roger that, thanks". Upon our connex's clearing and making it back to home station, the full time maintenance guys just unpacked it with the other maintenance gear and locked it up till I was able to get there. My M4 upper, Aimpoint and other goodies are now at home back on my original lower. It can be done without to much hassle, you just have to be patient. Before we deployed I knew there was the possibility that my stuff might be making a one way trip. So, you must weigh the cost of losing it against the utility you will gain from having it during your deployment. In my case it would have been worth it if I'd have lost it. M9's are useless(unless your a fobbit) and a full length A2 was a serious hassle to deploy from the turret of a gun truck. Not to mention lugging around all day, so it was an easy choice in my case. Wpns Man |
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unfortunately i don't have the luxury of using a connex. our whole unit is from everywhere and our command has allready sent the connex back.and none of us will see it again. i still have a full month of operations to conduct. since i'm the gunner on our truck i need the thing. like i said we have extra weapons and stuff going back and the armorer is aware of it. also we were thinking of just writing up a hand recipt from our home units ans doing it that way. i just know the armorer can tell them this is excess parts we brought from home. and who is customs gonna argue with the armorer and what he has to bring back. we also have a commanders letter giving us authorization to pruchase these. too bad they did not send us a recipt. that sucked. the others and i are more than likely gonna have the armorer tell them it's extra parts and that will be it. we have weapons going back to the mob station and we'll have a bunch of shit to deal with. i will know more as the month progresses. my time here is almost up. |
Most modifications such as collapsible butts and free flaoting handguards require 3rd shop/DS to perform the maintenance. I see it around every now and then (esp with NG and Reserve units) but it isnt authorized unless performed by those shops. Its best to leave everything at home unless you have an optic you like or a sling and mag pouch. |
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Does anyone have a link or copy of the frago for the "no modifiying weapons" deal? Ive had an ergo grip on my a4 for months now and just got a tan tg battlegrip. My 1sg just flipped the fuck out saying its in the frago saying I cant modify it even though my armorer said it was no problem- I just cant do anything that changes how the rifle operates. The problem is my stock grip is in our connex which is sealed right now! Does anyone know the official stance on what a modification means? Its crazy how one unit can change the entire upper and stock but I apparently even cant put a fucking grip on. Ive also got my own acog with larue mount, kac m5 rail system, vert grip, and sling on there that is my own. I guess I fucked up with getting such an obvious tan grip eh?  BTW one other guy has a black TG grip and thats been on there for even longer than I had my ergo.
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Id be willing to bet nobody wouldve said a word if it were black. If any CSM or 1SG sees that you are gonna catch crap, thats a given. Things like the ACOG and mount, handguards, and other fancy stuff you will have no problem getting through customs, nobody in the navy knows if it is personal or requisited through the military or not. They are only looking for foreign weapons and parts, drugs, and ordinance. As far as the army goes, Im pretty sure the grip is ds level, not a modification you should have made. It may or may not be a unauthorized modification by yourself, something Ill look at in the manual when I get back to the tent. |
The tg battlegrip is an nsn item. What my armorer said is he would help me change out the grip to make sure the selector spring went in right. He approved it so I didnt think there is any problem. What he took to be a modification is changing how the rifle operates, permanent changes, et cetera. If I can return it to 100% stock he didnt have a problem with it. Its not really a big deal to me but just kind of annoying. Id just like to see what the fine print says. One of the officers got the laser grips for his m9 and ofcourse nobody is going to say anything about that. BTW I do agree with limiting what people can put on their issue weapons. I think as long as its an NSN item and meant for that peice of equipment it should be ok. And in my case it is an NSN item and my armorer basically oversaw the installation. The reason I have to buy my own shit is my unit will buy PDA's, gps units and a bunch of other toys for the higher ups but not parts for peoples weapons. |
| I saw a guy today with a tan grip and that foregrip with the bipod inside on his M4 when I was turning in weapons to get worked on. Apparently his COC doesnt care, I guess it depends on where you are. Ive got crimson trace grips on all my M9s as well, not that theyll ever use them though. Im trying to procure PEQ2s and newer PVS7Ds and 14s to replace my PVS7As, and trying to get my M16s up to speed as well. Ive had guys ask me today about the parts to convert their rifle to a M4 so it is a hot issue with everyone. If theyre willing to pay for the parts I dont have a problem with it either. |