[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Waco (Page 1 of 6)
Posted: 9/22/2006 11:30:23 AM EDT
| I admit that I dont know much about Waco. The subject came up at work today and a libtard says "Well David was killing people and burned them up when he lit the place on fire". That kind of set me off. I was under the impression that the place started on fire either from a knocked over lamp of pirotechnic devices. Or it could have been the flippin tank! |
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.gov set the fire on purpose, with their pyrotechnics You can hear them joke about the Branch Davidians not having enough fire extingushers, and "we hope you have good insurance" a few days before they torched the place. It's on tape Get the video tapes and learn the truth about waco. It will really piss you off |
| He was stock piling illegal weapons, and when the ATF found out they tried to raid the compund. Koresh and his followers fought back and offed a ATF agents involved in the RAID. The government set up a perimeter around the compound and tried to wait him out. When they got tired of waiting they burned the place down with everyone in it. |
I don't think anyone knows (rather, is telling) the whole truth of the thing, but I'd have to side with your "libtard" coworker given the few facts available. Short, edited timeline of the 'action' part of the situation. -- During negotiations with Koresh, he makes numerous references to the coming fire/inferno/whatever. -- Tanks start clearing out parked cars around the compound. -- A sign goes up inside a window saying "flames await." -- The tanks breech the walls and start spraying CS inside. -- The Branch Dividians start firing on the tanks. -- Thrown CS grenades join the spray from the tanks. -- The compound is engulfed in flames. Believe what you like, but I don't think the ATF (or the tanks) purposely or accidentally set fire to the compound. |
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What illegal weapons? The UPS driver had a box of INERT practice hand grenades break open on the delivery route. While one could fill said cast iron shells with some explosive, it is NO DIFFERENT than having pipe and pipe caps. The fire was started after the ATF injected CS dissolved in dichloromethane. The experts thought dichloromethane wasn't flammable. Well, it IS! |
NO! THEY WERE ILLEGAL WEAPONS!!! Why else would the ATF raid his compound? And what business did they have practicing with inert handgrenades if they didn't have real grenades hidden away somewhere! Enough of your questions. GET BACK IN LINE!1! |
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The warrant was for suspicion that there may have been one or two illegal MG's at the home-so the ATF's involvement was because it was possible that $400- in taxes weren't paid. $400.00. One of the members was an FFL, too. The ATF wanted to raid the place instead of just picking up Koresh on one of his morning jogs to do a big dog and pony show-that's why they had news cameramen with them. Then they opened fire on Koresh when he opened the door-the door that was magically missing after they burned the place down, and went missing AFTER the feds had it in custody. Once Koresh got shot the Davidians returned fire...of course, the Davidians also claim the gov't started shooting at them from one of the helicopters, too, pretty random method for a house full of kids. Koresh was no angel but the federal government should be held to a higher standard. Waco was and is a tragedy that could have been avoided. Personally I would have built a 15' high fence around the place and hired a retired cop in a security guard uniform to watch the place. When they came out he could have called the cops. Why the fuck did cops need to knock holes in an occupied building with CEV's and Bradleys? They knew where the lamps were and targeted those areas with the booms on the CEV's. |
yep. ATF is the "bomb" 
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- The ATF raid (aka Operation Showtime) was poorly thought out and executed. - The ATF lied to the military about drug activity in order to get military assistance. - Anyone with half a brain would know not to deal with a doomsday cult (who saw the end coming in the form a military style attack from the government) by dressing in military style gear and launching a military style raid. - The on scene FBI people knew the children were being treated well. But someone told the Attorney General they were being abused. - BUT the David Koresh started the fire and is the one most responsible for all the deaths. |
The BATF and FBI burned that building and killed those people. I am disgusted by the accusations that David started the fire. You people ought to do a little more research. As a side note, isn't it interesting that Lon Horuchi was at Waco even after convicted of the unjustified killing of Vicki Weaver?  -Ben |
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Waco burnin and Nancy Sinatra Great, more people calling tinfoil hat. If you think its a conspiracy, don't think they wouldn't do it to you or your family in a SECOND. |
He burned it. Convicted? |
Lower court here in Idaho, I do believe the feds remanded it on appeal to be reconsidered. -Ben |
Was it dichloromethane? I thought it was Methelyne Chloride. I'm not sure what the difference was. One thing that really pisses me off was the use of the CS gas. The idea (according to agents congressional testimony) was to cause pain in the children which would trigger parental instinct to get the children out of the "compound" and to safety. So their plan was to torture children to make their parents comply with orders. Of course, when the CS settles it reaches a much higher concentration near the floor - where the children were. Some of them died from the CS exposure, others died from cyanide poisoning - CS turns into cyanide when you apply heat. Truly disgusting. -K |
Is Schumer as big of a retard as he comes across to be in the video? |
In 1997, Horiuchi was charged in Boundary County, Idaho state court with involuntary manslaughter. Horiuchi removed the case to federal court, where the case was dismissed by U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge on May 14, 1998. |
Bigger in fact. |
All the douchebag parents had to do was remove their children from an armed conflict. Or maybe you're one of the tinfoil guys that think if the children had been released that the govt would have machine gunned them down in front of the tv cameras... |
Yes he likes towing the government line when it fits. The ATF never proved he had any illegal weapons and they would not let third parties examine them to confirm if they were, like those 2 AKs they showed at the hearing that looked brand new for alledgedly coming out of the Waco compound after it burned. Wether or not the .gov set the fire they were in the wrong and all evidence points to the ATF shooting first, the davidians were defending themselve from excessive use of force which is legal, even against LE. |
Unintended Consequences is fiction. I wouldn't rely on it for an account on the events at Waco.  |
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I thought David Koresh and his people thought they were going to fight through armageddon, so why would he have burned his own church down and killed everyone and themselves? The more I learn about this even which I never really paid attention to, the more sickening it becomes. Its my understanding there are still Branch Dividians out there today right? |
Hello short bus...
From Wiki:Link to dichloromethane |
It's real simple. Better to die by his own hand than rot in a prison cell. Yes, there are BD's still out there today. |
So what you're saying is, the Feds had reason to believe that Koresh would burn the place down, so they chose to fumigate the place, still full of children, with gas that turns to cyanide when heated? Go FBI
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It was a cluster F... from the beginning. The ATF after a terrible amount of negative publicity from women discrimination and sexual harrasment was looking for a major media event to boost their image. Meanwhile in Waco there is this self proclaimed Jesus who is deviating way from social norms with his for all purposes cult. This of course is not ATF jurisdiction but it sure helps to have a villain for a media event. Koresch the self proclaimed Jesus and his followers also have a weapons cache thus the foot in the door for the ATF. Despite the fact Koresch had faced charges before without major opposition on his part, the cult is targeted for a massive raid and media event. I mean really, what better image is there than raiding some freak show with guns? Like most staged media events, the word gets out fast and the Davidians (cult) were notified in advance that the ATF was coming. Parnoia sets in as Koresch figure this is his crusifixtion. The resulting attempt in a no knock raid does nothing but reinforce this impression and the cult opens up on the ATF creating casualties. Now the governement, I say government here for a number of agencies are now involved, set up a Norieaga type siege complete with surrounding the structure and constant loud speaker bombardment.. The compound is surrounded by a large number of men and all kinds of military equipment costing big bucks to keep them there. Seeing no end, ever increasing negative publicity, and increasing expense Janet Reno orders the compound be taken by force. During the process the, big imphasis here, outside of the compounds propane tanks catch fire. Watching this live and what we heard later was two totally different things. The live video it appeared an Earth mover blade on a armored vehicle hit the tanks setting them off accidentally (my guess here on if it was accident). The fire killed the majority of the Davidians including a couple dozen children. Now the coverup begins and there is more smoke than the fire created as the ATF/FBI claims molten rifles as being illegal full autos, the survivors no matter their age or gender are sent to prison, and all the BS rumors were started they killed themselves. There's so much coverup smoke now especially despite the raid order that the Davidiains started killing themself before the raid and federal agents didn't fire their guns despite video evidence and phsysical evidence (autopsies) that you can choke in the BS. Eitherway, it sure wasn't America's finest moment and the ATF took one major black-eye instead of the positive publicity they sought. On a personal level, I was flabbergasted and felt betrayed that not only would my government do this to those people but actually got some of their own agents shot the hell up in the process during the initial raid. I felt Reno's decision was political and she could given a damn about those innocent childrens death as she spouted the buck stops here. Well, I personaly wish that buck had stopped with an indictment of her ass especially now knowing what role she played in anti-terrorism leading up to 9/11. Quite frankly had the heffer had half as much regard for the Davidians as she did foriegn terrorists or vice versa we probably wouldn't have this thread. Tj |
Conveniently done after a murder indictment ended up as a mistrial. "David" because the next "messiah" is prophesized to come from the house of David and "Koresh" from some persian (?) King. In other words, he called himself "Christ II." To some of us, he shall always be Vernon Howell. |
  I've read Randy Weaver's book about the Siege at his home (that was never named Ruby Ridge), could you please give me your take on that as well? |
Please no! We may find he really believes that stuff and that's scary. Tj |