Posted: 7/9/2025 1:18:16 PM EDT
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I think with the new in depth report, and the latest news of more depts dropping it, this will be what finally pushes them to make a drastic change to the gun. Its that or go under. A while back I thought they would go back to the P250 hammer. To expensive and too many parts to replace. I think now it will be a reversal from pre-tensioned striker to a non-pretensioned striker like Glock. Seems moar doable and cost effective (if possible). Just a striker pin and a new trigger bar perhaps to accomplish that? What do you think? |
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Quoted: I think with the new in depth report, and the latest news of more depts dropping it, this will be what finally pushes them to make a drastic change to the gun. Its that or go under. A while back I thought they would go back to the P250 hammer. To expensive and too many parts to replace. I think now it will be a reversal from pre-tensioned striker to a non-pretensioned striker like Glock. Seems moar doable and cost effective (if possible). Just a striker pin and a new trigger bar perhaps to accomplish that? What do you think? Your post sounds like that would fix it. Or maybe adding a manual safety that locks the sear, or a trigger dingus that locks the sear. |
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Quoted: Nothing will change. More denial. More gaslighting. More SigBoy mental gymnastics. At first I didn't think there was an issue. In the beginning it was mostly police, and I figured it was operator error. Too many, with eye witnesses that the pistol was properly in a holster when it fired. You have to think Sig is working on a fix of some kind. |
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Quoted: At first I didn't think there was an issue. In the beginning it was mostly police, and I figured it was operator error. Too many, with eye witnesses that the pistol was properly in a holster when it fired. You have to think Sig is working on a fix of some kind. Quoted: Quoted: Nothing will change. More denial. More gaslighting. More SigBoy mental gymnastics. At first I didn't think there was an issue. In the beginning it was mostly police, and I figured it was operator error. Too many, with eye witnesses that the pistol was properly in a holster when it fired. You have to think Sig is working on a fix of some kind. If they claim they have a ''fix'' for it, they open themselves up to a world of liability which is why they can't admit it. What they will do most likely is discontinue it and come up with a new model that ''magically'' has the fix in it and is juuuuust different enough that it can't be used against them in court. |
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I think the channels and dimensions for the relevant fire control aspects are not going to be conducive to pragmatically fixing this. How do you make a Nambu safer? You keep it unloaded in the back of the gun safe. If SIG does it right, they will launch a completely new and exciting different gun entirely. After the dust settles, nobody is going to miss the P320 - it was never that great. |
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Quoted: At first I didn't think there was an issue. In the beginning it was mostly police, and I figured it was operator error. Too many, with eye witnesses that the pistol was properly in a holster when it fired. You have to think Sig is working on a fix of some kind. I don't think they are. Their statements were too definitive. What are they going to do, recall a million pistols? Pull a GM and acknowledge there is a problem, but don't have a real solution. The VUP was supposed to be the fix |
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Quoted: I don't think they are. Their statements were too definitive. What are they going to do, recall a million pistols? Pull a GM and acknowledge there is a problem, but don't have a real solution. The VUP was supposed to be the fix Are they going to leave a million sources of liability out in the public? IMO, if they don't come up with a fix of some sort they won't survive this, as a company. |
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Fixing “the problem” requires identifying “the problem” and it seems everyone has found varying degrees of interesting smoke, but not the fire itself. Big agencies don’t need the liability, so they’ll continue to drop it, and civ sales will continue to fall since it has become a meme. So the fix will be eventual discontinuation with no real closure. My bet anyway. |
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Except for the die hard SIG fan boys and their paid shills, the damage to the 320's reputation is so severe that, IMHO, there is no saving it. They can fix it until every single one that comes off the line is perfect, but because they will not publicly acknowledge the problem, they cannot publicly announce they fixed the problem. Do you think the gun community will forget being lied to, insulted, threatened with legal action and ridiculed by SIG and their shills anytime soon? If ever there was a gun company that literally shot themselves in the dick, it's SIG and they did it with the P320. |
| I own a P320 and am a Sig fan boy. My P320 is not my every day carry and spends most of its time in the safe. If I shoot it it doesn't go in a holster. At first I was in the camp of operator error but there is just to many cases of them discharging that they can't all be that. I am still a Sig fan boy but the P320 has hurt Sig and their response of doubling down that there is no problem hasn't helped them. |
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Apparently Sig has been hand-inspecting each 320 or the door for…up to 2 years? The problem may be fixed already. That’s the problem with not just denial, but failing to even acknowledge the issue. We don’t know when it started. We don’t know if it stopped. We don’t know if it affects only early guns, guns up until 2 years ago, all guns. We don’t know if it affects certain parts. We don’t know what parts to replace. We don’t know if parts can even be replaced to solve the issue. It might be tolerance stacking involving the actual serialized firearm. It might be a wear issue over time/use caused by poorly inspected parts that are out of spec, either ongoing, up until a certain time, or just one batch. We know something causes it, we know how to test for some failures, and we know what parts to look at when some of those failures occur. IMO, IF Sig is forced to acknowledge it, they’ll likely initiate a voluntary upgrade program to replace the trigger bar, sear, and maybe the slide and striker assembly. Or they could discontinue it and move production to the full size 365 FUSE. I’m sure palms could be greased to seamlessly transition the military over to that design without going through trials. Without multiple, reproducible detonations forcing them to acknowledge the problem and explain the cause, I don’t think they’re going to do anything. And as I’ve said before, because they’re being so tight lipped about this, we don’t know if it’s just a scale problem involving a shitty gun. How many Shadow Systems are in the wild? Way less than 3.8mil. No one would call that a shitty gun, but I sent 2 back to the factory for rapid, unanticipated disassembly during operation in the span of a year. |
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I think the FCU is a really great idea and enjoyed shooting the handful of P320 I still currently have, but part of me wishes I would have ditched them awhile ago while they may have had some value. The Flux is still awesome though. Maybe Ill just build out a few more  
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The P320 was always a shit design. It tries to shove a striker system into a slide designed for a hammer system, without fully redesigning the slide. The only fix will be to throw the P320 out and replace it with a properly-designed striker-native system I'm not sure how SIG will survive as a company if the design turns out to be completely busted, as I am now expecting to eventually happen. It's been adopted by too many large militaries and departments. Even ignoring the costs to replace all the guns (along with parts stores, holsters, etc.), the reputation damage will be immense. |
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While Glock has managed to do a number of "refits" or "updates" to many of their pistols, I can understand why SIG may fear the legal ramifications of a general recall of the P320, M17 or M18 pistols. If SIG came out with a completely redesigned operating system and a new pistol model number they might be able to allow the P320 to gradually just fade into obscurity. Of course the problem with that would be the military contracts for the M17 and M18 pistols and contracts with any law enforcement agencies that bought into the M17/M18/P320 line of pistols. A firearms company that admitted they marketed a pistol that fires without notice would exposing themselves to a whole bunch of lawsuits or even a class action suit. There just isn't a "good" way out of this for SIG. |
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Quoted: Sig should just buy a lot of G-19s and re-brand them as the P320v2. It'll be funny if Ruger beats them to the race to make the next Glock (and an FCU will be a part of whatever Glock-like design wins that race to be the one the aftermarket turns to supporting). |
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Quoted: Glocks are overpriced garbage guns 100% true, but I'd take a Glock over a Sig every day of the week. I would be shocked if Sig survives this. I don't see how any redesign or new model would change that. No rational person is going to pay for anything made by Sig after the way this was handled. |
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Quoted: While Glock has managed to do a number of "refits" or "updates" to many of their pistols, I can understand why SIG may fear the legal ramifications of a general recall of the P320, M17 or M18 pistols. If SIG came out with a completely redesigned operating system and a new pistol model number they might be able to allow the P320 to gradually just fade into obscurity. Of course the problem with that would be the military contracts for the M17 and M18 pistols and contracts with any law enforcement agencies that bought into the M17/M18/P320 line of pistols. A firearms company that admitted they marketed a pistol that fires without notice would exposing themselves to a whole bunch of lawsuits or even a class action suit. There just isn't a "good" way out of this for SIG. That's pretty much my take on it. Seems they backed themselves into a corner with the generals they bought off to adopt that POS. |
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My guess is Sig will do what Sig always does: abandon the product and leave all its owners high and dry. Quoted: Fixing “the problem” requires identifying “the problem” and it seems everyone has found varying degrees of interesting smoke, but not the fire itself. Big agencies don’t need the liability, so they’ll continue to drop it, and civ sales will continue to fall since it has become a meme. So the fix will be eventual discontinuation with no real closure. My bet anyway. The FOIA'd FBI report has likely found the fire. I would encourage you to go read it. It's pretty definitive. |
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Not a very watched interview below of Ron Cohen, SIG CEO, from last year's SIG NEXT event where at the 6:00 mark he starts talking about going after the Defense space then segue-ways into the P365 and that the FUSE will be a regularly carried duty gun by 2030.. So he's calling it 5+ years in advance the P365 will be more widely adopted as a duty gun. Looking at it from purely a business decision, even with Sig being diversified with firearm models, optics, ammunition and more... the P320 having multiple military and other government contracts worldwide they can't abandon it anytime soon -- it would hurt their other products too. And SIG USA being a privately held company likely doing $750M+ to over $1B a year with a valuation significantly higher also has the luxury of not dealing with shareholders which means we will likely never know what the final fix will be.  Failed To Load Title |
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Quoted: My guess is Sig will do what Sig always does: abandon the product and leave all its owners high and dry. The FOIA'd FBI report has likely found the fire. I would encourage you to go read it. It's pretty definitive. Quoted: My guess is Sig will do what Sig always does: abandon the product and leave all its owners high and dry. Quoted: Fixing "the problem" requires identifying "the problem" and it seems everyone has found varying degrees of interesting smoke, but not the fire itself. Big agencies don't need the liability, so they'll continue to drop it, and civ sales will continue to fall since it has become a meme. So the fix will be eventual discontinuation with no real closure. My bet anyway. The FOIA'd FBI report has likely found the fire. I would encourage you to go read it. It's pretty definitive. when your customers include the most of the largest militaries in the world, you can't just "abandon the product and leave all its owners high and dry" Just wait until a Congresscritter gets hold of the newest info and starts hearings on the trails/adoption process. Once that happens, heads will roll regardless of who is actually at fault or if there are real issues at all. Political realities will demand a scapegoat and SIG is making it really easy to put all the blame on them. |
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Quoted: If they claim they have a ''fix'' for it, they open themselves up to a world of liability which is why they can't admit it. What they will do most likely is discontinue it and come up with a new model that ''magically'' has the fix in it and is juuuuust different enough that it can't be used against them in court. |
| SIG can go choke itself. The last real handgun that SIG made was a P239. SIG lost me over the 556 debacle - they screwed around with trying to make a good 550 series for the American market, and when they finally did make the gun everyone asked for years for, they discontinued the whole thing. I am still salty about that and have been watching their missteps with disdain since. |
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Quoted: Take the number of guns in the field, (A), and multiply it by the probable rate of failure, (B), then multiply the result by the average out-of- court settlement, (C). A times B times C equals X...If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one I am Jacks pain of a self inflicted GSW. |
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For a few years now their plan has seemingly been to quietly roll down the 320 and make the P365 derivative models the flagship line. That's why they took what was a micro pistol and started making the macro/full-size variants of it. The P320 is probably not fixable in it's current form. The best they could do is maybe beef up the quality and QC work on every part and hope for the best, which is what they'll most likely do for their remain contacts and mainly the military. |