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Link Posted: 1/24/2020 10:05:21 PM EDT
[#1]
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No it isn't.  I'm saying there's a point where there's too much inequality and it should be reduced.  That's not the same as saying we should all have the same amount of shit.

Again, gini isn't the only factor.  In society there's multiple forces at work.  Even the dude who claims to be published on the matter has provided links affirming wealth disparity is a causal factor.  For all you know those rates would be dropping much faster if middle class incomes were benefiting more from economic growth.  Last I read the middle class has been fairly stagnant since the '70's.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mDTrxtwAv7g/T95hr8W4aAI/AAAAAAAAFeg/V1pbDNYD8Xw/s1600/c-us-gdp-per-capita-1951-2010.png
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Why would I waste time pointing out the obvious? Outcome equality is literally the central thesis of your posts in this thread.

I'm still waiting on you to explain the statistics that allow the "biggest driver" of violent crime to exhibit a 20 year negative correlation with violent crime. I'd like to see the math, please.
No it isn't.  I'm saying there's a point where there's too much inequality and it should be reduced.  That's not the same as saying we should all have the same amount of shit.

Again, gini isn't the only factor.  In society there's multiple forces at work.  Even the dude who claims to be published on the matter has provided links affirming wealth disparity is a causal factor.  For all you know those rates would be dropping much faster if middle class incomes were benefiting more from economic growth.  Last I read the middle class has been fairly stagnant since the '70's.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mDTrxtwAv7g/T95hr8W4aAI/AAAAAAAAFeg/V1pbDNYD8Xw/s1600/c-us-gdp-per-capita-1951-2010.png
Inequality is the main topic of every post you've made. Sorry. You're advocating socialism.

Further, I never claimed to be published on *this* subject. I said that I have used very related statistics in my own work and I understand how this statistic is calculated and used. Second, these papers do not establish causality. They document correlation.

And now you're moving the goalposts, so I think we're finished here.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 10:09:27 PM EDT
[#2]
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What you say means precious little compared to actual research.
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Crime is demographics. I'd say it's more cultural.
What you say means precious little compared to actual research.
Research from some safe space means dick.
Let these great researchers live in the crime areas.
It isn't poor stealing from the rich or rich stealing from the poor.

It is a mentality of lawlessness and street justice.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 10:11:05 PM EDT
[#3]
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Inequality is the main topic of every post you've made. Sorry. You're advocating socialism.
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No shit.  I should change the subject when people respond to what I've posted?  

I bet you can't demonstrate that.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 10:13:22 PM EDT
[#4]
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Research from some safe space means dick.
Let these great researchers live in the crime areas.
It isn't poor stealing from the rich or rich stealing from the poor.

It is a mentality of lawlessness and street justice.
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Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 10:14:58 PM EDT
[#5]
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I'll certainly agree the federal government is bloated.  Thought most wealth remains in private hands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_position_of_the_United_States
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Yeah in multiple hands that have many different interests.  Not one single hand like the government.  2/3s of the fed budget is wealth redistribution as it is, not counting state, county, and local.

Taxing rich people will not end wealth inequality.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 10:24:00 PM EDT
[#6]
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If your interests (as a working class person) is to promote massive wealth disparity, then you're doing great.  If you're "not so dumb" then you also realize that government allows for wealth accumulation.  And that there is no "free market".  So you'll happily allow what's basically an upward redistribution of wealth through legislation, but then balk at downward redistribution.
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'wealth disparity' is the term that western liberals came up with when it was pointed out to them that the western (euro/american) 'poor' had a far higher standard of living than most humans in history, and most humans in the world today.

since it's hard to talk about poverty when the 'impoverished' have housing, vehicles, computers, cell phones, luxury food items, and too many calories, leftists had to change to another talking point.  what they chose was:

"sure you live better than almost everybody, but someone else lives better than you, so that makes you oppressed."
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 10:26:02 PM EDT
[#7]
I think that he(a Liberal) misses the point.  There's a Moral Difference.  Liberals want to soak others for as much as they can and Conservatives want to keep their own labors and be left alone.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 10:32:51 PM EDT
[#8]
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@HappyLife_NoWife @Neotopiaman

The boomer generation chose prosperity, or the illusion of prosperity, over freedom and a strong nation.
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I my thoughts exactly, I haven’t heard anyone express this besides myself. Of course we aren’t talking about all peoples in this gen, but it’s the boomer gen for sure that has put us in this place. Soon it’ll be the next gens, and now is time, to see if this ship gets corrected. Haven’t thought of this before, but maybe that’s why we are in this great divide. The next gen is moving in and the boomers are kicking and screaming on the way out.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 10:48:49 PM EDT
[#9]
I’m as rust belt as rust belt can get and I live in NY.  My stepfather worked for Chrysler as did I for a bit.  I was born in the rust the rich kids only dream about.

I hate them.  I hate liberals. And I hate anyone who votes democrat.  They can take “VoTinG AgaiNSt TheIr SeLf InTerEST” and shove it up their ass

ETA: if you bought a Chrysler brand truck from 98-99 I helped make your transfer case
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 11:01:29 PM EDT
[#10]
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First off, I haven't had a stats class in a long fuckin' time.  Second, I'm at work so I only skimmed the lengthy paper.  Third, both of these support wealth disparity being a key driver of violent crime.  I never said gini was the only factor.  Just that it offers the best correlation of any one stat.  Can you quote the part in that second link that shows these higher correlations?

Hell, even conceding being wrong about it's ranking, your links agree that it's something we should be concerned about.  Presuming we give a shit about violent crime rates.

From the paper's conclusion.

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Educate myself? Uh, my dude, I have used Herfindahl indexes in my published research. I'm quite familiar with the Gini Coefficient.

Have you done more than just read that blog post? Because I've looked at the actual published articles underlying what they are saying.

Here's the world bank article: https://siteresources.worldbank.org/DEC/Resources/Crime%26Inequality.pdf

Guess what, in that article, GDP growth looks more statistically relevant. You did check the actual stats, didn't you? Did you look at the control variables to make sure nothing important got omitted?

How about that Harvard study? Was inequality the biggest factor? Uh, oddly, "percentage single mothers" had a higher correlation (lack of fathers sound like a similar thing, don't it?). So did high school education. And self assessment of mistrust.  They then do a principal components analysis and find an underlying factor that most of those things load on... PCA is kind of witchcraft, so if you're not familiar with it, I would be careful. Also, did you note all the things they didn't look at?

Here, see for yourself: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953698004006

But you never thought about confounding factors, or omitted variable bias, or the limitations of the populations studied, did you? You just read something you liked, and went with it.

You're aiming for socialism. And your science is off.
First off, I haven't had a stats class in a long fuckin' time.  Second, I'm at work so I only skimmed the lengthy paper.  Third, both of these support wealth disparity being a key driver of violent crime.  I never said gini was the only factor.  Just that it offers the best correlation of any one stat.  Can you quote the part in that second link that shows these higher correlations?

Hell, even conceding being wrong about it's ranking, your links agree that it's something we should be concerned about.  Presuming we give a shit about violent crime rates.

From the paper's conclusion.

The main conclusion of this paper is that income inequality, measured by
the Gini index, has a significant and positive effect on the incidence of crime.
This result is robust to changes in the crime rate when it is used as the
dependent variable (whether homicide or robbery), the sample of countries
and periods, alternative measures of income inequality, the set of additional
variables explaining crime rates (control variables), and the method of econometric estimation. In particular, this result persists when using instrumental
variable methods that take advantage of the dynamic properties of our crosscountry and time-series data to control for both measurement error in crime
data and the joint endogeneity of the explanatory variables.
The main objective of this paper has been to characterize the relationship
between inequality and crime from an empirical perspective. We have attempted to provide a set of stylized facts on this relationship. Crime rates
and inequality are positively correlated (within each country and, particularly,
between countries), and it appears that this correlation reflects causation from
inequality to crime rates, even controlling for other crime determinants.
Yea. So let's make everyone equally poor then no one will be jealous and want to rob/hurt anyone else.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 11:05:06 PM EDT
[#11]
I’m not an economist, nor should I be the one to try and explain this, but here goes my thought on this wealth disparity. If I compare my economic status, mid to low middle class, versus the richest man in the US. And compare this to say Africa, a man in my similar position and the richest man in Africa. I’m sure a ratio can be done to show that the bigger difference would be here in the US. So I’m thinking, I live better than the Middle class African, so maybe it takes this kind of disparity, this kind of gap, to allow, afford, grant me these benefits. I’m better off than this other guy, but I live in a country that has a bigger wealth disparity. How can this be?

So again, it may take this amount of wealth above me in order to support all this middle class, of which I’m grateful to be in. Worked my ass off to get here. And yes I started with nothing but a rusted out S-10 pickup truck.  And I’ll be damn if I’ll walk quietly into the night as some fools decide I need to give it up, all in the name of fairness, f@%#$, fairness, there is no such thing, not in the spiritual world, not in this world, and not in the one to come. It does not exist, only fools seek it.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 11:07:22 PM EDT
[#12]
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Because someone has to pay for the all free stuff and somehow it always ends up being the middle class.
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Yes - pay, and not just monetary terms.

The middle class is expected to pay with their freedoms, as well, for the benefit of the elite and their “pets” - their favored segments of society.

Oh and massive immigration from the third world literally drowns any possible “benefit” of socialism :taxing the rich, etc.
People *are* voting for their economic interests, when voting against that shit.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 11:33:53 PM EDT
[#13]
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It amazes me that people worry so much about .1% of the population.  How does their prosperity affect you in any way, shape or form?  Is your quality of life somehow diminished because they have a bigger house than you or they can afford a nicer car than you?  Their wealth does not affect your quality of life in the slightest.

If people spent half as much time focused on improving their own situation as they do gawking over how rich people lived, they would be able to improve their quality of life far more than any number of socialist programs.  Unless you are a freeloader of course, in which case the more government cheese you can weasel out of productive citizens the better.
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Well in truth those ultra financially wealthy folks do play a role... they like money so they start and run business to make more and thus employ other people. They like and buy things, sometimes even paying ludicrous amounts of money for art...which pays people. Yes the rich have money so the fuck what. That multi million dollar yacht they have.... well there are people whose families have a roof over their head, food, transportation and get to take vacations cause that guy with money bought that yacht.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 11:37:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Economic interests as defined by commies.   Fuck 'em.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 11:47:14 PM EDT
[#15]
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Voting yourself into slavery is in NOBODY’s economic self interest.
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Very well said, sadly many don't understand that is what they are doing with their "noble" ideas.
Link Posted: 1/24/2020 11:53:00 PM EDT
[#16]
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Yeah they keep voting republican which is the party of immigration for cheap labor. Also newsflash wage growth is not keeping up with inflation. One more economic down turn like 2008 and America is gonna be lit
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Well, I guess they could vote democrat so it could be cheaper through illegals.
Link Posted: 1/25/2020 12:42:51 AM EDT
[#17]
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Well in truth those ultra financially wealthy folks do play a role... they like money so they start and run business to make more and thus employ other people. They like and buy things, sometimes even paying ludicrous amounts of money for art...which pays people. Yes the rich have money so the fuck what. That multi million dollar yacht they have.... well there are people whose families have a roof over their head, food, transportation and get to take vacations cause that guy with money bought that yacht.
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It amazes me that people worry so much about .1% of the population.  How does their prosperity affect you in any way, shape or form?  Is your quality of life somehow diminished because they have a bigger house than you or they can afford a nicer car than you?  Their wealth does not affect your quality of life in the slightest.

If people spent half as much time focused on improving their own situation as they do gawking over how rich people lived, they would be able to improve their quality of life far more than any number of socialist programs.  Unless you are a freeloader of course, in which case the more government cheese you can weasel out of productive citizens the better.
Well in truth those ultra financially wealthy folks do play a role... they like money so they start and run business to make more and thus employ other people. They like and buy things, sometimes even paying ludicrous amounts of money for art...which pays people. Yes the rich have money so the fuck what. That multi million dollar yacht they have.... well there are people whose families have a roof over their head, food, transportation and get to take vacations cause that guy with money bought that yacht.
how many of the ultra wealthy are ultra wealthy because of cronyism and barriers to entry? besides all the politicians

big business is fucking over the working class* too...but unlike the progressives, at least business is a bit less inclined to piss on them and calling it rain

*and white collars they can replace with H1Bs
Link Posted: 1/25/2020 12:57:47 AM EDT
[#18]
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If your interests (as a working class person) is to promote massive wealth disparity, then you're doing great.  If you're "not so dumb" then you also realize that government allows for wealth accumulation.  And that there is no "free market".  So you'll happily allow what's basically an upward redistribution of wealth through legislation, but then balk at downward redistribution.

https://anticap.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/wealth-inequality.jpg

http://realkm.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States.jpg

By the way, do you know what stat best predicts violence in society?  It isn't poverty.  It's the gini coefficient (which measures wealth disparity).

https://globalinequalityandhealth.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/screen-shot-2015-04-11-at-11-48-13-pm.png
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Because we're not so dumb to believe the shell game lie that we're voting "against" our own interests.
If your interests (as a working class person) is to promote massive wealth disparity, then you're doing great.  If you're "not so dumb" then you also realize that government allows for wealth accumulation.  And that there is no "free market".  So you'll happily allow what's basically an upward redistribution of wealth through legislation, but then balk at downward redistribution.

https://anticap.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/wealth-inequality.jpg

http://realkm.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States.jpg

By the way, do you know what stat best predicts violence in society?  It isn't poverty.  It's the gini coefficient (which measures wealth disparity).

https://globalinequalityandhealth.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/screen-shot-2015-04-11-at-11-48-13-pm.png
Look, another dumb commie who can't understand basic economics
Link Posted: 1/25/2020 2:22:48 AM EDT
[#19]
The longer you watch politicians the more you come to believe they use our taxes for toilet paper.

After a while everything they propose starts to look like a collosal waste.

Their decades of lies and duplicity tends to cause an immediate violent reaction whenever they propose anything at all.
Link Posted: 1/25/2020 2:26:56 AM EDT
[#20]
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Government holds enough wealth to make Midas blush. If you weighed their assets it would be staggering. Where’s their downward distribution?
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This simply isn't so. The government's resources are the taxes they collect from us.

On their own they don't own a dime, don't produce a single product or make a profit on anything they do.

Their ability to bleed the population is their sole revenue source. When anyone asks the government for a service or benefit they do so at the expense of both their neighbors and themselves.
Link Posted: 1/25/2020 2:31:58 AM EDT
[#21]
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Look, another dumb commie who can't understand basic economics
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Because we're not so dumb to believe the shell game lie that we're voting "against" our own interests.
If your interests (as a working class person) is to promote massive wealth disparity, then you're doing great.  If you're "not so dumb" then you also realize that government allows for wealth accumulation.  And that there is no "free market".  So you'll happily allow what's basically an upward redistribution of wealth through legislation, but then balk at downward redistribution.

https://anticap.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/wealth-inequality.jpg

http://realkm.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States.jpg

By the way, do you know what stat best predicts violence in society?  It isn't poverty.  It's the gini coefficient (which measures wealth disparity).

https://globalinequalityandhealth.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/screen-shot-2015-04-11-at-11-48-13-pm.png
Look, another dumb commie who can't understand basic economics
causation AND correlation!
Link Posted: 1/25/2020 2:58:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Politics is complex and blanket statements are almost always wrong.

I do not believe that the Democrats or the Republicans are trying to destroy the middle class. Both parties are made up of a large segment of our population and there is a lot of opposing views by members within both parties.

Politics is a compromise. Because the two major parties are the only ones that really have a chance of getting elected, we are stuck choosing the lesser of two evils.

As a Libertarian leaning Republican I don't give a damn about overturning Roe v. Wade. As a Libertarian a completely reject that party's open borders immigration policy. I think all drugs should be legal for adults. Not because I think they are harmless, they aren't. I want the underworld driven out of business. I want taxes collected from drug manufacturers, their employees, pharmacies and the end consumer.

There are very few things the government is responsible for. They should concentrate on the necessary and nothing else.

1. Armed Forces capable of defeating any Invaders. Completely stationed inside our borders.

2. Law Enforcement to include Border Security. Federal Law enforcement should be limited to terrorist threats, counterfeiting, bank fraud, money laundering and smuggling.

3. Infrastructure maintenance to include communications, highways, bridges, airports, seaports and national parks

Social Security should be a stand alone program that they can't touch.

All other government responsibilities should fall to the states, the counties and local government. If your local government wants to introduce some nonsense you won't have that far to travel to make your voice heard

We should have half as many Representatives or less. With the limited responsibility why do we need so many?

Each State's Governor should also serve as that state's Senator. 50 Senators total.

Both parties have instituted policies that attack our wallets and common sense. This is the natural progression of things. Congress never abolished bad laws, they simply pile them higher and deeper.

You can't have a popularity contest every couple of years without a snake oil salesmen making promises to cheering crowds.  The end result of almost 250 years of this process should be perfectly clear to everyone by now.
Link Posted: 1/25/2020 3:13:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Because being told fuck you, your religion, your guns, your gas guzzling truck, your heterosexual marriage you fucking racist white man oppressor.

But please vote for us in November because we have your best interests at heart. Is NOT how you get me to vote for you.
Link Posted: 1/25/2020 3:32:09 AM EDT
[#24]
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Because being told fuck you, your religion, your guns, your gas guzzling truck, your heterosexual marriage you fucking racist white man oppressor.

But please vote for us in November because we have your best interests at heart. Is NOT how you get me to vote for you.
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it's almost like they're not as smart as they think they are

don't forget: YoU sHoUlD LeArN tO CoDe...so your new job can be outsourced or given to a H1B
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