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Link Posted: 6/19/2021 8:24:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 8:31:08 PM EDT
[#2]


This pillbox at the center of the Vierville Draw housed a .50-caliber machine gun that fired eastward across the mouth of the draw and down the length of Dog Green Beach. A side wall screened the gun’s muzzle blast from observation from the English Channel. Note a chunk of concrete missing above the gun embrasure where a shell made a direct hit.



The same pillbox today; the shell mark above the embrasure is still visible, but the side wall has been demolished. The cliffs of Charlie Beach can be seen in the distance.
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 8:34:42 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Not to ask a stupid question, but why didn’t the planners use destroyers to take out the pillboxes with close range direct 5” fire BEFORE the Higgins boats rolled in and dropped ramp?  Use those same destroyers to constantly fire suppressive 40mm and 20mm over the heads of the landing troops.
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In Europe, long bombardments were thought to be counterproductive as the thought was it would give more time for the Germans to send armored counterattacks.  In the Pacific, where the counterattacks came from the Japanese Navy, they took longer.  At Omaha there was only half an hour from sunrise to low tide and H-Hour.  There simply wasn't enough time.

Additionally, at Tarawa, in 1943, it was learned that just throwing a whole lot of ammo at a small space wouldn't knock out bunkers. You needed to get in close, aim at the target, fire, then let the dust blow away and fire again after adjusting aim.  You could shoot accurately, and get direct hits on bunkers, or rapidly, not both.  Again, not enough time at Omaha.  To mitigate that, 200 B24s and 300+ tons of bombs were sent in. The fact that it was a 100% miss kinda sucked.  By way of comparison, a 5 inch shell on a destroyer weighs 50 pounds. So a lot was riding on the Air Force, which failed horribly at Omaha.

The actual shootout of the destroyers lasted a lot longer then the half hour of the original opening barrage.  And shooting from 1000 meters and such was the sort of desperation they wouldn't have considered in the opening barrage.

Also, for reasons having to do with science, the low tide at the British beaches to the east were a little bit later, and they had a  few more minutes of naval gunfire prep.
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 10:04:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Were the Germans who were captured in Normandy immediately summarily executed by the French?
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 10:30:33 PM EDT
[#5]
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Were the Germans who were captured in Normandy immediately summarily executed by the French?
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I believe most that were captured by the allies were either shipped back to England or out to work helping the Allies.

My grandpa had a few German POWS working for him in the fall of 1945.  They loved working for him as they were treated and fed better than in their army units.

My guess if the French got there hands on some hardened nazis the perhaps justice was sought.  Conscript soldiers that were kids, farmers,  and likely even prisoners from the eastern front emeere probably handled as POWS.
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 10:42:19 PM EDT
[#6]
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I believe most that were captured by the allies were either shipped back to England or out to work helping the Allies.

My grandpa had a few German POWS working for him in the fall of 1945.  They loved working for him as they were treated and fed better than in their army units.

My guess if the French got there hands on some hardened nazis the perhaps justice was sought.  Conscript soldiers that were kids, farmers,  and likely even prisoners from the eastern front emeere probably handled as POWS.
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What would keep a conscript from turning an MG-42 on his own barracks?
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 10:45:23 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:


What would keep a conscript from turning an MG-42 on his own barracks?
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Quoted:
Quoted:



I believe most that were captured by the allies were either shipped back to England or out to work helping the Allies.

My grandpa had a few German POWS working for him in the fall of 1945.  They loved working for him as they were treated and fed better than in their army units.

My guess if the French got there hands on some hardened nazis the perhaps justice was sought.  Conscript soldiers that were kids, farmers,  and likely even prisoners from the eastern front emeere probably handled as POWS.


What would keep a conscript from turning an MG-42 on his own barracks?


Conscript gets a bolt gun, he is mostly a bullet sponge

MG-42 goes to the veterans
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 7:25:24 AM EDT
[#8]
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Conscript gets a bolt gun, he is mostly a bullet sponge

MG-42 goes to the veterans
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Good info.  But it doesn’t mean he didn’t have access to it.  He could also could have potato mashed the latrine while someone was in it.
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 10:10:58 AM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:


This.  The bunker in Saving Private Ryan was more like an Artillery OP.

They were called "shnabelstand"" and they were not designed for MG positions.  In real life sooner or later someone would start pumping rifle fire into the aperture and that would be that.  Which didn't happen in the movie because Spielberg told the actors not to.

https://www.bunkerpictures.nl/pictures/france/seine-maritime/etretat/Schnabelstand-2.JPG

Many bunkers looked like this.

https://www.battleofnormandytours.com/uploads/2/5/1/7/2517577/6397907_orig.jpg

Notice there is a wall on the sea ward side, not the landward side, to protect it from fire and observation from ships, and its sector of fire was down the long axis of the beach.

You can see that the wall is parallel to the line where the water meets the land, and the ships and aperture cant see each other, due to the wall.

Sectors of fire looked like this:

https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/48369007_731775890513355_3554380840995651584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=fqAZnmVN5ZAAX9hckG0&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpa1-1.fna&oh=70b7e781d33c3ede7fb69760a550b6c7&oe=60D29ECC

Without getting into the weeds, moving off the beach and engaging the enemy to the flank like that is super hard.  If you cant lay down enough suppressive fire, which you cant, you really need night, or in this case, a lot of smoke.  Or maybe if the bombers hit the dust would have obscured that MG42 position so he was blind.  As it was, he had a great sector of fire.  This one did a lot of damage to A Co, 116th infantry. If you look in the distance where there are six people standing around, that's where A/116 landed in the first wave.  That was far enough away that it would be hard to shoot into the bunker aperture, but close enough that the bunker could do a great deal of damage.  The sector of fire looked like a kilometer, at least.  

The Germans were pros and set up these sorts of flanking enfilade positions all the time.

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Great pics and great explanation.  It's now easy to see what really happened there.

Thanks,

Link Posted: 6/20/2021 12:01:55 PM EDT
[#10]
The bombers were unable to sufficiently bomb Omaha.
Few craters for the troops to use as ad-hoc foxholes and defenses were not damaged nearly as much.
Also, just plain tough terrain that gave the advantage to the defenders.
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 12:05:17 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


What would keep a conscript from turning an MG-42 on his own barracks?
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Because, mostly, people don't do that.
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 12:07:43 PM EDT
[#12]
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I’ve been getting emails from a tour group for some time, now I think they are called “Beaches of Normandy” since things restarted after all the chyna virus shutdowns. I don’t recall what they may have went by before
But they do guided tours of various European battlefields , and I think they had a sister company that did Pacific WWII battlefield tours.

So has anyone taken one of these sorts of tours of the Normandy beaches and following battles?   I’m wondering if they give you adequate time to see things?  Can you easily go off on your own, or do you need to always follow the guide like a group of elementary students on a field trip?  
It’s not a cheap venture, and vacation time from work is limited.  Possibly no one has used the group above, but what’s been your experiences with these sorts of groups?
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Quoted:
If you haven't been, go. I only gotb1 day there, but could go back to the coast for a week.



I’ve been getting emails from a tour group for some time, now I think they are called “Beaches of Normandy” since things restarted after all the chyna virus shutdowns. I don’t recall what they may have went by before
But they do guided tours of various European battlefields , and I think they had a sister company that did Pacific WWII battlefield tours.

So has anyone taken one of these sorts of tours of the Normandy beaches and following battles?   I’m wondering if they give you adequate time to see things?  Can you easily go off on your own, or do you need to always follow the guide like a group of elementary students on a field trip?  
It’s not a cheap venture, and vacation time from work is limited.  Possibly no one has used the group above, but what’s been your experiences with these sorts of groups?



My wife and I took a tour with "Battlebus" back in '04 when we got married. Did Omaha, St Mere Eglise, Utah, and a few other spots.

One of the most memorable experiences of my life. Do it.
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 12:16:15 PM EDT
[#13]
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Have you ever been to Nebraska?
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I still mark the day I got some Nebraska pussy.
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 12:17:35 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
The other beaches weren’t as well defended as Omaha.

The Americans were told that they would be facing 2nd rate troops at Omaha  including old men and boys when in reality what they came up against was the German 352 Inf. Division that were in Normandy for rest and refitting.

About half of the 352nd were battle hardened vets of the eastern front and dug in with good positions, bunkers, mines covering the beach, interlocking fields of fire with good views from the bluffs and steep terrain they simply mowed down everything coming at them until they were flanked and overwhelmed.

It could have been MUCH worse.
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This.
Start with the official history, then move on to more specific, detailed and later works. Specifically Ch.7 and 8.

https://history.army.mil/html/books/007/7-4-1/CMH_Pub_7-4-1.pdf
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