Posted: 7/4/2016 6:00:33 PM EDT
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Its been said over and over in the Trump threads. "If you're not for Trump, you're for Hillary" or "Hillary shill". i want to explain why I believe that one can choose not to vote for Trump or be critical of him and still not support Hillary or improve her chances to win. As you know, our presidential election process is not a popularity contest. It is not one where the person with the most votes wins. If that were the case, then Al Gore would have been president instead of George W. Bush in 2000. We have a system where each state is allotted a specific number of electoral college votes that are apportioned by population. With that in mind, the propensity for a state to cast its votes for one party or the other is the significant variable in the election.....not the national popular vote. In the state of West Virginia, where i reside, the Democrats have not received those electoral college votes in 20 years. Each election, the percentage of West Virginians who vote for the Republican candidate has increased. In fact, in 2012 with a candidate as bad as Romney, he beat Obama by a margin of 26 points. Romney won every county in the state. Undoubtedly, West Virginia will go Republican in 2016. There is no reason, after Hillary's statement about coal companies, to believe that the trend will not continue. With that being the case, there is no possibility that my refusing to vote for Trump will in any way create any positive impact for Hillary Clinton. Even though i barely prefer Trump over Hillary, it is because of the electoral college system that i can choose not to vote and still achieve my desired outcome. This also works in the blue states. If a certain flightless bird were to decide not to vote for Trump, it would have no impact as the state's electoral votes have already been decided in favor of the Democrat. So you see, being #NeverTrump does not mean in any way that one supports Hillary or is even aiding her election. In an electoral college system, you can truly be for neither candidate. Trump is a bad enough candidate that I will not legitimize his candidacy by giving him my vote. He is not as bad as Hillary...I hope...but i have the luxury of being able to sit it out without negatively impacting his chances. |
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Can you explain, given my original post, how I am delusional or worse? Quoted:
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Yes, it absolutely does. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional or worse. Can you explain, given my original post, how I am delusional or worse? Roughly half of this country believes in national sovereignty and individual liberties. Every single person that holds those beliefs that refuses to vote for the only candidate that has a chance to beat the candidate who has openly stated that her main goals are import "refugees" en masse, who even if "moderate" have no use for our way of life or our freedoms, and to do everything in her power to end private firearm ownership....well they are only playing their part to aid her. Even if not actively, they are passively doing so. |
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Quoted: Roughly half of this country believes in national sovereignty and individual liberties. Every single person that holds those beliefs that refuses to vote for the only candidate that has a chance to beat the candidate who has openly stated that her main goals are import "refugees" en masse, who even if "moderate" have no use for our way of life or our freedoms, and to do everything in her power to end private firearm ownership....well they are only playing their part to aid her. Even if not actively, they are passively doing so. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, it absolutely does. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional or worse. Can you explain, given my original post, how I am delusional or worse? Roughly half of this country believes in national sovereignty and individual liberties. Every single person that holds those beliefs that refuses to vote for the only candidate that has a chance to beat the candidate who has openly stated that her main goals are import "refugees" en masse, who even if "moderate" have no use for our way of life or our freedoms, and to do everything in her power to end private firearm ownership....well they are only playing their part to aid her. Even if not actively, they are passively doing so. If we elected the president based on the popular vote, I would agree. |
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Do you really think WV is going to give it's electoral votes to Hillary if the OP refuses to vote for Trump? Seriously? Quoted:
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Yes, it absolutely does. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional or worse. Do you really think WV is going to give it's electoral votes to Hillary if the OP refuses to vote for Trump? Seriously? I think we are talking about the #nevertrump mind state as a whole, not just the OP. There are people who share his beliefs, even in our state (which very much DOES matter.) |
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Do you really think WV is going to give it's electoral votes to Hillary if the OP refuses to vote for Trump? Seriously? Quoted:
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Yes, it absolutely does. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional or worse. Do you really think WV is going to give it's electoral votes to Hillary if the OP refuses to vote for Trump? Seriously? I live in New York. If by some chance Trump can carry this state, I'll vote for him. But if he is down 20 points going into Election Day, I'll support a third party in hopes of them getting an automatic ballot line for the next four years. |
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Quoted: Can you explain, given my original post, how I am delusional or worse? Quoted: Quoted: Yes, it absolutely does. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional or worse. The only way that works, is if your vote would normally be for the Democrat. If you would normally vote Republican, your non-vote or third party vote is taken away from the GOP. The margins could be closer than normal (nobody knows), so wasting an otherwise GOP vote so you can feel like a rebel is ridiculous. |
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I think we are talking about the #nevertrump mind state as a whole, not just the OP. There are people who share his beliefs, even in our state (which very much DOES matter.) Quoted:
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Yes, it absolutely does. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional or worse. Do you really think WV is going to give it's electoral votes to Hillary if the OP refuses to vote for Trump? Seriously? I think we are talking about the #nevertrump mind state as a whole, not just the OP. There are people who share his beliefs, even in our state (which very much DOES matter.) I'll be a Texas resident in November. Pretty sure it's going Red no matter how I vote. 
That reminds me. I need to start researching state and local candidates and issues. |
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It's my belief that we are fucked no matter who wins in Nov. But I will vote Trump for 3 reasons.
1: His platform on guns is better than Hillary, although I have real trust issues with it. 2: I want to see Hilary's and all other dems faces when she loses. 3: Since I believe we are fucked no matter, Trumps presidency would be more entertaining. |
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Quoted: I live in New York. If by some chance Trump can carry this state, I'll vote for him. But if he is down 20 points going into Election Day, I'll support a third party in hopes of them getting an automatic ballot line for the next four years. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, it absolutely does. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional or worse. Do you really think WV is going to give it's electoral votes to Hillary if the OP refuses to vote for Trump? Seriously? I live in New York. If by some chance Trump can carry this state, I'll vote for him. But if he is down 20 points going into Election Day, I'll support a third party in hopes of them getting an automatic ballot line for the next four years. That seems sensible. |
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Not at all The ones that voted for Trump in the primaries are the ones that dug the whole that we are all stuck in 
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uh huh...you keep telling yourself that OP. Quite a hole you dug yourself into eh? Not at all The ones that voted for Trump in the primaries are the ones that dug the whole that we are all stuck in
Lol it's always someone else's fault... fucking spoiled little child I voted for Cruze by the way. |
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Quoted: Lol it's always someone else's fault... fucking spoiled little child I voted for Cruze by the way. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: uh huh...you keep telling yourself that OP. Quite a hole you dug yourself into eh? Not at all The ones that voted for Trump in the primaries are the ones that dug the whole that we are all stuck in Lol it's always someone else's fault... fucking spoiled little child I voted for Cruze by the way. I hope you're not one of those that will blame people here if Trump loses Wouldnt want you to be accused of being a fucking spoiled little child |
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Quoted: Can you explain, given my original post, how I am delusional or worse? Quoted: Quoted: Yes, it absolutely does. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional or worse. Can you explain, given my original post, how I am delusional or worse? This election is a simple, binary choice. |
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OP, one of the two options will appoint the next few justices to the Supreme Court. He lives in West Virginia. The electors in West Virginia are going to cast their votes for Trump no matter what the OP does or doesn't do. He knows this. You ought to know this. He can vote third party (or leave the presidential portion of his ballot blank...or just stay home...) and it will have zero effect on the outcome of the election. Hell, he can outright vote for Hillary and it's still not going to matter. West Virginia is going red. He has ZERO ability to swing the other states in the US from blue to red. None. Nada. Millions upon millions of people in states other than West Virginia are going to vote how they're going to vote, and he isn't capable of doing a damn thing about it. This bullshit of agonizing over how might people vote is getting a little tiresome. It's making people angry with each other for no reason. |
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He lives in West Virginia. The electors in West Virginia are going to cast their votes for Trump no matter what the OP does or doesn't do. He knows this. You ought to know this. He can vote third party (or leave the presidential portion of his ballot blank...or just stay home...) and it will have zero effect on the outcome of the election. Hell, he can outright vote for Hillary and it's still not going to matter. West Virginia is going red. He has ZERO ability to swing the other states in the US from blue to red. None. Nada. Millions upon millions of people in states other than West Virginia are going to vote how they're going to vote, and he isn't capable of doing a damn thing about it. This bullshit of agonizing over how might people vote is getting a little tiresome. It's making people angry with each other for no reason. Quoted:
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OP, one of the two options will appoint the next few justices to the Supreme Court. He lives in West Virginia. The electors in West Virginia are going to cast their votes for Trump no matter what the OP does or doesn't do. He knows this. You ought to know this. He can vote third party (or leave the presidential portion of his ballot blank...or just stay home...) and it will have zero effect on the outcome of the election. Hell, he can outright vote for Hillary and it's still not going to matter. West Virginia is going red. He has ZERO ability to swing the other states in the US from blue to red. None. Nada. Millions upon millions of people in states other than West Virginia are going to vote how they're going to vote, and he isn't capable of doing a damn thing about it. This bullshit of agonizing over how might people vote is getting a little tiresome. It's making people angry with each other for no reason. Ok so the whole state of WV just decided to share his point of view. (Generally R voters) Oh look! Its a blue state now! |
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Quoted: Can you provide any any credible data showing that Gary Johnson has a path to more than 5 electoral votes? Do you think that Bill Kristol can pull a candidate out of his ass that will come from nowhere and poll better than the others in under 4 months? This election is a simple, binary choice. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, it absolutely does. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional or worse. Can you explain, given my original post, how I am delusional or worse? This election is a simple, binary choice. I have said that the choice is between Trump and Clinton. In our electoral college system, you can choose not to vote and it will have 0 impact on the end result. Swing states may differ obviously |
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It's my belief that we are fucked no matter who wins in Nov. But I will vote Trump for 3 reasons. 1: His platform on guns is better than Hillary, although I have real trust issues with it. 2: I want to see Hilary's and all other dems faces when she loses. 3: Since I believe we are fucked no matter, Trumps presidency would be more entertaining. Good post. |
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Ok so the whole state of WV just decided to share his point of view. Oh look! Its a blue state now! Quoted:
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OP, one of the two options will appoint the next few justices to the Supreme Court. He lives in West Virginia. The electors in West Virginia are going to cast their votes for Trump no matter what the OP does or doesn't do. He knows this. You ought to know this. He can vote third party (or leave the presidential portion of his ballot blank...or just stay home...) and it will have zero effect on the outcome of the election. Hell, he can outright vote for Hillary and it's still not going to matter. West Virginia is going red. He has ZERO ability to swing the other states in the US from blue to red. None. Nada. Millions upon millions of people in states other than West Virginia are going to vote how they're going to vote, and he isn't capable of doing a damn thing about it. This bullshit of agonizing over how might people vote is getting a little tiresome. It's making people angry with each other for no reason. Ok so the whole state of WV just decided to share his point of view. Oh look! Its a blue state now! And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass when he hopped. What's your point? The entire country could up and decide to vote for Johnson too. They won't, but hey - hypotheticals are fun! |
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Quoted: Ok so the whole state of WV just decided to share his point of view. Oh look! Its a blue state now! Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP, one of the two options will appoint the next few justices to the Supreme Court. He lives in West Virginia. The electors in West Virginia are going to cast their votes for Trump no matter what the OP does or doesn't do. He knows this. You ought to know this. He can vote third party (or leave the presidential portion of his ballot blank...or just stay home...) and it will have zero effect on the outcome of the election. Hell, he can outright vote for Hillary and it's still not going to matter. West Virginia is going red. He has ZERO ability to swing the other states in the US from blue to red. None. Nada. Millions upon millions of people in states other than West Virginia are going to vote how they're going to vote, and he isn't capable of doing a damn thing about it. This bullshit of agonizing over how might people vote is getting a little tiresome. It's making people angry with each other for no reason. Ok so the whole state of WV just decided to share his point of view. Oh look! Its a blue state now! If Trump can take a state that the Republicans won by 26 points just 4 years ago and turn it blue because everyone thinks like me, then I am not the problem |
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The last few vocal #NeverTrump holdouts here are becoming quite the pain in the ass with they're "Hey! Look at me! Not voting Trump! LaLaLaLa!!!" Everyone gets it. You all won't vote for Trump. Vote however you want. Or stay home and not vote. Just give it a rest already! No one cares any more.  |
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The last few vocal #NeverTrump holdouts here are becoming quite the pain in the ass with they're "Hey! Look at me! Not voting Trump! LaLaLaLa!!!" Everyone gets it. You all won't vote for Trump. Vote however you want. Or stay home and not vote. Just give it a rest already! No one cares any more. #NeverTrumpers are like vegans. |
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Damn you attention whore for your cause. I might be inclined to believe you if you weren't in like every single Trump thread trashing him. You are one of, if not the largest, Hillary shill on this board. Period. No doubt. First political thread I've posted in this year, but I've read most... To spew all the shit that the OP does, then act like he's not actively trying to recruit votes away from trump is a pathetic lie. Trump isn't perfect by any means, but he certainly is better than hillary. OP can bitch, cry, and moan all he wants, but hillary has clearly stated she's going after gun rights on day one, and let's not even get into the appointment of supreme court justices. Instead of being an insufferable whiner about trump, how about doing something productive politically, OP? Or go ahead and try to convince everyone else you can not to vote for him so we can all end up as miserable as you. |