Posted: 12/15/2015 8:28:54 AM EDT
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A couple of buddies went shooting over the weekend. Buddy #2 goes to fire and has a *click*...note the firing pin mark on the rim.
He was shooting some .22 LR ammo he'd gotten from a friend of his that passed a couple of years ago (now he's not so sure), so there's no way to find out where the hell these came from. There were several 2 in his stash. I am unable to find anything, but my Googlefu is weak at times... I told them Arfcom knows everything, so had Buddy #1 send me pictures: 
Update: 12-15-15 4:45:03 PM MST Buddy #2 looked through the loose rounds this one came from and only found one more, he thought Buddy #1 had taken home more than just the one that "misfired". So, there's only 2. That sucks, I was hoping to have one for the ammo collection. That being the case, there's no way we're going to pull a bullet to check for powder, plus that might not necessarily mean anything. Buddy #2 also thought about it and isn't so sure that he got them from his deceased friend. We told him to ponder where else they could have come from over his Steel Reserve tall boys tonight, because nobody has been able to solve this. |
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When Charles Askins was in the Border Patrol he created a .22 center fire Colt Woodsman pistol, using .22 Velo Dog brass with small pistol primers.
National Match rule book had a 'glitch' in the rules, the .38 revolver match specified a 'center fire pistol' without mentioning caliber. Askins converted a .22 Colt Woodman semi-auto from rim fire to center fire firing pin and made his own brass. The .22 pistol enabled a much faster time and hence better score. The match officials hemmed and hawed but the rules clearly didn't prohibit it. One of the other national teams pitched a bitch to the Border Patrol and Askins' bosses in Washington called him up and said it was politically unwise to beat the other shooters with the modified pistol. Askins said he was shooting his pistol, politics be damned. He went to the match, shot the center fire .22, won the match, and resigned from the Border Patrol the next day. I read that for the following year many shooting teams 'gamed' by modifying .22 pistols to center fire, then at the end of the year the National Match rules were changed/modified to specify .38 revolvers for the revolver match, and the 'glitch' was corrected. |
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Rimfire cases are made from very thin sheet brass with minimal drawing. Centerfire cases from much thicker sheet with much more three dimensional forming. So those cases were made on special machinery. I would suppose they can only be used in a TC Contender as it has switchable firing pins for center and rim fire. |
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When Charles Askins was in the Border Patrol he created a .22 center fire Colt Woodsman pistol, using .22 Velo Dog brass with small pistol primers. National Match rule book had a 'glitch' in the rules, the .38 revolver match specified a 'center fire pistol' without mentioning caliber. Askins converted a .22 Colt Woodman semi-auto from rim fire to center fire firing pin and made his own brass. The .22 pistol enabled a much faster time and hence better score. The match officials hemmed and hawed but the rules clearly didn't prohibit it. One of the other national teams pitched a bitch to the Border Patrol and Askins' bosses in Washington called him up and said it was politically unwise to beat the other shooters with the modified pistol. Askins said he was shooting his pistol, politics be damned. He went to the match, shot the center fire .22, won the match, and resigned from the Border Patrol the next day. I read that for the following year many shooting teams 'gamed' by modifying .22 pistols to center fire, then at the end of the year the National Match rules were changed/modified to specify .38 revolvers for the revolver match, and the 'glitch' was corrected. That's pretty interesting right there. |
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When Charles Askins was in the Border Patrol he created a .22 center fire Colt Woodsman pistol, using .22 Velo Dog brass with small pistol primers. National Match rule book had a 'glitch' in the rules, the .38 revolver match specified a 'center fire pistol' without mentioning caliber. Askins converted a .22 Colt Woodman semi-auto from rim fire to center fire firing pin and made his own brass. The .22 pistol enabled a much faster time and hence better score. The match officials hemmed and hawed but the rules clearly didn't prohibit it. One of the other national teams pitched a bitch to the Border Patrol and Askins' bosses in Washington called him up and said it was politically unwise to beat the other shooters with the modified pistol. Askins said he was shooting his pistol, politics be damned. He went to the match, shot the center fire .22, won the match, and resigned from the Border Patrol the next day. I read that for the following year many shooting teams 'gamed' by modifying .22 pistols to center fire, then at the end of the year the National Match rules were changed/modified to specify .38 revolvers for the revolver match, and the 'glitch' was corrected. obviously .221 Askins, question is, where the hell did they come from? Goddamn it, now I want one. He served in the border patrol in the Southwest, so conceivably, your friend could have gotten his hands on them in the AZ AO http://www.bullseyepistol.com/askins.htm |
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This is related but doesn't explain your specific case...
At one time Remington made 5mm rimfire magnum. Sort of its version of 22WMR. Rem stopped producing 5mm ammo. There were still lots of solid rifles on the market, just no ammo. A few companies started doing RF to CF conversions, as well as selling the new Cf cases for these to work will. These were, of course, a reload option. Also, over the years I've seen numerous types of chamber adapters. Slip a .32 ACP cartridge inside a 3006 adapter, load the whole thing inside your 06 and go shoot small game/plinking loads. These were once common. An adapter to fire .22 LR in a .220 Swift or your 22-250 wouldn't work unless the 22LR chamber was offset inside the centerfire adapter. But that CF 22 would work just fine....... |
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Someone's creative way to reload 22 brass? Honestly, what I'm thinking. ETA: After looking at it a little bit more, and knowing nothing about reloading whatsoever, this has got to be bullshit, and I think we're being trolled a little. There is no way that case would survive, having had that much of the base drilled out. Hell, WTF is holding the base to the rest of the cartridge? That joint has to be paper thin! |
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This is related but doesn't explain your specific case... At one time Remington made 5mm rimfire magnum. Sort of its version of 22WMR. Rem stopped producing 5mm ammo. There were still lots of solid rifles on the market, just no ammo. A few companies started doing RF to CF conversions, as well as selling the new Cf cases for these to work will. These were, of course, a reload option. I don't know that I'd say "companies" were doing the conversions on the 591. More like a few gunsmiths/tinkerers. The brass could be made from .22 Hornet if you first turned down the diameter of the rim as I recall. There were also conversions to different calibers - the 58/59X actions were basically 2/3 scale 788 designs. Ridiculously strong for a .22. And since it was a 2 piece bolt the conversion of that component was easy. And then Aquila started producing ammo again after the .17 HMR got popular, and now the rifles that gun shops couldn't give away became collectors items. :( Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Rimfire cases are made from very thin sheet brass with minimal drawing. Centerfire cases from much thicker sheet with much more three dimensional forming. So those cases were made on special machinery. I would suppose they can only be used in a TC Contender as it has switchable firing pins for center and rim fire. Or a S&W Model 53 revolver. A better shot of the rim would help figure out if this a .221 Askins. It's possible that someone machined a case as an experiment. Or a object for trolling AR15.com. I would try to trace the ammunition back through the chain of custody to find out if there is a link back to Askins. Maybe Pachmyr kept a few cartridges, maybe someone on the board at the National Matches had one. That would be the interesting story of this particular cartridge. |
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I don't know that I'd say "companies" were doing the conversions on the 591. More like a few gunsmiths/tinkerers. The brass could be made from .22 Hornet if you first turned down the diameter of the rim as I recall. There were also conversions to different calibers - the 58/59X actions were basically 2/3 scale 788 designs. Ridiculously strong for a .22. And since it was a 2 piece bolt the conversion of that component was easy. And then Aquila started producing ammo again after the .17 HMR got popular, and now the rifles that gun shops couldn't give away became collectors items. :( Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quoted:
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This is related but doesn't explain your specific case... At one time Remington made 5mm rimfire magnum. Sort of its version of 22WMR. Rem stopped producing 5mm ammo. There were still lots of solid rifles on the market, just no ammo. A few companies started doing RF to CF conversions, as well as selling the new Cf cases for these to work will. These were, of course, a reload option. I don't know that I'd say "companies" were doing the conversions on the 591. More like a few gunsmiths/tinkerers. The brass could be made from .22 Hornet if you first turned down the diameter of the rim as I recall. There were also conversions to different calibers - the 58/59X actions were basically 2/3 scale 788 designs. Ridiculously strong for a .22. And since it was a 2 piece bolt the conversion of that component was easy. And then Aquila started producing ammo again after the .17 HMR got popular, and now the rifles that gun shops couldn't give away became collectors items. :( Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I've seen a remington 5 series in 5mm once at a gun show. I love the little tube fed 582s, so this rifle caught my eye. Seems sportsman guide sold 5mm ammo awhile back. |
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Or a S&W Model 53 revolver. A better shot of the rim would help figure out if this a .221 Askins. It's possible that someone machined a case as an experiment. Or a object for trolling AR15.com. Quoted:
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Rimfire cases are made from very thin sheet brass with minimal drawing. Centerfire cases from much thicker sheet with much more three dimensional forming. So those cases were made on special machinery. I would suppose they can only be used in a TC Contender as it has switchable firing pins for center and rim fire. Or a S&W Model 53 revolver. A better shot of the rim would help figure out if this a .221 Askins. It's possible that someone machined a case as an experiment. Or a object for trolling AR15.com. I appreciate you thinking I have that kind of talent. 
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I appreciate you thinking I have that kind of talent. Quoted:
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Rimfire cases are made from very thin sheet brass with minimal drawing. Centerfire cases from much thicker sheet with much more three dimensional forming. So those cases were made on special machinery. I would suppose they can only be used in a TC Contender as it has switchable firing pins for center and rim fire. Or a S&W Model 53 revolver. A better shot of the rim would help figure out if this a .221 Askins. It's possible that someone machined a case as an experiment. Or a object for trolling AR15.com. I appreciate you thinking I have that kind of talent. See my other comment above about tracing the cartridge back through its chain of custody. |
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See my other comment above about tracing the cartridge back through its chain of custody. Quoted:
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Rimfire cases are made from very thin sheet brass with minimal drawing. Centerfire cases from much thicker sheet with much more three dimensional forming. So those cases were made on special machinery. I would suppose they can only be used in a TC Contender as it has switchable firing pins for center and rim fire. Or a S&W Model 53 revolver. A better shot of the rim would help figure out if this a .221 Askins. It's possible that someone machined a case as an experiment. Or a object for trolling AR15.com. I appreciate you thinking I have that kind of talent. See my other comment above about tracing the cartridge back through its chain of custody. Well, I don't know how to undead someone, but I do like the idea above about pulling the bullet to see if there's any powder in it. |
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Well, I don't know how to undead someone, but I do like the idea above about pulling the bullet to see if there's any powder in it. Quoted:
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Rimfire cases are made from very thin sheet brass with minimal drawing. Centerfire cases from much thicker sheet with much more three dimensional forming. So those cases were made on special machinery. I would suppose they can only be used in a TC Contender as it has switchable firing pins for center and rim fire. Or a S&W Model 53 revolver. A better shot of the rim would help figure out if this a .221 Askins. It's possible that someone machined a case as an experiment. Or a object for trolling AR15.com. I appreciate you thinking I have that kind of talent. See my other comment above about tracing the cartridge back through its chain of custody. Well, I don't know how to undead someone, but I do like the idea above about pulling the bullet to see if there's any powder in it. You might only need to go back to the dead person, find out about his shooting background and likely get 90% of the answer, or more. |
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Probably doesn't require gunpowder. The primer should be enough to move that bullet just fine.
Also to the 5mm, my brother has one. It sat for years until Centurion started manufacturing ammo. Eta: what was the process for making that brass. I wonder if they just used a die set to form the primer pocket |
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Check this article,
http://casualshooter.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-221-askins.html from a 5.5 velo dog as parent case, into .221 askins. |
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Well, I don't know how to undead someone, but I do like the idea above about pulling the bullet to see if there's any powder in it. Quoted:
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Rimfire cases are made from very thin sheet brass with minimal drawing. Centerfire cases from much thicker sheet with much more three dimensional forming. So those cases were made on special machinery. I would suppose they can only be used in a TC Contender as it has switchable firing pins for center and rim fire. Or a S&W Model 53 revolver. A better shot of the rim would help figure out if this a .221 Askins. It's possible that someone machined a case as an experiment. Or a object for trolling AR15.com. I appreciate you thinking I have that kind of talent. See my other comment above about tracing the cartridge back through its chain of custody. Well, I don't know how to undead someone, but I do like the idea above about pulling the bullet to see if there's any powder in it. Don't do that. I am sure there is powder in it. This is a real cartridge I would bet. Don't destroy it for curiosity's sake. |
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This but I think it based off the 22 mag. Quoted:
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.22 Cooper Centerfire Magnum (CCM) ? This but I think it based off the 22 mag. .22 CCM was intended to match .22 magnum with a center fire cartridge. Cooper had poor success with getting the ammunition into production and even tried machining cases as an interim solution. One of the specialty ammunition companies was still making a rare run of CCM ammo with drawn cases up til 5 years back, but it was expensive and pretty much a boutique product to include with an intact rifle. I have to wonder how many Coopers with the original chambering are still around. I have seen one. Cooper offered a rebarreling service at one time, probably would still do the work for someone that wanted to use the gun. |
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I've seen a remington 5 series in 5mm once at a gun show. I love the little tube fed 582s, so this rifle caught my eye. Seems sportsman guide sold 5mm ammo awhile back. Quoted:
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This is related but doesn't explain your specific case... At one time Remington made 5mm rimfire magnum. Sort of its version of 22WMR. Rem stopped producing 5mm ammo. There were still lots of solid rifles on the market, just no ammo. A few companies started doing RF to CF conversions, as well as selling the new Cf cases for these to work will. These were, of course, a reload option. I don't know that I'd say "companies" were doing the conversions on the 591. More like a few gunsmiths/tinkerers. The brass could be made from .22 Hornet if you first turned down the diameter of the rim as I recall. There were also conversions to different calibers - the 58/59X actions were basically 2/3 scale 788 designs. Ridiculously strong for a .22. And since it was a 2 piece bolt the conversion of that component was easy. And then Aquila started producing ammo again after the .17 HMR got popular, and now the rifles that gun shops couldn't give away became collectors items. :( Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I've seen a remington 5 series in 5mm once at a gun show. I love the little tube fed 582s, so this rifle caught my eye. Seems sportsman guide sold 5mm ammo awhile back. The 591 was the bolt action in 5mm, and the 592 was tube fed. The ammo comes and goes. One conversion that I haven't seen done would be converting to .17 HMR using a Redman liner. The barrel is only held to the action by 2 pins, making it really easy to pull off and machine. For my own part I have parts for a 580 that I intend to convert to fire 7.62x25. After that either move to a mag fed (ugly) or tube fed. |
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Not really the same thing, but I saw some rimfire primed .22LR brass for sale at a gun show in Dayton, OH back in '93-ish.
Being sold by a husband and wife who were also marketing some really cool, bizarre contender barrels in wildcat calibers. I remember they had barrels, dies, bullets and loaded ammo for two .14 caliber cartridges: one of which was a .32acp necked down. I can't remember what the other one was. |
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Quoted: Rimfire cases are made from very thin sheet brass with minimal drawing. Centerfire cases from much thicker sheet with much more three dimensional forming. So those cases were made on special machinery. I would suppose they can only be used in a TC Contender as it has switchable firing pins for center and rim fire. That's it. The OP's friend needs to buy a Contender now. |
| Update: Buddy #2 looked through the loose rounds this one came from and only found one more, he thought Buddy #1 had taken home more than just the one that "misfired". So, there's only 2. That sucks, I was hoping to have one for the ammo collection. That being the case, there's no way we're going to pull a bullet to check for powder, plus that might not necessarily mean anything. Buddy #2 also thought about it and isn't so sure that he got them from his deceased friend. We told him to ponder where else they could have come from over his Steel Reserve tall boys tonight, because nobody has been able to solve this. |