[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .357 Myth??????? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/2/2006 5:03:07 PM EDT
| I'm arguing with a guy on another forum who says the .357 magnum can crack an engine block. I heard this is a hollywood myth. Who is right? |
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Well if you put enough speed on a lead bullet so that its overall energy is greater than the highest possible normal force of the steel it is going to do damage to the steel. |
Damage does NOT = cracking steel.......... |
No but enough damage could crack steel. That just means that you would need more energy(in this case velocity). |
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If you're into cracking engine blocks, buy up a few rounds of that black tipped surplus 30/06 ammo from a local gunshow. That'll get you close. A .357, w/ common lead or jacketed bullets, ain't even in the ball park. If you get close enough - you might get a nice scar on your belly or your forehead, and a chance to explain to the cops how you were dumb enough to shoot yourself after they stitch you up in the ER. Not that I'd know from personal experience. |
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A lot of Blocks are made of aluminum these days. Can it penetrate and let the coolent out? Sure. Can it go through cylinders and kill the driver? No. It all depends on what you mean by "crack the block" Would you let him shoot a .357 at your engine block? Basically, he is correct. |
Check the Minnesota Home Town Forun and there are pics of a car that we shot the piss out of. Most any caliber you can imagine, to include .50 BMG and the block was far from cracked. In fact the area behind the motor was surprisingly intact after multple BMG assaults.......Myth Busted.
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10 bucks says a 10 lb lead projectile at 3000 fps cracks 1" steel plate.  Just messing with ya. |
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In the video "Deadly Weapons: Firearms and Firepower" they dispel this and many other gun myths. The 357 will not do fuck all to an engine block, including with a KTW armor piercing round. KTW rounds are Teflon coated incidentally which has nothing to do with penetration (another myth) and everything to do with protecting your barrel when the hard rounds are fired through it. Alexander Jason shoots an engine block point blank with a 357 and all it does is leave a slightly discolored mark. He also gets shot point blank by a 7.62X51mm FN FAL while wearing a rifle rated vest. Twice. Once while balanced on one leg. Not only does it not knock him flying, it barely moves him at all. The impact is negligible. |
Blocks are Cast Iron. strong, tough, but as brittle as all get out. I have never fired at an engine block, but I found a rough old skillet that I thought woud ring when shot. I hung it on a tree branch and fired at it with a .22lr rifle. To my surprise it did not ring but a hole was punched through a cast iron skillet that was 1/4 in thick. |
Again, that's a caliber that starts with a .3! Of course it didn't do anything to him. Go watch Last Man Standing. He uses two .45's to blow that one guy through the window and like half way down the street!  On a serious note...I'm going to have to track down that video! There's something disturbingly weird about watching someone take a round to the vest On Purpose! How about the military and using the M82 to take out cars and trucks? I'm pretty sure there was a thread here by one of our Military Members that witness that... |
It's an awesome video...a must have for someone into what firearms actually can and can't do (as opposed to a Fudd, someone who just punches paper or someone who thinks the holloywood/TV version of guns is real). Here is a clip: video - shot by 308 point blank |
Only if there is enough air in the tank to ignite the fumes. If it's all gasoline and no fumes, it will just burn. Cousin watched one of his boats burn like that. Kept waiting for the explosion, he was in 'nam, never happened, because the tank was full. |
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The definition of "engine block" has changed since the days of Elmer Keith. An old Fort 289 cubic inch 8 cylinder? Damn tooting, a .357 will crack it. Its cast iron. Not steel. Hard, but brittle. When I was a younger man working at my dad's auto shop, I saw engine blocks cracked setting them down too hard from the cherry picker. More modern engine blocks made of alloys and steels, not cast iron. Less likely. |
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I loaded a .357 using a pulled military ball .38 and knocked a 2" hole in the side of a 283 chevy. As mentioned already theyre cast iron not steel and the side area that is normally covered by the exhaust manifold is so thin that you can pop a hole in it with a ball peen hammer. Fly your bullshit flags all you want, It CAN be done! |
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Did you forget about all the other shit the bullet has to pass through before even getting to the engine? Fender(outter & inner), battery, hose and lines ect. Even if you manage to crack the engine block I dont think the car will stop dead in its tracks. If you could crack a brake rotor thats a different story. |
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All the OP asked was could a .357 crack an engine block. Absolutly. Does that mean it will stop the engine? NO Does that mean it will kill the driver behind it? NO I had a freind that pulled a Corolla engine that had thrown a rod. The casting wasn't even a 1/4'' thick. A.357 can easilly penetrate 1/4'' cast aluminum. |
| I shot up some old engine blocks in a dump many years ago. A 22LR will penetrate the water jacket most of the time. It was a matter of bullet vs brittle iron casting. A 30-06 M2 FMJ would also blast through the water jacket but would not penetrate the cylinder wall. A 30-06 AP would go through the water jacket and one side of the cylinder wall, but would not penetrate the other cylinder wall. |
I know an officer that has a pending lawsuit against second chance. he took 2 out of three rounds through his vest. one round went through the front, hit tha back and bounced back. caused a lot of damage. |
| It depends on the block and like any kill shot, shot placement. Sure, in the correct location a 357 Mag will penetrate a water jacket of a cast iron or aluminum engine block. Modern steel engine blocks are stronger and less likely to be penetrated but it is still possible. |
I don't know anyone involved but I have heard about the suit(s) against them. The company fell apart somewhere along the way. That video is a few years old though and I think it's from a time when their reputation and the performance of their product was good. |
Hey KC, Maybe it's time to start a ''Lawnmower of Truth Thread !
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I believe this myth goes all the way back to 1935 when the 'Magnum' was introduced and was the only 'Magnum' available at that time. Reports of polar bear and moose being killed with the powerful new Magnum surfaced along with police reports of it being the only HG cartridge able to penetrate the thick metal bodies of the cars in that era. Special 'Highway Patrol' AP rounds were made by Winchester available to LE agencies using the cartridge. IIRC they were 150grs. with a sharp point driven to a slightly higher velocity than standard and didn't come along until the 60's. The original loading of the Magnum was 158gr. lead semi-wadcutter driven to 1515fps out of a 8" barrel. S&W even named the first .357mag revolver 'The Magnum'. If anyone in Chicagoland has property i can use, i'll be glad to shoot some video footage of me shooting into some type of engine block with the end results. We lost our 50 acre property shooting range to developers a few years back (i openly wept  ) and have no where to conduct this experiment.I have a few .357's we can use - even a .357Sig. And just for shits n giggles, i'll shoot the sum bitch with everything else i have - you name it, i probably have it or access to (even a big .50)  |
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Somebody donate an engine block to the box o' truth. SImple solution. I do agrre with the comments that older blocks wree more brittle vs. the newer material, though. I would not be surprised with the right load and, most importantly, bullet if it could be done. |