Posted: 5/5/2006 5:33:22 AM EDT
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hi all i have posted this already in the reloading forum, but i didnt get to many responses on this so i figured i will give it a try here. i have been reloading for a coupel years and now i am thinking about casting my own bullets. 45 at first. I have heard about casting and read a little on it. i was wondering, can u use the lead from tire wieghts and is it as simple as melting the lead and the pouring it into the mold. I think that i read somewhere that another chemical should be added. Im not sure on this. Does wnyone have a link for a website that goes into how to cast bullets. i did a search and came up with a bunch of stuff from midway. Looking for info on how to do this without burning down the house. thanks lojack |
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WW's are fine, it's all I use. If you are casting for .45ACP there wont be any issues in regards to hardness. First you have to smelt a mess of them at a time Safety first Glasses, outside w/ventilation, mask, long sleeve and pants, apron, etc.... 1. Get a coleman type outdoor stove 2. Iron pot that will hold about a gallon 3. iron ladel for stirring 3.5 strainer for getting crap out 4. muffin pans or the like 5. wax candle 6. Gloves Melt all the WW's together Dig out crap that floats to the top put a pea sized piece of wax in the mix and stir well pour into muffin pans let cool That's it in a nutshell for the smelting, keep adding WW's when the pot is half empty so they will melt more quickly. To cast... Get the big Lee Pro Pot with bottom pour Get your favorite 2 cavity mould (to start with) get a can of drop free or matches will do fine coat the moulds with drop free or burn with match to blacken fill the moulds to just overflowing whack the sprue off release onto a towel to cool load em up, move em out There are many missed steps here, these are just the broad steps, do not follow these instructions explicity. You have research to do but you get the picture. Have fun! |
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For pistol rounds, wheel weight lead is ok. If you're going to do something like BPCR, or some kind of rifle bullets, and shoot in matches, it's generally not advised to used wheel weight lead. There's no real standard for consistency of the lead and other elements, which can cause variations in the weight of cast bullets... variation is bad if you're going for long range precision. I cast bullets for .45-70 BPCR, and stick with 30:1 lead:tin to keep it pretty consistent. Beeswax is used as a flux agent, and works pretty well. I also don't have to size or use that thick sticky blue lube. You usually need a sizer/lube machine to do that, so look into it further. Maybe go buy a book about casting bullets. |
IMO, it's not worth the hassle for 9mm, at least the last time I shopped for 9mm. I don't do .40. |
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If money isnt a major concern, I would buy either a RCBS or a Lyman bottom pour casting furnace. I used the lead ladle for awhile and its a pain in the ass compared to the Lyman bottom pour I have now. If you look around for Lymans Pistol and Revolver handbook it has a very good how to on casting bullets, as well as reloading data that it basically dedicated to cast bullets. Also the wax thing, I use bullet lube for this, doesnt work very well unless you light it on fire after you drop it in. |
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This is from another forum, it is not my work but excellent info. I believe I got this from 1911forums.com This is for the folks who wrote and said that they wanted a little more info on casting their own. While I do not claim to be even close to an expert with casting, I have picked up a few things over the years, and I hope that by sharing them others will benefit. Moderators, experienced casters and others, please chime in if I miss something, OK? First considerations Bullet casting is simple, but it's not for the simple minded. There are things that will go ouch, and things that will hurt for a long time if you don't take some simple precautions. Here's what I've learned: 1. Take the proper precautions. This means that you must use the following: High-temp gloves, suitable for handling hot metals. Full-length heavy denim work clothes, preferably with an apron. This will protect you from hot metal splashes and spills. Safety goggles or glasses--ALWAYS. Breathing protection. A filter mask is OK, a respirator is better. Baby wipes--for the immediate wipedown right after casting. Good, heavy work shoes. 2. Always be aware of SAFETY! You will be handling, pouring, and holding molten metal, in excess of 600 degrees F. in temperature. This stuff doesn't play, folks. Deep tissue burns can happen in a second with this stuff. NEVER hold the hot molds over ANY part of your body. DO NOT allow any type of moisture around the casting area. One drop of water can cause a steam explosion, which will spit molten metal all over. Tain't pretty. ALWAYS wear breathing and eye protection when casting. Use the breathing protection to keep lead particulates from entering your respiratory system. Eye protection? See paragraph above. Keep the temperature of your lead pot below 800 degrees. At about 900-1000 degrees, the lead actually starts to vaporize, and you will actually inhale some of it. Lead is a cumulative poison, as we all know. Cast outside, or use a good fan, blowing right across the pot, out an open window. When you are done casting, or take a break, use the baby wipes to wipe your hands first. Then wash with plenty of hot soapy water. DO NOT smoke, eat or drink ANYTHING before you do this. That's all for part one. Reflect on this if you want; I'll post Part II tomorrow. Oh, if you want to read up on all of this, I suggest any good book on casting will give you the heads up. Well, here's the second installment. Many thanks to the folks who added to the first part. Again, bullet casters and moderators, feel free to add to this list as needed. OK, everyone read the safety part? Good. Now let?s go on to what you need to actually start casting. 1. Smelter (i.e., lead pot, kettle, etc.) There is no law that says you have to buy an electric pot, or that you have to ladle pour. Each part has its benefits and disadvantages. The cheapest way to go by far is to get a cast iron pot, and a propane burner. The propane will last an amazingly long time, and the iron pot will last forever. If you go the iron route, get a small pot. One of these filled with alloy is amazingly heavy. The best buy on the market for the bullet caster, IMHO, is the Lee Pro 20 lead pot. For about $70.00, you can?t beat it. It has all the features you need?a good pour mechanism, a thermostat, and a great price. 2. Small fan This blows across the pot while you cast. 3. Protective clothing, goggles/safety glasses, shoes. 4. Molds. The subject of molds has been discussed?and cussed about?more than any other single aspect of bullet casting. For it is the mold that has the final say in the manufacture of the bullet. If you cast for rifles, you might consider a nose-pour mold. This makes sure that the base of the bullet is perfect, which is essential for accuracy. For handguns, you can use either. Again, the most economical molds are available from Lee in any configuration you might imagine. 5. A ?beater? stick Get a good hickory hammer handle, or even a rawhide or wooden mallet. This is to help get the bullets from the mold?more on this later. 6. A way to size and lube the bullets. For the caster on the budget, again Lee gets the nod with a push through sizer that actually works quite well. For right at $110, you can get (IMHO) the best lubrisizer in existence?the Star, now made by Magma Engineering. The unique thing about the Star is that you can add on a bullet feeder, a collator, and an air handler to pressurize the lube. 7. A source for alloy I use wheelweights purchased from a scrap metal yard, at about $40 for 150 pounds. Good and economical. I?ll talk about a way to save even more money later. 8. Flux. When you cast lead alloy, you will notice that you have a lot of junk on the top of the melt. This is trash, to be sure?but it is also a good portion of the tin from your melt. Tin in bullets can be a good thing, as it is what makes bullets harder. Tin is also useful in getting the molded bullets to fill out. Adding flux to the melt does two things?it places the tin, antimony and lead back into solution, and makes the melt easier to pour. There are a few things that you can use for flux; however, the best thing I?ve found is Marvelux, by Brownell?s. This stuff works wonders. You can also use candle wax, or beeswax?but make darned sure you use it outdoors. 9. Miscelleaneous You?ll need some towels, a padded box, or a coffee can with a towel and rubber bands. I?ll talk about that later. Now that we have all of your stuff, it?s time to cast the bullets. Well, as promised, here is the third installment. Assuming that we have the equipment necessary, and have reviewed and fully understand the safety precautions yet again, it?s time to make some bullets! Here?s where I use the propane burner, outside. I will take my buckets of raw wheelweights, pick out all of the tire stems and associated garbage, and throw them into the cast iron pot. I then fire up the burner, wait for the stuff to melt fully, and then scoop out the metal clips. Here?s where you can use a metal spoon (with a wooden handle) to clean the melt. I drilled a series of holes in my spoon, obtained at the local Goodwill for 75 cents. Incidentally, this is where I got my cast iron pot, too?cost all of 1.50. Word of advice, though?use a SMALL pot! If you use a big pot, you won?t be able to lift it, and the weight of the metal might break the stand it is on. The worst part is that if this happens, you will have molten metal splashing all over every thing in sight. Best bet?use a small pot, and melt out in the yard, or on the ground. After the melting is done, I will flux well, with Marvelux. I like this stuff because it doesn?t make too many fumes?but I still wear a filter mask while doing it. Candle wax works well?just remember that the fumes coming off the pot are highly flammable. When fluxing the melt, you must stir well, from the bottom of the pot to the top, and back again. You don?t need to whip the melt like eggs, just give it good agitation. If you want a stockpile of clean alloy like I do, you can pour the melt into ingot molds. Make sure that the molds are ON THE GROUND when you do this. WARNING!! The ingots will be hot for quite some time. To prevent injury, after I cast all of the ingots I want, I turn off the stove, move away, and spray the ingots with a garden hose. I then let them air dry before packing them in. Now, we?ll get down to the meat. Step 1. Throroughly clean the molds, with alcohol or a solvent like brake cleaner. Let them air dry. Then use a kitchen match (wooden), carbide lamp, or something else that makes a lot of sooty smoke (candles work fine) to smoke the insides of the molds. Make sure you smoke the underside of the sprue plate and the tops of the molds, too. TIP: I use Midway?s Mold Release. This stuff is a gray-black spray?NOT for use indoors! Spray the insides, top, and bottom or the sprue plate, and the top of a COLD mold with this stuff. Let it dry well. Now, set a kitchen burner on low heat, and set the molds on it. Don?t park the handles over the burners. Let them sit while you prepare the rest of your equipment. Step 2: Set up your pot. Load it up with alloy, and turn it on. If you use an electric bottom pour pot, set some ingot molds under the spout to catch potential drips. Step 3: Obtain a really large towel, and fold it to provide a cushion. Lay it to the side of your pot. TIP: I am a high volume caster, meaning I will crank out about 1000 to 2000 bullets in one sitting. I need a way to cool the bullets, keep them centrally located, and not just dump the bullets on one another. So, I get a coffee can, a shop rag, and some rubber bands. Cut a slit in the center of the rag, about 2-3 inches long. Now, fill the coffee can about 2/3 with water. Place the shop rag across the top, and secure it with the rubber bands. Make sure that there is some slack in the rag (not tight across the top like a drumhead). IMPORTANT! If you are casting on a table, set the water can OFF the table, next to one of the legs. This eliminates the chance of water splashing into the pot. Step 4. Wait for the alloy to melt. Get on all of your protective gear. After the melt is ready, flux with the substance of your choice. Now, it?s time to cast. Go get your molds. If they?re Lee molds, you?re going to have to heat them up to a higher temperature; this is because aluminum loses heat so quickly. Also, you?ll have to make the melt hotter than normal with these molds. Sit down, and position the molds under the spout. Open the valve, and allow the alloy to go into the mold. If you?re using a multiple cavity mold, KEEP THE VALVE OPEN, and move the mold to the next cavity. Continue until the cavities are filled; by this time you should have a good amount of lead on top of the mold, too. This is the sprue, and it is very important. Why? The alloy shrinks as it cools. As it does, it pulls away from the inner surfaces of the mold. The sprue acts as a reserve of metal; as the bullets cool, or quite literally, ?freeze?, more metal is drawn down into the mold from the sprue. This keeps the weight of the bullet uniform, and preserves the base in bottom pour designs. You will actually see a dimple develop over each mold cavity as metal is drawn into the bullet. Wait for the sprue to cool before opening the plate. Trial and error here will allow you to learn exactly how long it takes for the sprue to cool on your mold. Generally, you should wait until the sprue develops a slightly frosted appearance?about 10-15 seconds. If you have to wait longer than that, the metal is too hot. Turn down the thermostat or burner a bit. WARNING! Do NOT hold the molds over your legs while waiting for the sprue to cool. Molten metal can still spill from the top of the mold?and it is hotter than hammered h-e-double toothpicks. This stuff can give you a 3rd degree deep tissue burn in less time than it takes to read this sentence. Be careful! Now, open the mold. Take the whack-um stick or operate the sprue plate on Lee 6-cavity molds. With the stick, give a good sharp smack to the sprue plate, while holding the molds over a padded surface. The sprue should fly off onto the padded surface. Remember, the sprue is still hot, so be careful. If this is your first time casting, turn the molds to the side, and tap the hinge pin a few times before opening the mold. Open them slowly while the mold is on its side, and behold your handwork?a lovely line of cast bullets, awaiting your pleasure in gleaming perfection. Okay, now go to the water can with the mold. Simply dump the bullets onto the cloth over the water. As the bullets go through the slit, and hit the water, they will cool instantly. Now, repeat the process until: a) You run out of alloy; b) Your arms feel like spaghetti; c) your wife tells you to stop the nonsense, clean up, and come to dinner. Step 5: Cleanup Now that you?re done for the day, you face a challenge. You must make sure that probable self contamination is kept to a minimum risk, and ensure that this contamination does not spread. First, turn off all heat sources. Lay the molds to the side, and let them air cool. NEVER quench your molds, or spray water on them. Now, pick up all of your tools?the spoons, the whacking stick, etc.?and put them in a large box with the casting pot?after it cools down, of course. After you have secured all of the tools and equipment, dump the bullets out of the can. Spread them on a few layers of newspaper, and let them sit for a while. Remove your apron, and leave it hanging OUTSIDE. If this is not feasible, give them a few good shakes, while wearing your gloves and mask, and do it with the wind blowing on your back. This will help get rid of the particulates and what have you from the smelting. Now, remove your gloves. Get the baby wipes (you did bring them, right?) and wipe off your hands immediately. Here?s the important part. Get your baby wipes ready, and at hand. Close your eyes, hold your breath, and remove the filter mask. Let it drop. Grab a baby wipe, and wipe off your face. Now use a second set of wipes to go over all of your exposed skin. Dispose of these in a bag, tie the bag off, and throw it away. Now, go inside, and wash up well. For your family?s sake, don?t wash your apron in the same load with any clothes. Best bet is to spray it off outside when it gets dirty, hand wash if necessary, and let it air dry. Now, admire the pile of paper-punching, game-busting beauties you just made. The next post will cover lubing. Thanks, all! By the way?let me know how you like this stuff. If it is helping you out, and you think it?s worthwhile, post a response here on the board. Lube it up!! OK! So, now we have this pile of cast bullets?made by our own hands, and chomping at the bit to go shoot that perfect score, or to take down that game animal, or for practice or just plinking. Maybe they?re 185 gr. LSWC, loaded to make major for IPSC. Perhaps 200 gr. HG 68?s for the long line in Conventional Pistol, or 250 gr. LRN for .45 Colt in Cowboy Action Shooting. On the other side, you could have some long 180 gr. 30 caliber bullets sized to .309 for that Schuetzen match?or some 400 grain heavyweights for your .45-70. Whatever they are, we now have the task ahead of lubricating the bullets, and sizing them. Why do we size bullets? In a nutshell, the answer is consistency. You can lube without sizing but it is a real bummer on the firing line to have rounds that won?t chamber. So, we lube! The process is simplicity in itself?you must get something into the grease grooves of the bullet to ease the passage of lead down the bore. One of the biggest complaints about shooting lead is that for some people it makes a mess out of the bore, and is hard to clean. Lubrication will help to prevent that problem?however, the real culprit is likely to be a rough bore, or one in which you have fired a quantity of jacketed bullets without cleaning. Either of these two will leave deposits in the bore. First, let?s decide what type of lubrication process we will use. 1. Hand lubing has been used since man first cast bullets?and believe it or not, it remains a viable option today. You will find that hand lubing is preferred when casting precision bullets, such as those used in Schuetzen rifles. The molds are cut to exactly .001 over bore diameter?sometimes a bit bigger, and the caster has perfected the precise alloy mix to achieve the desired weight for his or her bullet. So, the bullet comes from the mold in almost pristine shape. The process used here for lubing is a shallow pan, and a cutter, usually fashioned from a cut-off cartridge case. Bullet lube is melted and poured into the pan to cover the grease grooves. When the lube solidifies, the individual bullets are cut from the lube cake. The main advantage to this method is that you will have the bullet, as cast, in almost perfect condition. The disadvantage is that you MUST have a custom mold for this. Regular molds and wheelweights are too inconsistent, and will yield different weights and diameters. 2. The most common type of lubrication by far is the machine-assisted lube. With this, you purchase a lubrisizer and dies of the correct diameter?for cast bullets, this is usually .001 over bore diameter. The lubrisizer is loaded with the lube of your choice, and bullets are processed through the machine. The lubrisizer does three operations?it sizes bullets to the same diameter, applies lubrication to the grease grooves, and if desired will seat a gas check. Gas checks are little copper cups that are applied to the base of cast bullets to prevent flame cutting of the bullet. They also provide a uniform base to the bullet. Gas checked bullets have a big advantage?they can be pushed to significantly higher velocities than regular cast bullets. NOTE WELL----gas checked bullets take bullets cast from specific molds!!! These are easily identified by the presence of a stepped down heel at the base of the bullet. The very best machines, IMHO, are those which push the bullet through the die nose first. In this case, again IMHO, the Star is the ne plus ultra of hand operated machines. It has significant advantages?constant lube pressure applied by a spring loaded plunger allows lubing lots of bullets before adjusting lube pressure; the push through design, and a big plus?to my knowledge it is the only hand operated sizer that can be upgraded to fully automated operation. Everything from bullet feeders to air pressure systems are available. Check out www.magmaengineering.com and you?ll see what I mean. This is not to say that other manufacturers do not make good machines. The Lyman sizer is well known for ease of operation and versatility. The RCBS lubrisizer does a good job too?I still have one for small runs of different calibers. But the one which in my opinion has been overlooked is the Lee sizer. This sizer?which is nothing more than a hollow die and a punch which fits into your press ram?only costs a few bucks, and if you decide to use the pan method of lubrication is the ideal tool to size a previously lubed bullet. Simply place the bullet on the ram, and lower the press handle to push the bullet through the die. That?s it!! Dip-lubing (also known as tumble lubing) has a tendency to be really messy. Here, the liquid lube is placed on bullets in a small container, which are swished around and allowed to air dry. I don?t do this one because it is really, really messy. However, there is one other alternative which I?ll talk about later. 2. Types of lube Here we have the conundrum?ask people what the best lube is, and you?ll get answers ranging from pure beeswax to arcane mixtures that are conjured up with black hat and broomstick. Here are the ones that I have had good luck with, and some others that I have heard really good things about. Javelina ALOX?This is the one I use most of all. Comes in sticks, ready to put in the lubrisizer. It really does a good job on bullets fired at low to medium velocities. I use it for my Bullseye load?200 gr. HG 68 bullet, 3.9 grains of Clays, Federal 150 primers, with bullets sized to .452 inches. Crimp diameter used is .470. This load holds 2? or less at 50 yards, fired from a sandbag rest. Saeco Gold?Another soft lube that does wonders for bore protection. Plus, I really like the ease of working with it. RCBS lube?Comes in green sticks (of course!), and is comparable with the top two. The lubes above have one characteristic?they are soft lube which do not require heating to apply. Hard lubes require a heater under the lubrisizer. These have one big advantage?they are not sticky when cool, and don?t gum everything up like soft lubes tend to do. These have different brand names?the ones I have heard good things about are Rooster Red and Thompson Blue Angel. I have no personal experience with them?but they are used by a lot of commercial casters. Remember the alternative I mentioned earlier? Here it is? Bullseye shooters shoot a lot of lead bullets, and a few of us are casters. Consequently, we have no use for anything that leaves lead in the bore?the pistols used must be able to deliver the same accuracy on the last shot as the first. So anything that we can find that decreases leading is of use to us. We already use the cleanest powders available?Titegroup, Clays, and the VihtaVouri powders?and finding good bullets and lubes are of great importance. So you can imagine the excitement when one of the folks posted on the message board the salutary effects of a lube called Rooster Jacket lube?available from Graf and Sons, and from the company itself. From what I understand, the process is simple?swish bullets in it, and let them air dry. Tests done with everything from dead-soft lead to linotype have showed NO leading when this lube is used. One of the listmembers?a commercial loader?is in the process of trying this stuff out on totally un-lubed bullets. The possibilities that this raises are exciting indeed. I?ll post results when I hear them?but if you want to try yourself, do a search for Rooster Laboratories. Well, that?s all for lubricating the bullet?in the next post we?ll talk a bit about sizing. After that, I will pass along some tips I have learned over the years for making the cast bullet work for me, and some QA/QC procedures you can follow to ensure good results. The final posting will talk a bit about load development for cast bullets. See you all later, and good shooting! Again, all comments are welcome. http://szexlista.funpic.hu/attachments/hu/289-1.jpg |
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Don't know if this was posted so I will say it. Tip #1. If you are going to use wheel weights you have to sort them first!!!! You need to get out all of the weights that are shinny. They are ZINC plated. If you melt these down in your lead it will increase the surface tension of the lead to the point that it will not fill out the mould well. Throw anything away that looks shinny or you can see metal flaking off the surface. It sucks to melt down 100lbs of WWs just to find out the lead is use less for anything but sinkers (although it does make your fishing buddies happy!) Tip #2. If casting pistol bullets add in 1/4 pound of 95/5 solder per 9-10 1lb ingots. By 95/5 i mean 95% Tin and 5% Antimony. This will make the lead muck easier to poor. I have caste 1000s of .401 155gn SWC, .357 155gn GCSWC and .451 200gn SWC using this mixture. I never have fill out problems and it makes a very nice bullet. Don't add more thinking it will make things easier. You will just was Tin and you will have to buy that more than likely. Tip #3. Melt outside. When i do wheel weights i do ~ 2-4 5 gallon buckets at once. I use a Propane Deep fat fryer cooker and a caste iron skillet. A propane tourch is also handy to help the melting process. I set up everything outside on the sidewalk. With all of the trash on the weights and the ones that are coated with a polymer to seal them this is a nessecity. |
Dont' over look the Lee production pot. I have never splurged for a fancy 20lb pot. If you want to really get to churning them out buy 2 Lee production pots (the higher clearence model). You can fire both of them up running 2 Lyman double cavity moulds. Heat them both up and add 95/5. Empty one them start emptying the second one. While you are working the second pot have the first pot heating back up with more ingots. By the time you finish the second pot, the first one is ready to go and repeat the process. This way your moulds to not cool off. If you run into heating problems (IE frosty bullets) you can slow down a little bit. |
Look at the smaller hardware stores or plumbing supply houses. Or you can find and order it online im sure. |
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its alot of fun but hot lead hurts! one time i think i used pure lead plates that I found dumped somewhere (hopefully not radioactive) anyways I melted them down and cast them, the lead was so fucking soft though, probably a good self defense round but it fouled the barrel very bad. |
I bought all of mine at Home Depot. I bought about 20 rolls about 2 years ago. I was just at Home Dopet the other day and picked up a roll of 95/5 Acid core for a plumbing project. They also had 95/5 with a rosin core for electrical soldering so i picked up a roll of that to add to me collections. I have used the rosin core stuff before. It works just smells bad but you should be doing this outside so it does not matter. All else fails Midway USA sells pure tin ingots. You can cut it up to approx. 1/4 lb and use that. If you are using the Tin from Midway you will not get the 5% Antimony but that is fine as Wheel Weights have plenty to begin with. |
Excellent point!! When I was maybe nine I had molten lead explode into my face as a result of inadvertently pouring some onto a single drop of water. I wasn’t wearing eye protection, but luckily I closed my eyes and took the lead on my eyelid, not eye. As I recoiled back, I spilt the lead from my ladle (a peanut butter jar lid with baling wire handle) along the front of my thigh. Luckily I was wearing long jeans, which no doubt saved me from a horrific burn. Then I stepped on some of the lead I had just spilt, but my luck ran out there since I was barefoot. Not one of my better (or brighter) days!! (I still marvel at the fact that I actually survived my childhood!)  Incidentally, my understanding is that after exposure to lead you should wash up with cool water. Also, get yourself some D-Lead soap (Brownells sells it) – it’s made specifically to remove heavy metals from your skin. And in addition to your hands, be sure and wash your face. |
Buffalo arms. I use 30:1 Lead:tin and it works good... I think it could do minie balls alright. |