Posted: 9/24/2009 8:19:15 AM EDT
| Doing a speech on why colleges should allow CCW next week. Does any one have any good points I can throw in or links to good data? I already have a basic outline in my mind about what I'm going to cover, just looking for some good input. Thanks |
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VA Tech was a gun free zone. ETA: Law enforcement response was very quick, but as the bumper sticker says, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. ETAA: Here's an Officer.com article written by an LEO |
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you must go to concealed campus for talking points.
Also, see if your campus has a campus representative. If not, please volunteer to be one. We need your help. |
| For the "but college students aren't mature enough, they'll just kill eachother in drunken brawl" folks, point out that Utah has allowed it for a fairly long time, and NOTHING'S happened. Not surprising, suicidal killers don't seem to want to shoot up our campuses. |
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Take a look at:
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/ http://www.jpfo.org/ You say you know all the good points. However, it is an art to articulate and persuade. Don't forget those skills too. Emotion works wonders. If you can, tell a gripping story, make it personal, have some pictures that hit home. Have your facts 100% accurate. The difference between a good presentation and a bad one has little to do with actual material. Umm, 4238 young women were assaulted last year on campus. They all should have been carrying a pistol,,,,, any questions? Or, Let me tell you about a close friend of mine and what happened to her last week...... I'm wishing you the very best! |
| A friend of mine's older sister was saved from almost certain rape by another student, who happened to be a USMC vet, violating their schools ccw policy. She was in a parking garage late at night, two individuals approached, followed and cornered her. Another student on the way to his car had his spidey sense tell him something was wrong and intervened. Drew, held them for over 10 minutes until campus security showed up in their golf cart. Both the scumbags were convicted felons and one was a registered sex offender. Thankfully, the good Samaritan didn't suffer any backlash. The school, which I also attended, is a very prominent public university that is NOTORIOUS for covering up sexual assaults on campus. I don't think they wanted the bad press, so they overlooked the gun. There's my two cents. |
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Quoted:
A friend of mine's older sister was saved from almost certain rape by another student, who happened to be a USMC vet, violating their schools ccw policy. She was in a parking garage late at night, two individuals approached, followed and cornered her. Another student on the way to his car had his spidey sense tell him something was wrong and intervened. Drew, held them for over 10 minutes until campus security showed up in their golf cart. Both the scumbags were convicted felons and one was a registered sex offender. Thankfully, the good Samaritan didn't suffer any backlash. The school, which I also attended, is a very prominent public university that is NOTORIOUS for covering up sexual assaults on campus. I don't think they wanted the bad press, so they overlooked the gun. There's my two cents. Yeah I went to that school too! It's called EVERY STATE UNIVERSITY. they all cover up "incidents" on and around campus. Why do you think they have their own police forces? |
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If you would like to be creative, have a buddy loudly barge into the class (right after you start your presentation), with a banana in his hand, yelling "it's going down, motherfuckers!" or something like that.
When everyone stops laughing, tell them to imagine that it's Seung-Hui Cho, standing there, and that they are in a classroom at Virginia Tech. Then, ask for a show of hands - how many students honestly believe that the campus police would be able to show up in the next 30 seconds, and prevent him from shooting everyone in the room. Then, ask for a show of hands - how many students would prefer (in that moment) that at least one person in the class (perhaps the instructor) had the training and license to carry a concealed handgun. Presentation over. 
NOTE - If you're even going to consider that route, get permission from the instructor first (especially if your buddy is going to be wearing a ski mask). I cannot emphasize that enough. If you get explicit permission from the instructor, nobody's sandy vagina over the presentation should be able to get you in trouble. |
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I would suggest being clear on the facts. 1.Bring up all of the mass shootings in gun free zones 2.Bring up the requirements for having a CCW in your state. Lots of people arguments are that 18 yr olds aren't mature, but for most cases you have to be 21. 3.Find the statistics on CCW holders in your state. (TX publishes these, so maybe OH will too if not borrow TX) The statistics show that CCW holders are upstanding citizens and are much less likely to commit crimes that the general population. 4. Possibly bring up all of the various places in your state that people can and do carry and remind them that nobody got shot accidently etc. Good luck, Id suggest being proffesional and not going the crazy gun nut route. And if you are having powerpoint you might have something like this  |
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Quoted:
If you would like to be creative, have a buddy loudly barge into the class (right after you start your presentation), with a banana in his hand, yelling "it's going down, motherfuckers!" or something like that. When everyone stops laughing, tell them to imagine that it's Seung-Hui Cho, standing there, and that they are in a classroom at Virginia Tech. Then, ask for a show of hands - how many students honestly believe that the campus police would be able to show up in the next 30 seconds, and prevent him from shooting everyone in the room. Then, ask for a show of hands - how many students would prefer (in that moment) that at least one person in the class (perhaps the instructor) had the training and license to carry a concealed handgun. Presentation over.
NOTE - If you're even going to consider that route, get permission from the instructor first (especially if your buddy is going to be wearing a ski mask). I cannot emphasize that enough. If you get explicit permission from the instructor, nobody's sandy vagina over the presentation should be able to get you in trouble. While I would love to do something like this, my speech does have to follow a format. It has to be 5-7 mins long, and I have to state my argument and facts to back it up. I think a presentation such as your example would be a great demonstration, it doesn't follow my format for a persuasive speech. |
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Do not think that you can win over anyone in the audience. Its a lot like bringing a live rattlesnake into the class (in a secure cage of course). No matter how hard you try, there is no way that you are going to make someone with a snake phobia lose their fear of your rattlesnake.
If you ever had any doubts about CCW or fears about guns that might be a very good approach to take. Share how you personally struggled and overcame your doubt or fear. Respect their right to make up their own mind. Another problem in giving this sort of presentation for me is that I do not wish others to know that I carry. Have you considered this aspect? |
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Quoted:
Right before your speech, pull a stapler from your pocket. Tell everyone that if it were a gun, all of you could be dead right now. and A CCW wouldnt have stopped it. Do NOT do this... sorry, but that isn't going to help your case and it may get you in trouble. The most convincing argunment for me is that the campus police simply cannot be everywhere, and even a 2 minute response time is not enough for something like this. It comes down to the fact that it is not police responsibility to protect us (there are court cases that say this, i forget the names), but it is our own responsibility to ensure the safety of ourselves (and I would say it's our responsibility to look out for those around us too, but some may disagree with that). My campus has an email and phone alert system that is a total joke. The majority of my classes are in basements or concrete buildings that completely isolate phones from getting signal. We would be fucked, and die... because it's impossible for the university to protect us from this sort of thing (short of a fenced off campus and screening everyone that comes in.. like a military base or something). Besides, shots would likely be fired before anyone even knows there's a shooter, and then it would be too late. People also cannot wrap their head around the fact that most gun owners are normal responsible people, often more responsible. Doing something like the stapler thing will just show poor judgment and strengthen the case against you (you'd be just another crazy gun owner in their book). Most of my anti gun friends lighten up when I finally get them to go to a range with me, and they meet people they can no longer label "insane" from a distance. |
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Quoted:
I would suggest being clear on the facts. 1.Bring up all of the mass shootings in gun free zones 2.Bring up the requirements for having a CCW in your state. Lots of people arguments are that 18 yr olds aren't mature, but for most cases you have to be 21. 3.Find the statistics on CCW holders in your state. (TX publishes these, so maybe OH will too if not borrow TX) The statistics show that CCW holders are upstanding citizens and are much less likely to commit crimes that the general population. 4. Possibly bring up all of the various places in your state that people can and do carry and remind them that nobody got shot accidently etc. Good luck, Id suggest being proffesional and not going the crazy gun nut route. And if you are having powerpoint you might have something like this http://drewjustice.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/gun-free-zone.jpg you can view the names of everyone who has a CCL in ohio... |
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Quoted: that seems like an invasion of privacy to me.Quoted: I would suggest being clear on the facts. 1.Bring up all of the mass shootings in gun free zones 2.Bring up the requirements for having a CCW in your state. Lots of people arguments are that 18 yr olds aren't mature, but for most cases you have to be 21. 3.Find the statistics on CCW holders in your state. (TX publishes these, so maybe OH will too if not borrow TX) The statistics show that CCW holders are upstanding citizens and are much less likely to commit crimes that the general population. 4. Possibly bring up all of the various places in your state that people can and do carry and remind them that nobody got shot accidently etc. Good luck, Id suggest being proffesional and not going the crazy gun nut route. And if you are having powerpoint you might have something like this http://drewjustice.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/gun-free-zone.jpg you can view the names of everyone who has a CCL in ohio... I just meant there are statistics about crime commited by CHL holders vs non CHL holders because there is an misconception by the uninformed that crazy people can get CHL's too. |
| Look up the CCW presentation one student gave at one of the Connecticut state universities recently. The instructor called the state police and had the guy shook down. They wanted to know where his guns were (they were 30 miles away). All for nothing but unreasonable fear. |
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Quoted:
Gotta be a double-shot typo. Gotta be... Yes it was... That is a very good assumption you made. My point is simply shock them with the simple truth. Most people will not truly get it until their life is in peril, at which point is too late. Go ahead and take their innocence. They will be better off without that holding them back. |
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IMO the most important thing for this type of presentation is to know your audience. Know the myths and misunderstandings they are likely to harbor and go after those things in your talk. Spend some time on anti-gun websites and know the positions of groups like Handgun Control Inc. and be able to counter those positions. You need to present yourself as someone at the students' and faculty level and someone to whom they can relate –– one of them, looking for a solution. If you come across as Gunmaster Lord on High pontificating to the sheeple, they are going to tune out or worse. My guess is that you will be speaking to a group where there will be a large percentage of people with no experience with firearms whatsoever, and that most of their firearms knowledge and knowledge relating to firearms owners comes from Hollywood, the news media and possibly other sources like Michael Moore. You need to present the types of people who will be doing CCW as who they are: stable, reasonable individuals who have no desire to use weapons except as a last resort in a life-threatening situation.
I can understand the sentiment behind doing some sort of shock maneuver to demonstrate the time factors involved in an active shooter situation on campus, but in some ways I think you would be playing into some stereotypes. You need to break the sterotype they likely have of gun owners as an angry, unpredictable and largely uneducated bunch. Most of them feel like reason and facts are on their side, and you need to show them that what they really have is a bunch of emotionalism and distorted perceptions –– of course you need to do this in a diplomatic way. From their perspective, they are afraid of CCW on campus because they feel they are going to be at the whim of unreasonable, unpredictable people with weapons –– aka "gun nuts." They view CCW holders not as saviors but as potential perpetrators. I’m sure there are a lot of risk perception issues as well. Studies have shown that people's risk perceptions are messed up. On the whole, people feel much more at risk on airlines than they do driving their own car despite the fact that they are many more times likely to be injured or killed in their own car than in an airline crash. This is because perceived risk is a direct function of perceived control –– when people perceive they are in control, they feel like they can take greater risks, whereas if they feel someone else is in control (e.g. an airline pilot or surgeon), they tolerate very little risk. You need to dissuade them from this illusion of control in a campus with no CCW (i.e. the laws and police maintain that control) and help them understand that the real risk and lack of control is when there is no one there who can do anything to stop an active shooter. You need to help them understand that they are safer when a responsible, knowledgeable firearms owner is next to them in class. This is where you can go after all those statistics and things others have mentioned, but you need to present it from the perspective of the myths and misconceptions mentioned above. |
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Make sure you have removed any firearms, ammo, camo clothing, magazines (both the reading kind and the ammo feeding kind), from your vehicle and room/apt. Even if you live off campus, and store your gear at a friends temporarily.
You will likely have some libtard prof or student "feel threatened" and that you are an implied threat. They will call the police who will come and illegally search your abode, and in short, jack you up. You will be dragged in for questioning and your mental health questioned. Be prepared. Have recording equipment handy and ready to go at all times, including a pocket recorder. Make note of badge numbers and names. Remember faces. Good luck on your speech. After all, colleges are all about freedom of speech and sharing ideas. |
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Maybe you can use some points in this review I wrote.
Some of you may have already received this information but for those who haven’t seen it I felt it would be a great benefit to you. The attached review of the Virginia Tech Active Shooter incident has a lot of info and everyone in LE should review it. Some of my thoughts on this report: ·From dispatch time to the shooter being reported as dead was only 10 minutes. ·Three ad hoc active shooter teams made entry. These teams consisted of patrol officers, ERT/SWAT members and administrative members of LE (i.e. Chief’s). ·VTPD and Blacksburg PD had trained for Active Shooter events together and had two combined AS training events in the past year before the massacre. From a training, readiness and response time aspect it would be tough to beat the actions of VTPD and BPD on that day. Actual entry time to the team being on the second floor of Norris Hall to take out the AS was 28 seconds. The delay was in the teams being able to make actual entry into the building, all doors had been chained shut from inside by the shooter. Two officers were able to get one door open partially and attempted to shoot the lock off the chain with 00 buckshot from a 12 gauge shotgun. Being unsuccessful they were able to make entry into another door by using slugs to breach the lock. This is an area that needs to be looked at in our own departments and training programs. Some departments only allow the use of buckshot to be deployed with patrol shotguns. The use of buckshot is ineffective against locks. However the use of slugs/breaching rounds have been proven to be effective against padlocks, deadbolts, hinges and other impediments. ·Patrol officer who carry shotguns need to have access to slugs/breaching rounds in addition to the standard buckshot load out. ·Officers need training in conducting shotgun shell select loading to be able to effectively transition from buckshot to slugs in such events. ·Continuous training of patrol officers in the use of shotgun slug/breaching rounds needs to take place. ·Shotguns should be available to patrol officers in addition to rifle/carbines. Each one has their place and are valuable tools to the patrol officer. A request for bolt cutters to be brought to the scene so the other padlocks could be removed to facilitate the evacuation of students and faculty took several minutes. ·Patrol cars should be equipped with a breaching kit. To include bolt cutters, small halligan tool and sledge hammer. These type kits could be placed in every other patrol car and small decal placed on the truck lid to denote the presence of a breaching kit in that vehicle. ·Training of patrol officers on regular basis in the use of these type tools should take place on continuing basis. Training should also be stressed based. The officers of VTPD and BPD were highly trained and prepared for an Active Shooter event yet the largest school massacre in US history still took place. The VTPD and BPD departments and officers were committed to AS shooter training. They had been conducting this type training for years. The departments also trained together so any blending of ad hoc AS teams could take place across departments. This training took place on a semi-annual basis. As LE we have to be prepared for an AS event. We need to train and equip our patrol officers with the skills and tools to effectively deploy against an AS. It only took a few minutes for one shooter to inflict a massive amount of casualties. ·Training and equipment for Active Shooter events should be priority in all departments. Presentations of AS events to city council members should be made to stress the importance of fully funding AS training and equipment. ·Take advantage of summer breaks, spring breaks and other holidays to conduct training at your local schools. ·Invite members of other local LEA’s to attend AS training events. ·AS shooter training is for ALL in LE, patrol officers, ERT/SWAT, and sworn administrative officers. The shooter, in this case did not all of the sudden decide to go on a murderous rampage. He thought it out, planned and trained for this day. This is something all officers need to keep in mind. The Active Shooter you go up against may have been planning and training for his event for a long time. ·The AS in this event procured weapons, magazines and ammunition for his event. ·He bought clothing, chains and padlocks for his event. ·Visited local shooting ranges to become proficient in the use of his firearms. ·Training for his event included shooting targets on the ground, i.e. Execution style. ·The shooter conducted tactical magazine changes during lulls in his shooting event. ·Extra magazines and ammunition were placed in a central location so the shooter could reequip himself after he expended the ammunition/magazines he carried on this body. In closing, it is up to all of us who are involved in LE and LE training to prepare officers for the Active Shooter event. All officers from patrolman to chiefs need to be trained on a continuous basis. As this event showed even with highly trained and motivated officers it only takes minutes for a tragedy of massive proportions to take place. Timeline 0941 Shooting starts 10 KIA 6 W 0942 Disptatch notified, LE dispatched 9 KIA 10 W 0945 LE arrives 11 KIA 11 W 0951 LE makes entry 2 shots are heard (person was already dead) 0952 Cho dead Cho fired 113 9mm, 61 .22 and conducted 17 magazine changes. |