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Posted: 11/28/2017 3:59:51 PM EST
[#1]
33.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
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Posted: 11/28/2017 3:59:54 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL. Go back and read the thread carefully. Pay special attention to the folks who understand what pedmas actually means.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I give you 5 apples, take away 2, then give you 6 more. How many apples do you have? 5 - 2 + 6 = ? It's negative 3 if you got 10.233... for the original equation.  The math is right, the answer (assuming hypothetical numbers) is 10.23. In real life Apple talk, the logic doesn’t match the math but the answer is that you owe the guy three apples. I was adhering to the letter of the rule. With multiplication and division it is left to right. Same with addition and subtraction. So the answer is 33.23. 8 + 7 / 3 * 10 + 2 Steps: 8 + 2.3333 * 10 + 2 8 + 23.333 + 2 33.333 |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:00:14 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lose the apples, just consider the numbers and go addition before subtraction in the manner of a knucklehead who doesn't grasp that A and S are of equal priority. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I'm 100% on board with 33 1/3. I can see how disregarding the order of operations would get one to arrive at 52. I'm completely fucking lost on this apple thing. I can't find a method that arrives at -3. (5)+(6)=11 11-2...You get the idea. Edit: paleus and ceetee, got it, thanks. I could only see the "2" as "-2" and adding that to other combinations. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:03:32 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
10.23333333... |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:06:15 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's the best I can do: (5)+(6)=11 11-2...You get the idea. Edit: paleus and ceetee, got it, thanks. I could only see the "2" as "-2" and adding that to other combinations. I can't seem to do this incorrectly. You have 5 apples and 2 are taken away ( 5 - 2 ) You are then given 6 apples ( + 6 ) 5 - 2 + 6 Not 5 + 6 - 2 They both are the same outcome if done correctly, but that is what this thread is about. Following PEMDAS in that order, strictly, is incorrect. edit: posted prior to your edit |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:06:23 PM EST
[#6]
PEDMAS is (PE)(DM)(AS) with the bunched operations being performed left to right. Look it up anywhere.
PEDMAS was to help people remember the order of operation, not a strict mathematical fact on the order of operations. Teacher is a moron. Try inputting it into any calculator or program and get the whole number answer or the 10.... answer. you won't The apples analogy is perfect. Matched operations are done left to right. Implied parenthesis? wtf is that? |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:07:40 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
33.3 repeating |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:07:58 PM EST
[#8]
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:08:29 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10.23333333... 
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:09:14 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same here, order of operations and all.... |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:10:08 PM EST
[#11]
Quoted:
8 + 7 / 3 * 10 + 2 "eight plus seven divided by 3 times ten plus 2" No fractions, no parenthesis, etc. All in a straight line. What's your answer? Trying to prove something for my dear aunt sally... First operation is 7/3 which works out to 2.33333333333333 Know your order of operations. Answer is 33.3333333..... |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:11:29 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read the thread and you might understand why that is wrong.
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:14:37 PM EST
[#13]
2.5
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:16:56 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks all, appreciate the comments and the variety of answers. My kids were given a worksheet back where they were dinged for NOT getting 10.23 as an answer. 
. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:17:40 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep I was wrong. I was adhering to the letter of the rule. With multiplication and division it is left to right. Same with addition and subtraction. So the answer is 33.23. 8 + 7 / 3 * 10 + 2 Steps: 8 + 2.3333 * 10 + 2 8 + 23.333 + 2 33.333 
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:17:49 PM EST
[#16]
I say we change it for Common Core: Division, Exponents, Reciprocals, Parentheses, Imaginary numbers, and Tao.
ETA: Sigh, fixed capitalization |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:27:16 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I say we change it for Common Core: Division, Exponents, Reciprocals, Parentheses, Imaginary Numbers, and Tao. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:29:15 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't put up an equation and then say "Do it all in a line" because that is not how math works. There are rules. The answer is 33.3 repeating. Or 33 1/3 I he want's it all in a line he should write it correctly: ((8 + 7) / 3)*10 + 2 |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:29:32 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 
Multiplication and division are of equal standing, and processed left to right. Same thing for addition and subtraction. At least when I did my mathematics... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Multiplication and division are of equal standing, and processed left to right. Same thing for addition and subtraction. At least when I did my mathematics... Quoted:
33.3... Quoted:
33.333333333333333 Quoted:
33.3 repeating |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:29:41 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DERPint? |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:31:49 PM EST
[#21]
This thread proves why we have and use parenthesis.
Also, teacher is an idiot. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:33:45 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DERPIT. Because DERP is only 4 operations.
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:37:00 PM EST
[#23]
Quoted:
8 + 7 / 3 * 10 + 2 "eight plus seven divided by 3 times ten plus 2" No fractions, no parenthesis, etc. All in a straight line. What's your answer? Trying to prove something for my dear aunt sally... 30/7=4.2857143 4.2857143+8+2= 14.2857143 |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:39:43 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I give you great credit for acknowledging error. That's too rare these days.
I'm married. 
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:39:55 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3*10=30 30/7=4.2857143 4.2857143+8+2= 14.2857143 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
8 + 7 / 3 * 10 + 2 "eight plus seven divided by 3 times ten plus 2" No fractions, no parenthesis, etc. All in a straight line. What's your answer? Trying to prove something for my dear aunt sally... 30/7=4.2857143 4.2857143+8+2= 14.2857143 |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:42:28 PM EST
[#26]
100/3 = 33.33333333333333
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:42:56 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3*10=30 30/7=4.2857143 4.2857143+8+2= 14.2857143 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
8 + 7 / 3 * 10 + 2 "eight plus seven divided by 3 times ten plus 2" No fractions, no parenthesis, etc. All in a straight line. What's your answer? Trying to prove something for my dear aunt sally... 30/7=4.2857143 4.2857143+8+2= 14.2857143 |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:46:07 PM EST
[#28]
Oh I've got it. The answer is: FUCK MATH.
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:46:09 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3*10=30 30/7=4.2857143 4.2857143+8+2= 14.2857143 
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:49:07 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I've got it. The answer is: FUCK MATH. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 4:57:42 PM EST
[#31]
33.¯3
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:07:17 PM EST
[#32]
How was it *actually* written on the page?
Quoted:
8 + 7 / 3 * 10 + 2 Importantly, are we substituting the forward slash / for the obelus ÷ (this is alt246 if you care to do it yourself), and the asterisk * for the multiplication sign × (alt0215)? If we're using shorthand, and the problem should actually be written as: 8 + 7 ÷ 3 × 10 + 2 = 33 1/3 If we're not using computer shorthand, then the answer remains the same, but for a different reason. The fraction of 7/3 is one term in the 'math sentence.' The way I've written it above is the correct, clear way to do it, but you have to use ASCII characters not on the standard keyboard. In any case, depending upon what's actually shown as the original problem will determine whether it's syntactically correct or not. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:09:40 PM EST
[#33]
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:23:36 PM EST
[#34]
Straightforward order-of-operations problem. Replace 7/3 with 7 * (1/3), an equivalent expression, and it becomes clear.
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:34:33 PM EST
[#35]
all on 1 line. 100/3 is the official exact answer, but 33.333333 is close enough. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:37:58 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://image.ibb.co/kcjF7m/Screenshot_2017_11_28_14_20_51.jpg all on 1 line. 100/3 is the official exact answer, but 33.333333 is close enough.
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:40:47 PM EST
[#37]
100/3
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:43:13 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I guess I didn't quite mean that. I meant "it's all typed printed in a straight line, with no fractions, parenthesis, etc.". It should be worked more or less like this. (Note that I am deliberately emphasizing the steps and the effect that they have on the problem for demonstration purposes.) [For convenience I did apply rounding when I worked the division, as noted.] 
One of the common problems is that people try to apply (and teach) the PEMDAS mnemonic device too rigidly. When I have provided math instruction in the past (e.g. in a SPED resource capacity and more recently during SPED/ESY instruction), I have adapted the visual to remind that multiplication or division and addition or subtraction are completed as they appear. E.g. I avoided writing PEMDAS anywhere near my board. I would instead keep the following on my board: P E M or D A or S (I also utilized a visual format using appropriate math symbols) (I would also provide students with appropriate instruction, and follow-up, to emphasize that multiplication/division (completed after exponents and before addition/subtraction) and addition/subtraction (done after the other operations) are done as they appear from left to right. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:43:21 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10.23333333... By MDAS, (No P and no E) so, 3*10=30 7/30=.23333R 8+.2333+2=10.2333R |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:44:45 PM EST
[#40]
There can not be opinions or shades of grey in math. Any two people who have a math problem to solve must arrive at the same result given the same problem.
Imagine trying to design anything as part of a team when the whole team needs to do math. One engineer does the equation left to right, the other follows PEDMAS/Algebraic Order, a third uses reverse polish notation, and the result explodes before you can launch it. Math as a skill has absolutely no room for opinions or differing methods of approaching a problem that result in different answers. It's an exact science. Not an interpretive dance. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:45:29 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the correct answer. By MDAS, (No P and no E) so, 3*10=30 7/30=.23333R 8+.2333+2=10.2333R Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
10.23333333... By MDAS, (No P and no E) so, 3*10=30 7/30=.23333R 8+.2333+2=10.2333R |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:47:05 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get that teacher fired - they have no business "teaching" math and they are screwing up their students. Many teachers lose the answer key or feel they "know" the answer and grade incorrectly. Sometimes it's a para or aide who does the grading and the teacher may not know, but that depends on the district. My wife has seen this firsthand with other teachers and paras; especially in math, English and spelling homework. Teachers don't have as much oversight as you'd think. Learning the wrong thing especially with math or language at an early age sticks with you and is hard to break (need lots of correct repetition, Saxon ftw!). These kids need to be taught correctly now so it can be repeated and become second nature. If not, they will learn and use the correct method eventually and most of the time, but in times of stress or in times of doubt they'll likely use the wrong method and that could have consequences in future tests, grades and jobs. EDIT: Wikipedia agrees and states that people often confuse PEMDAS as a rule: Order_of_operations |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:49:40 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3*10=30 30/7=4.2857143 4.2857143+8+2= 14.2857143 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
8 + 7 / 3 * 10 + 2 "eight plus seven divided by 3 times ten plus 2" No fractions, no parenthesis, etc. All in a straight line. What's your answer? Trying to prove something for my dear aunt sally... 30/7=4.2857143 4.2857143+8+2= 14.2857143 
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:52:20 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the correct answer. By MDAS, (No P and no E) so, 3*10=30 7/30=.23333R 8+.2333+2=10.2333R |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:52:23 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the update OP. Not sure if the teacher needs to be fired, but at the very least she needs to be made aware of her error. If she persists, bring it up to someone higher at the school. A 'talking to' and the teacher will probably forget and slide back into doing it next year. If they're fired they will remember it. This is really basic stuff - if they are getting this wrong, what else are they teaching wrong? |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:55:39 PM EST
[#46]
To give you an idea of the visuals that I have used to remind students of the order of operations, since my typed formatting didn't present as well as I hoped:
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Posted: 11/28/2017 5:59:46 PM EST
[#47]
I understand all the BS about order of operations, but these things would make a lot more sense if we provided context and word problems. To be "good" at this you have to memorize arbitrary conventions. We should use parentheses always--even when they aren't "required," and spend the time we save teaching kids calculus. It's no wonder American students learn to "hate math."
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Posted: 11/28/2017 6:00:22 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread proves why we have and use parenthesis. Also, teacher is an idiot. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 6:07:45 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand all the BS about order of operations, but these things would make a lot more sense if we provided context and word problems. To be "good" at this you have to memorize arbitrary conventions. We should use parentheses always--even when they aren't "required," and spend the time we save teaching kids calculus. It's no wonder American students learn to "hate math." |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 6:09:40 PM EST
[#50]
Pemdas bitches
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