Posted: 2/11/2007 3:58:08 PM EDT
| i have been wondering what are people being issued in the service. probably a dumb question (there are no dumb questions just dumb people). i always assumed it was the M16 but every military brochure i have ever read has said that M4's are being issued. Clarical question just wondering |
| the M16A2 is being replaced by the M16A4 and M4 carbine. My unit just turned our M16A4's in last month to get M4's this month. Enhanced Guard brigade. A heavy (formerly armor) brigade combat team. So I guess that even mech infantry are going with teh M4 instead of the M16A4 as what used to be issued. |
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We had weapons fall from the skies. Ordinarily it's supposed to be just four M9s per tank, and one M16. We went with four M9s, two M4s, two M16A2s, one M249, a shotgun, and somewhere along the line there was an M21. They offered us bayonets, but frankly, we thought it was approaching overkill. We weren't entirely sure where to put everything on the tank anyway. We had the 249 tied between the loader's and TC's hatches, my M4 was next to my .50 cal... Talk about redundancy. "Oh, crap! The 120mm gun is down, the .50 cal is down, the two 7.62mm machineguns are down, the M249 is down, my rifle is down... All I've got left is three magazines of 9mm, and two tracks. Should have taken the bayonet" NTM |
is that just a NG SOP? ive been in two AD armor units where the standard was 4 M9's, and 2 M16a4's and 2 M4's per tank. driver and gunner get the M16's. all weapons had m68's (aimpoints). thats exactly the setup weve had, but we are deploying in a few weeks and got all new m4's, all with optics (mix of acogs, eotechs and 68's). plus we got shotguns, flex 50's, M14's, a couple M24's, and a bunch of PAS13's as well. we also have two m203/M4's per platoon. im in an infantry BN and we are about 50/50 mounted vs dismounted. half of that mounted percentage is on humvees. its about time we got some new stuff. when we get to our AO we will also have the chance do what you guys did, and pick up stuff from a parent division if we have one. the infantry guys in the next company my platoon are attached to set it up by squads. generally two automatic riflemen per squad (249's and paras), one SDMR with an SDM A4 setup with ACOG, Bipod, and heavy barrel, one or two grenadiers with M4/203's, one machine gunner (M240), and the rest with M4's/M16A4's. HHC is where the cool stuff is for the scout and sniper platoons. they have all of the above plus barretts, M21's, M24's, and the new KAC rifle. for our support units its generally a mix of m16a2's with a few A4's and M4's thrown in usually for the leadership. sometimes they have 68's but not usually. for most units its usually a question of MOS first, and when you are deploying second. a lot of units get all this cool stuff for RFI right before they go, only to leave it all for the incoming unit when they head home. |
NG TOEs are set by the Dept of the Army, and match Regular Army with the exception sometimes of the 'quality' of equipment. eg. SINCGARS E instead of SINCGARS F or 5-tons vice FMTVs.
Ack. I must be getting old. Perhaps I should have said that 'until recently, the standard small arms assignment.' As recently as mid-2004, Armor Magazine was running articles saying that it was about time that every tanker was equipped with a long-arm inaddition to his pistol. The reason that tankers were reported to be using MP-5s during OIF-1 was because they did not have rifles/carbines of their own, so they grabbed what they could. Since we mobilised in late 2003, we were configured under the then-current system, and when all the M4s and M16s showed up, they really were just falling from the skies from the point of view of tankers as, for as long as we had been tankers, we weren't supposed to have them, and the TOE didn't have them either. Ask your TC what the small arms authorisation was on his tank before OIF and the days of tankers pretending to be Infantry/Dragoons. (Better yet, find a really old one and ask him about the M3 Grease Guns..) I just opened up my property book, and sure enough, it shows an authorised strength of 35 M4 carbines, so it seems that the TOE has indeed officially changed. (Though we haven't received the weapons yet: After we got back, we donated all our M4s to other units on their way over) NTM |
I'm not that old....  Manic is correct, back in the day's of the J series and L series MTOE, A tank crew had 4 1911A1's (that's right) and 2 M3/A1 grease guns for the driver and loader. Later the MTOE switched to M9's and 2 M16's (Driver and loader again) when we switched from M60 series to M1 series. Plus you find some interesting weapons in NG Armories that collect over the years. We had M3 and M3A1 grease guns and Savage and Winchester Riot Shotguns. And When a Guard unit deploys.. they can take what ever is in that Arms room. Keep in mind that Tankers have been training for years for Fulda Gap /Desert storm type missions for many years... Now that we have been in a Urban MOUT war for a few years, lessons are being relearned (sadly it is always that way) Re introduction of Field phones on Tanks, Gun shields, etc to meet the ever changing threat. Back in the day, we use to joke about if we had to bail from our tank we would grab the M240 COAX, a pair of Asbestos's mitts and two boxes of ammo... Years latter that became written doctrine.....
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We're Guard Mech Inf. and we just got all new M16A4's like 8-12mos before we deployed to Iraq. The job we did, you were supposed to have M4s for mobility/compactness but somewhere along the lines our advance party pissed off the guys we replaced and some paperwork "got lost"..... 
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I got issued a beat up M9 and a slabside lower/A2 upper frankenshitpile for a long gun. Good thing I won't be using it much, and my M9 does have a nice bore. Chair force fobbit here, I would be more likely to use my weapon to beat a dumbass student senseless than to shoot somebody. 
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| do the army have a different doctrine when issueing gear? in the marines, pistols are given to crew served weapons and staff NCOS/officers. when the war frist broke out every one want to bring there own weapon and for a while, this looked like a real possiblity. so every swinging dick went bought out all the pisols in town, but because of the amount of people submitting request the co denied all except staff NCOS and officers. I know over in 8th marines the co apporved most weapons, depending on need/want. has the army done anyting like this? |
Not in the last 15 years or so, so I'm told. I saw one guy with his own sidearm in Iraq, it was a topkick with a 1911. Not too extravagant, and the parts are in the system. Upon inquiring, it was an unauthorised sidearm, so no, I am not aware of anyone who was allowed bring their own weapon along. NTM |
Saw one guy with an M4 stock on a regular 20" A2/A4 on the way to the gym one day..... That shit definitely was modded. |
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I'm aircrew... and aside from the M9 which is standard fare for aircrew (on my own thigh drop holster of course... too much of a pain in the ass to use the chest harness cross-draw holster on top of my flack jacket) I had a Benelli 12 guage semi-auto shotgun for defense of the aircraft, in addition to an A2. The long weapons for the entire crew were put in a box on the aircraft, carried off individually when the mission was done. Now I'm just waiting for those 12 ga explosive rounds from the marine corps weapons lab.
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| When in OIF III I was issued my mtoe weapon an m9. then when the unit got issued m4's to replace the m16a4's that were new 6 months prior to deployment, we had spare rifles to give all those only mtoe'd pistols. we also had m14DMR's shotguns (moss 500) no personal weapons or captured weapons allowed for use. They let me modify my A4 to my liking with a raail system and telestock . I understand it is now against the rules to modify the weapons outside of reg. |
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In 04 I was issued the Seabee standard, an M16-A2E3, the last issued full-auto variant. This coming deployment I'm hoping for an M4. Once over there I bummed a Sig 9mm from a nearby SEAL team since I was in and out of vehicles all day and was lucky enough to be attached to CJSOTF. |
I carried an M16A2 and a G19 I acquired there. This was not the norm though (the G19). I was in a position where I could "get away" with that. The old rule applies: the farther away from the flag pole you are, the more you can do. For example, if you are based on Victory, Liberty, or Slayer--standard issue. If you are at a COP, you can probably have more . . . . |