Posted: 6/10/2010 3:54:09 AM EDT
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The fresnel lens thread got me thinking about solar thermal, and the idea of a small flash boiler, a turbine and an alternator seems pretty cool. It seems really cool if you throw in a big fresnel and reflectors to power the boiler.
Any steam buffs here? |
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Steam engines had a bad habit of exploding. Sir, FWIW steam engines rarely if ever explode! The component of the steam cycle most likely to "explode" is the part that generates the steam, ie: the boiler, in a conventionally fired plant. The main propulsion systems of almost all of the US Navy's Nuclear powered aircraft carriers and submarines are steam engine propelled and many of the larger ships are also steam propelled. Both conventionally fired and nuclear PWR steam plants are some of the most efficient forms of power generation that are presently operated on this planet. While Solar energy continues to make advances on large scales the technology still lacks. JMHO, 7zero1. |
portal gun in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if3Qv2tHyfA |
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Went to school for power generation technology and have worked in powerplants the last 5 years. Ya I know my way around steam, turbines and generators. I'm wondering how much power you could pull out of the right kind of setup concentrating solar thermal into a flash boiler and running a turbine generator off of it. Sized right, you could have a sun powered alternator or generator. I'm thinking for off-grid use, where it would charge your batteries while you were away, etc. Just kicking ideas around, but I don't have the knowledge of how much steam you need to do useful work at various pressures/temperatures. Got a steep learning curve... |
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Went to school for power generation technology and have worked in powerplants the last 5 years. Ya I know my way around steam, turbines and generators. I'm wondering how much power you could pull out of the right kind of setup concentrating solar thermal into a flash boiler and running a turbine generator off of it. Sized right, you could have a sun powered alternator or generator. I'm thinking for off-grid use, where it would charge your batteries while you were away, etc. Just kicking ideas around, but I don't have the knowledge of how much steam you need to do useful work at various pressures/temperatures. Got a steep learning curve... You would be better using iso pentane or butane in a organic rankine cycle. |
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Went to school for power generation technology and have worked in powerplants the last 5 years. Ya I know my way around steam, turbines and generators. I'm wondering how much power you could pull out of the right kind of setup concentrating solar thermal into a flash boiler and running a turbine generator off of it. Sized right, you could have a sun powered alternator or generator. I'm thinking for off-grid use, where it would charge your batteries while you were away, etc. Just kicking ideas around, but I don't have the knowledge of how much steam you need to do useful work at various pressures/temperatures. Got a steep learning curve... You would be better using iso pentane or butane in a organic rankine cycle. In general the main issue with solar powered steam type engines tends to be the issue of getting enough energy to heat the working fluid enough. In general you need a fairly large solar concentrator to do anything really useful. The idea is not new, I saw an article from the 1800's talking about a solar powered steam engine, but the inventor kept the actual solar concentrator design a big secret, but the overal engine he had was fairly small, and I'm guessing the concentor had to be rather huge to run it. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Went to school for power generation technology and have worked in powerplants the last 5 years. Ya I know my way around steam, turbines and generators. I'm wondering how much power you could pull out of the right kind of setup concentrating solar thermal into a flash boiler and running a turbine generator off of it. Sized right, you could have a sun powered alternator or generator. I'm thinking for off-grid use, where it would charge your batteries while you were away, etc. Just kicking ideas around, but I don't have the knowledge of how much steam you need to do useful work at various pressures/temperatures. Got a steep learning curve... You would be better using iso pentane or butane in a organic rankine cycle. In general the main issue with solar powered steam type engines tends to be the issue of getting enough energy to heat the working fluid enough. In general you need a fairly large solar concentrator to do anything really useful. The idea is not new, I saw an article from the 1800's talking about a solar powered steam engine, but the inventor kept the actual solar concentrator design a big secret, but the overal engine he had was fairly small, and I'm guessing the concentor had to be rather huge to run it. It's an issue with most solar designs. Do you expend startup capital and energy on a sun-tracking system, or eat the decreased efficiency due to non-optimal alignment? IIRC, there are some linear parabolic mirror arrays that are non-tracking (simple and cheap) and do a decent job efficiency-wise. |
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Went to school for power generation technology and have worked in powerplants the last 5 years. Ya I know my way around steam, turbines and generators. I'm wondering how much power you could pull out of the right kind of setup concentrating solar thermal into a flash boiler and running a turbine generator off of it. Sized right, you could have a sun powered alternator or generator. I'm thinking for off-grid use, where it would charge your batteries while you were away, etc. Just kicking ideas around, but I don't have the knowledge of how much steam you need to do useful work at various pressures/temperatures. Got a steep learning curve... You would be better using iso pentane or butane in a organic rankine cycle. In general the main issue with solar powered steam type engines tends to be the issue of getting enough energy to heat the working fluid enough. In general you need a fairly large solar concentrator to do anything really useful. The idea is not new, I saw an article from the 1800's talking about a solar powered steam engine, but the inventor kept the actual solar concentrator design a big secret, but the overal engine he had was fairly small, and I'm guessing the concentor had to be rather huge to run it. It's an issue with most solar designs. Do you expend startup capital and energy on a sun-tracking system, or eat the decreased efficiency due to non-optimal alignment? IIRC, there are some linear parabolic mirror arrays that are non-tracking (simple and cheap) and do a decent job efficiency-wise. The the solar trough works somewhat well, as do large concentrator designs. My point for the OP was that some "home generator" system would likely not be a very good choice. Also, for the detractors of steam, there were steam powered cars in the 20's and 30's that worked quite well. And I think the current land speed records for steam powered vehicles are above 100mph... So its certainly a viable propulsion technology, I just don't know what the actual fuel efficiencies are compared to gas/diesel vehicles. |
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Went to school for power generation technology and have worked in powerplants the last 5 years. Ya I know my way around steam, turbines and generators. I'm wondering how much power you could pull out of the right kind of setup concentrating solar thermal into a flash boiler and running a turbine generator off of it. Sized right, you could have a sun powered alternator or generator. I'm thinking for off-grid use, where it would charge your batteries while you were away, etc. Just kicking ideas around, but I don't have the knowledge of how much steam you need to do useful work at various pressures/temperatures. Got a steep learning curve... You would be better using iso pentane or butane in a organic rankine cycle. In general the main issue with solar powered steam type engines tends to be the issue of getting enough energy to heat the working fluid enough. In general you need a fairly large solar concentrator to do anything really useful. The idea is not new, I saw an article from the 1800's talking about a solar powered steam engine, but the inventor kept the actual solar concentrator design a big secret, but the overal engine he had was fairly small, and I'm guessing the concentor had to be rather huge to run it. It's an issue with most solar designs. Do you expend startup capital and energy on a sun-tracking system, or eat the decreased efficiency due to non-optimal alignment? IIRC, there are some linear parabolic mirror arrays that are non-tracking (simple and cheap) and do a decent job efficiency-wise. The the solar trough works somewhat well, as do large concentrator designs. My point for the OP was that some "home generator" system would likely not be a very good choice. Also, for the detractors of steam, there were steam powered cars in the 20's and 30's that worked quite well. And I think the current land speed records for steam powered vehicles are above 100mph... So its certainly a viable propulsion technology, I just don't know what the actual fuel efficiencies are compared to gas/diesel vehicles. I"m just amazed at how much heat I can direct with my 11" diameter Fresnel, and how hot you can get the focal spot. It's like a blow torch. For a small setup, you wouldn't need that many square feet to make a good bit of steam. Granted, I'm in southern Iraq, in June, so we get a LOT of sun. 
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