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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:20:34 PM EST
[#1]
When I started carrying, I was so paranoid about printing and someone might see me carrying. Well, 99.9% of people are either clueless or simply don't go around constantly looking at bumps in people shirts looking for evidence of guns. Cops might, but your average person doesn't.
Now, I just don't care. If there's a shirt over it, it's concealed. Done. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:49:16 PM EST
[#2]
Cause the internet......
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:57:18 PM EST
[#3]
There are numerous environments where, while not illegal, it would be frowned upon to be carrying a weapon.
Some of those environments could cost me income were it to become known. So yeah, an obvious pistol grip, covered or not, just doesn't fly in all situations. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 7:04:10 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I started carrying, I was so paranoid about printing and someone might see me carrying. Well, 99.9% of people are either clueless or simply don't go around constantly looking at bumps in people shirts looking for evidence of guns. Cops might, but your average person doesn't. Now, I just don't care. If there's a shirt over it, it's concealed. Done. +1 |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 7:38:29 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are numerous environments where, while not illegal, it would be frowned upon to be carrying a weapon. Some of those environments could cost me income were it to become known. So yeah, an obvious pistol grip, covered or not, just doesn't fly in all situations. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 8:02:37 PM EST
[#6]
Libtard soccer moms.
That's about it, haha. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 10:14:28 PM EST
[#7]
If you have a good holster and belt you shouldn't worry. The gun is never going to be completely invisible in all positions you may find yourself in during the day. If you purposely wear a cannon with a compression shirt well then your knowingly inviting problems
ymmv. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 10:32:24 PM EST
[#8]
One of my students is absolutely TORE UP over printing. He's obsessed with not printing to the point that it's getting ridiculous.
I don't get it. He's also obsessed with having a manual safety. ETA - He lives here in TN where open carry is totally legal and he's self employed. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 11:15:09 PM EST
[#9]
I think I've heard that Florida has rules/laws against it. Yeah found this:
"The term "ordinary sight of another person" means the casual and ordinary observation of another in the normal associations of life. Ordinary observation by a person other than a police officer..." ... "The critical question turns on whether an individual, standing near a person with a firearm or beside a vehicle in which a person with a firearm is seated, may by ordinary observation know the questioned object to be a firearm. The ultimate decision must rest upon the trier of fact under the circumstances of each case." Ensor v. State 1981 "The officer observed a bulge in the suspect's waistband, which, from his training and experience, he believed was the butt of a pistol or handgun." ... "The gun in question was tucked in Regalado's waistband and covered by his shirt. Openly carrying a weapon is the opposite of carrying a concealed weapon, which is defined as to be "in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person." Regalado v. State 2009 Being from NC myself I think concealed is concealed here, no printing issues embedded within the law. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 11:20:20 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I've heard that Florida has rules/laws against it. Yeah found this: "The term "ordinary sight of another person" means the casual and ordinary observation of another in the normal associations of life. Ordinary observation by a person other than a police officer..." ... "The critical question turns on whether an individual, standing near a person with a firearm or beside a vehicle in which a person with a firearm is seated, may by ordinary observation know the questioned object to be a firearm. The ultimate decision must rest upon the trier of fact under the circumstances of each case." Ensor v. State 1981 "The officer observed a bulge in the suspect's waistband, which, from his training and experience, he believed was the butt of a pistol or handgun." ... "The gun in question was tucked in Regalado's waistband and covered by his shirt. Openly carrying a weapon is the opposite of carrying a concealed weapon, which is defined as to be "in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person." Regalado v. State 2009 Being from NC myself I think concealed is concealed here, no printing issues embedded within the law. Solid first post, brofessor. 
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Posted: 1/19/2016 11:34:19 PM EST
[#11]
I don't. I can see how some from states with crappy gun laws or hoplophobe soccer moms might.
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Posted: 1/19/2016 11:45:48 PM EST
[#12]
Quoted:
Why do people worry about printing? Some of us don't dress like complete slobs all the time. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 1:59:37 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of us don't dress like complete slobs all the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why do people worry about printing? Some of us don't dress like complete slobs all the time. Last time this was mentioned by me, someone tried to ostracize me. That one gun to do it all falls on deaf ears to me, as it's obvious there isn't one for EDC, which is why I have options for the clothes I wear and the seasons. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 3:43:28 AM EST
[#14]
Some places don't look kindly on carrying firearms. Legal or not, being discovered would cause a whole heap of trouble, some of it potentially life-changing.
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Posted: 1/20/2016 6:26:34 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you have a good holster and belt you shouldn't worry. The gun is never going to be completely invisible in all positions you may find yourself in during the day. If you purposely wear a cannon with a compression shirt well then your knowingly inviting problems ymmv. What problems are you inviting? |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 6:29:10 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some places don't look kindly on carrying firearms. Legal or not, being discovered would cause a whole heap of trouble, some of it potentially life-changing. Such as? |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:16:57 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Solid first post, brofessor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think I've heard that Florida has rules/laws against it. Yeah found this: "The term "ordinary sight of another person" means the casual and ordinary observation of another in the normal associations of life. Ordinary observation by a person other than a police officer..." ... "The critical question turns on whether an individual, standing near a person with a firearm or beside a vehicle in which a person with a firearm is seated, may by ordinary observation know the questioned object to be a firearm. The ultimate decision must rest upon the trier of fact under the circumstances of each case." Ensor v. State 1981 "The officer observed a bulge in the suspect's waistband, which, from his training and experience, he believed was the butt of a pistol or handgun." ... "The gun in question was tucked in Regalado's waistband and covered by his shirt. Openly carrying a weapon is the opposite of carrying a concealed weapon, which is defined as to be "in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person." Regalado v. State 2009 Being from NC myself I think concealed is concealed here, no printing issues embedded within the law. Solid first post, brofessor. I like your style, first post and hard hitting and indisputable. What part of NC? |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:20:31 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Such as? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some places don't look kindly on carrying firearms. Legal or not, being discovered would cause a whole heap of trouble, some of it potentially life-changing. Such as? You've asked this twice, so I'm only quoting one. (I hate trying to double quote!)
First thought is MWAG calls, while not really life changing, certainly avoidable and would prove to be a solid headache. And add in someone who likes to push the truth a bit, in NC could lead to going armed to the terror of the public allegations. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:21:48 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Such as? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some places don't look kindly on carrying firearms. Legal or not, being discovered would cause a whole heap of trouble, some of it potentially life-changing. Such as? some people's work some people's college/university |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:35:25 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
some people's work some people's college/university Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Some places don't look kindly on carrying firearms. Legal or not, being discovered would cause a whole heap of trouble, some of it potentially life-changing. Such as? some people's work some people's college/university Isn't it against the law to carry a firearm onto school property? |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:39:42 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't it against the law to carry a firearm onto school property? Not in South Dakota. Post K-12, of course. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:17:45 AM EST
[#22]
I might get fired.
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:39:39 AM EST
[#23]
You could end up being forced to blade at 45 degrees if you are fronted about your CCW.
Seriously tho. I am not extremely anal about printing but I do take the time to conceal my gun for the given situation. While you and I may be accustomed to always having a gun while living our everyday lives, there are still people out there who are not. While you are in your legal rights and all that stuff. It may be rare but... All it takes is the "there is a man in the store with a gun" call to your local PD or SO and you are now dealing with bullshit. I don't know about you but I don't want to be dealing with that bullshit. I don't want to stop what I am doing to explain to someone that I have my permit or I am a LEO. I just want to live my life. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:51:40 AM EST
[#24]
Quoted:
Why do people worry about printing? Because some people can't read my handwriting
But on the real though, I don't want people asking about my 17 round "insulin pump". |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:57:24 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Such as? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some places don't look kindly on carrying firearms. Legal or not, being discovered would cause a whole heap of trouble, some of it potentially life-changing. Such as? All of fucking California, just to get started. Put your brain in gear before your let the clutch out. Yeah, I carried there for over ten years. Printing is a big deal. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:17:09 AM EST
[#26]
I don't worry as much about printing since we got open carry in Texas but I still don't want anyone to know I'm carrying. I figure if anyone says anything I'll just tell them it's a colostomy bag and then ask them if they want to see it.
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:34:51 AM EST
[#27]
I will tell you of a story that I know of that while not a printing story could easily end up going the same route if some person sees you printing. A guy here locally got into a little jam when a gal called the police on him on the highway saying that he was flashing a gun at her while driving down the freeway. The guy happened to have his concealed carry permit and happened to have a gun BUT she said it was a stainless steel gun or black and the gun he was actually carrying when the police caught him was the opposite. He ended up going through a pretty hefty legal battle, was not aloud to set foot on the property of his employer and I'm sure many other bad things happened as a result. He ended up getting off but it took several months.
Even in the most gun friendly states there are evil anti-gunners that will call the cops on you if they see you carrying a gun, in fact anti gun groups are encouraging them to do just that. Are you prepared to defend yourself if that happens to you? Can you go several months without a paycheck, afford to pay shitloads of money to an attorney to defend yourself? Or is it easier to make a little effort to hide that you are carrying? |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:55:16 AM EST
[#28]
All these reasons are pretty far fetched. I was mainly talking about in public on your time off. Not if you are going to work or school.
So why do people worry about printing in public, such as shopping or pumping gas? |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 11:21:59 AM EST
[#29]
Quoted:
Why do people worry about printing? As long as you live in an open carry state or a state where failure to conceal isn't a problem, its a non-issue. Other than that, the only thing I can think of is an incredibly unfashionable bulge that is obnoxiously large, but small amounts of printing...who cares? Most people just have a fudd complex where they pretend they've "never been made wearing their rigs" (Probably by every salted cop and most others) just like their gun 'never has a single malfunction in its lifetime.' |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 3:52:56 PM EST
[#30]
Here in FL we are not really suppose to print. To me, its not worth the issue. I do my part and try and keep the printing down as much as possible. If I have to usea smaller, thinner gun that day, then so be it. Depending what I am wearing, that is what I will take that day. I am lucky enough to have a choice.
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Posted: 1/20/2016 4:30:59 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All these reasons are pretty far fetched. I was mainly talking about in public on your time off. Not if you are going to work or school. So why do people worry about printing in public, such as shopping or pumping gas? Work is obviously a no-no. If I'm off I don't care at all. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 5:53:40 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All these reasons are pretty far fetched. I was mainly talking about in public on your time off. Not if you are going to work or school. So why do people worry about printing in public, such as shopping or pumping gas? Well, you already had one guy point out a state where it's illegal. And a few other people point out that there can be social/work/getting the police involved implications in some circumstances. And you're still asking why people worry about it, so you've pretty clearly already made up your mind that no one should. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 7:35:41 PM EST
[#33]
Everyone has their own opinions and their own reasons for either caring or not caring about printing. I know when I first started carrying I was overly concerned about it, so much so that I just couldn't function well in public, always stressed out and nervous. Over time that feeling went away and I just don't worry about it anymore and I really barely notice that the gun is there. When you get that comfortable with carrying, then printing buy-and-large becomes less of a concern.
To some though, they may work in a sensitive environment or frequent areas where the leftists have a firm stronghold. The deal is this, if someone calls the cops on you, you're going to have a bad day, even if it's a short lived experience, it's still going to make for a bad day. If putting a tiny bit of care into your attire or how you move can prevent you from having a bad day, then why not? I will say that what will give you away faster then some minor printing is constantly adjusting your rig, touching it, or any other odd behavior because you're not comfortable. No one is looking at you individually because you have a bump under your shirt, but if you call attention to yourself, then someone will look. I have walked past guys open carrying and not even noticed simply because they were acting so "normal" whereas I've stood behind a guy at the checkout and knew he had a concealed handgun purely because of how he was fidgeting with his belt. So I'd say be more concerned with your movements/actions than with your shirt/pants. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 7:44:39 PM EST
[#34]
Thanks for asking. I actually went to State so spent a lot of time in Raleigh but now live in Greenville. You?
As far as the law re going to the terror of the people, I seem to remember case law showing if it was a holstered weapon it could not be enforced under this statute, in other words, if your firearm is holstered you could not be construed as and otherwise charged with going to the terror of the people. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:04:17 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I've heard that Florida has rules/laws against it. Yeah found this: "The term "ordinary sight of another person" means the casual and ordinary observation of another in the normal associations of life. Ordinary observation by a person other than a police officer..." ... "The critical question turns on whether an individual, standing near a person with a firearm or beside a vehicle in which a person with a firearm is seated, may by ordinary observation know the questioned object to be a firearm. The ultimate decision must rest upon the trier of fact under the circumstances of each case." Being from NC myself I think concealed is concealed here, no printing issues embedded within the law. This is mostly true. However, even as it's written, I don't care to test it out. Concealed is concealed. I try my best to hide it. From the open carry section for Florida, 790.053: It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:13:19 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All these reasons are pretty far fetched. I was mainly talking about in public on your time off. Not if you are going to work or school. So why do people worry about printing in public, such as shopping or pumping gas? Now that you've clarified a bit, outside of work, I don't give a fuck. Hell, sometimes I even open carry. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:07:14 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't it against the law to carry a firearm onto school property? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Some places don't look kindly on carrying firearms. Legal or not, being discovered would cause a whole heap of trouble, some of it potentially life-changing. Such as? some people's work some people's college/university Isn't it against the law to carry a firearm onto school property? not everywhere maybe we just don't want people to know we're carrying as well |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:15:18 PM EST
[#38]
Quoted:
Why do people worry about printing? Because the people I am concerned about tend to look for that sort of thing. |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 11:45:51 PM EST
[#39]
New York is concealed carry by permit only. I have restrictions on my permit (hunting, target, hiking, and camping, thank you New York) so if I'm doing something other than one of those, I have to make sure there's no printing. Once I get the restrictions lifted, as long as it's covered I won't worry to much.
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Posted: 1/21/2016 12:05:28 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I've heard that Florida has rules/laws against it. Yeah found this: "The term "ordinary sight of another person" means the casual and ordinary observation of another in the normal associations of life. Ordinary observation by a person other than a police officer..." ... "The critical question turns on whether an individual, standing near a person with a firearm or beside a vehicle in which a person with a firearm is seated, may by ordinary observation know the questioned object to be a firearm. The ultimate decision must rest upon the trier of fact under the circumstances of each case." Ensor v. State 1981 "The officer observed a bulge in the suspect's waistband, which, from his training and experience, he believed was the butt of a pistol or handgun." Note the difference between "knowing" and "believing". "The gun in question was tucked in Regalado's waistband and covered by his shirt. Openly carrying a weapon is the opposite of carrying a concealed weapon, which is defined as to be "in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person." Regalado v. State 2009. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I've heard that Florida has rules/laws against it. Yeah found this: "The term "ordinary sight of another person" means the casual and ordinary observation of another in the normal associations of life. Ordinary observation by a person other than a police officer..." ... "The critical question turns on whether an individual, standing near a person with a firearm or beside a vehicle in which a person with a firearm is seated, may by ordinary observation know the questioned object to be a firearm. The ultimate decision must rest upon the trier of fact under the circumstances of each case." Ensor v. State 1981 "The officer observed a bulge in the suspect's waistband, which, from his training and experience, he believed was the butt of a pistol or handgun." Note the difference between "knowing" and "believing". "The gun in question was tucked in Regalado's waistband and covered by his shirt. Openly carrying a weapon is the opposite of carrying a concealed weapon, which is defined as to be "in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person." Regalado v. State 2009. Wasn't Regalado v. State reversed? Yes, yes it was. We reverse. Because the issue was dispositive, we direct that appellant's conviction and sentence be vacated. "... In other words, the only information received by the officer was that the individual had a gun. Possession of a gun is not illegal in Florida. Even if it is concealed, it is not illegal if the carrier has obtained a concealed weapons permit. Although the officer observed a bulge in Regalado's waistband, which in his experience looked like a gun, no facts and circumstances were presented to show that Regalado's carrying of a concealed weapon was without a permit and thus illegal..." |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 12:07:47 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, you already had one guy point out a state where it's illegal. And a few other people point out that there can be social/work/getting the police involved implications in some circumstances. And you're still asking why people worry about it, so you've pretty clearly already made up your mind that no one should. Really? What state was that? What state code? What court opinion? |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 10:13:54 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What problems are you inviting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you have a good holster and belt you shouldn't worry. The gun is never going to be completely invisible in all positions you may find yourself in during the day. If you purposely wear a cannon with a compression shirt well then your knowingly inviting problems ymmv. What problems are you inviting? Ever see the video where a guy is paying for some gas and the thug standing in line behind him see his pistol printing? You guessed it, thug jumps him from behind and successfully unholsters his gun. How about the crazy liberal in the grocery store calling the cops cause some crazy guy has a gun in his pants! I try not to invite the man into my life, hence i keep my weapon in check and covered properly. One again YMMV....personal opinion. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 3:31:44 PM EST
[#43]
MO State ccw law used to say something about not printing, it was a no-no and could result in getting your permit revoked after 3 infractions. Funny thing was that only a judge could suspend/revoke a permit. So somehow the judge had to find out and unless you were charged with a crime he would never really know. And you would have to get caught somehow repeatedly.
I always worry about getting spotted and having some old woman start screaming "HE HAS A GUN" and freak out and make a huge deal at Walmart or some bullshit like that
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Posted: 1/21/2016 3:48:06 PM EST
[#44]
I try not to invite the man into my life, hence i keep my weapon in check and covered properly. If the man wants to come because I'm engaging in a lawful activity, and insists that I remain, let him; I can always use more money. Here in WA there is no requirement to conceal, it's merely another carry option that the CPL allows. The police cannot detain you for lawful activity; they cannot demand ID, they cannot force you to engage in a conversation on the topic of concealing. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 10:07:57 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Such as? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some places don't look kindly on carrying firearms. Legal or not, being discovered would cause a whole heap of trouble, some of it potentially life-changing. Such as? In Arizona it is legal to carry on a University Campus. However, it's almost always against University Policy, so if caught one could get expelled if a student. |
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Posted: 1/21/2016 11:59:17 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. Last time this was mentioned by me, someone tried to ostracize me. That one gun to do it all falls on deaf ears to me, as it's obvious there isn't one for EDC, which is why I have options for the clothes I wear and the seasons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Why do people worry about printing? Some of us don't dress like complete slobs all the time. Last time this was mentioned by me, someone tried to ostracize me. That one gun to do it all falls on deaf ears to me, as it's obvious there isn't one for EDC, which is why I have options for the clothes I wear and the seasons. Coming from the guy who says anyone who doesn't dress the way you do is a mouth breathing slob, this means a whole lot. |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 1:28:03 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Coming from the guy who says anyone who doesn't dress the way you do is a mouth breathing slob, this means a whole lot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Why do people worry about printing? Some of us don't dress like complete slobs all the time. Last time this was mentioned by me, someone tried to ostracize me. That one gun to do it all falls on deaf ears to me, as it's obvious there isn't one for EDC, which is why I have options for the clothes I wear and the seasons. Coming from the guy who says anyone who doesn't dress the way you do is a mouth breathing slob, this means a whole lot. Beware of those telling you you need to only have a strong holster and a good belt, and that dressing around a gun is foolish. Those guys don't have too much critical thinking when it comes to wearing the appropriate dress for professional work clothes, or taking an actual classy woman out that doesn't mouth breathe as much as they do, and you don't want to look like street trash or like a slouch. He very clearly DOES NOT say that anyone who doesn't dress like him is a slob. Do you think that anyone who doesn't dress around a service-sized handgun is a fool? |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 5:28:26 AM EST
[#48]
How about to not waste cops time. I've had a few calls of people "printing" while in a business and 911 was called cause it scared them.
I am not overly concerned with printing and nor should you but I think it's important to ensure that others don't notice it. As already stated in this thread, 99% of people won't notice slight printing so no big deal. And before someone asks... It was explained that no laws were broken and all parties were sent on their ways. And FWIW it was what I would describe as a shady looking individual but no laws were broken. Idiot carrying in a serpa with a hoody over it. Don't be like that guy, plus my lunch got cold and then I'm angry all shift. I carry a G30 off duty and I'm sure it prints every once in a while. J frame when I don't want to print. Long story short, there simply are situations where you don't want to print at all but most of the time a little printing is no big deal. Don't be like that guy and everyone is happy. |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 1:20:06 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for asking. I actually went to State so spent a lot of time in Raleigh but now live in Greenville. You? As far as the law re going to the terror of the people, I seem to remember case law showing if it was a holstered weapon it could not be enforced under this statute, in other words, if your firearm is holstered you could not be construed as and otherwise charged with going to the terror of the people. I'm near the airport, Morrisville area. Going armed/terror of public law is pretty concise, but any anti or just anyone who wants to make it hard can exaggerate a story just to make it a pain for someone armed. Any invitation for the man to come into my daily routine and make my day bad is a good reason to cut down all printing possible |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 8:38:32 PM EST
[#50]
Discretion is not over rated IMO.
I don't like to make people uncomfortable. I don't like unnecessary conversations with law enforcement. I don't want to be targeted to have my gun stolen (yes it happens). I don't like people paying any unnecessary attention to me. I do like the advantage of the element of surprise. I do like carrying even in non-permissive (but still legal) settings. I do like the idea that nobody knows I'm armed. YMMV. Cheers! -JC |
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