[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 1911 Perfection. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/1/2009 12:45:13 PM EDT
|
While perusing GunBroker I ran across an across this 1924 pre-war commercial Government Model.
This, to me, is the epitome of a what 1911 should be. Shame no one makes something like this today - mainly in reference to the finish, roll marks, and overall appearance. 
Additional photos can be seen at the auction here - Pre-War 1924 Colt 1911 |
|
Everyone tends to forget that labor was dirt cheap back then and the ONLY way to get a sweet finish like that is with lots of polishing before hot bluing. Do that today and you'd shut out 99% of the market on price alone. I won't even get into the fact that the craftsmen back then tended to have many years of experience doing finish work like this.
Beautiful gun and would be a great addition to a collection. FWIW, go look at the top tier of custom 1911 makers and you won't see any finishes [not even close] like that unless it's a special order and the customer is willing to pay top $$$ for it. That spent a long time at the buffing wheel which was run by an expert. |
|
Quoted:
Yes its a very nice Colt. If only people knew how well they used to make them compared to today.  I just got home from the Norton Art Gallery. THey have things there like a .45ACP Luger, etc. I looked at a few vintage 1911's, and was not impressed with the look of the fit. It just didn't look as well fit as a Wilson or Baer or anything. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes its a very nice Colt. If only people knew how well they used to make them compared to today. I just got home from the Norton Art Gallery. THey have things there like a .45ACP Luger, etc. I looked at a few vintage 1911's, and was not impressed with the look of the fit. It just didn't look as well fit as a Wilson or Baer or anything. Yes I would think after about 100 years of manking them, they could find some company to maybe do 1 or 2 improvements...lol |
|
Quoted:
Not having held one myself, I can't say for sure, but the pics that I've seen of Mr. Miller's work appear to be at that level or better. The reviews by his customers also seem to confirm this. Miller's work is quite impressive.......but when you ask his customers how much did they pay........I have never seen one admit the cost..........what's the big secret......certainly not national security.......... |
|
Quoted:
Not having held one myself, I can't say for sure, but the pics that I've seen of Mr. Miller's work appear to be at that level or better. The reviews by his customers also seem to confirm this. For sure the finish can be recreated - but I've yet to see any manufacturer or smith execute roll marks with that much class. USFA has tried, but overall I feel their products missed the mark. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes its a very nice Colt. If only people knew how well they used to make them compared to today. I just got home from the Norton Art Gallery. THey have things there like a .45ACP Luger, etc. I looked at a few vintage 1911's, and was not impressed with the look of the fit. It just didn't look as well fit as a Wilson or Baer or anything. I was referring to Colt today and most every production line 1911. Springfield, Kimber, Para etc. I will say that Wilson and Brown will do a bluing job that is better than the old Colts(I know blasphemy) but Brown adds $400 to the price of the standard matte blue and I dont know what Wilson upcharges. The guy I used to work for has two Colt National Matches from the early 50's and yes they were put together as well as a Wilson, Baer or Brown except them came standard with a beautiful bluing job. |
|
Bluing looks great, but it's really a half-assed finish, at best. Technology has given us some vastly superior finishes in the last couple decades. Between the ceramic coatings to the newer ones like ionbond and melonite, we're holding better weapons now than they did back then, imo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
People also need to realize that the bluing process used today is somewhat different then the processes they used over 80 years ago. Just saying you are "bluing" a firearm doesn't mean a whole lot when there are different methods to do it and all do not look exactly the same.
Take the early 1911s and the fire blue method used on the small parts, it is quite obvious even with a quick glance that it "looks" very much different then one put out nowadays. Even the Carbonia Bluing done on the recent Colt 1911 reissues [the original run] is different looking and had to be farmed out to be done. Colt caught some flak about the variations in color but in some ways it is almost a lost art and I doubt it was economically feasible to continue to do it on a large scale long term basis at the price point Colt wanted. Either way, the pic is a gorgous example of the weapon art of yesteryear. |
|
Quoted:
that looks wonderful Reminds me of this, My Grandfather carried this in World War One, I grew up shooting her, but she's a safe queen now.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/1911/1911pistols017.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/1911/1911pistols085.jpg nice! |
|
Quoted:
Bluing looks great, but it's really a half-assed finish, at best. Technology has given us some vastly superior finishes in the last couple decades. Between the ceramic coatings to the newer ones like ionbond and melonite, we're holding better weapons now than they did back then, imo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ????????? I guess some people dont "get it". Kind of like the guys who argue that the 1911 is not a relevant weapons platform today because it only holds 7 or 8 rounds |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bluing looks great, but it's really a half-assed finish, at best. Technology has given us some vastly superior finishes in the last couple decades. Between the ceramic coatings to the newer ones like ionbond and melonite, we're holding better weapons now than they did back then, imo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ????????? I guess some people dont "get it". Kind of like the guys who argue that the 1911 is not a relevant weapons platform today because it only holds 7 or 8 rounds I prefer good old fashion bluing too. |
|
Quoted: Bluing looks great, but it's really a half-assed finish, at best. Technology has given us some vastly superior finishes in the last couple decades. Between the ceramic coatings to the newer ones like ionbond and melonite, we're holding better weapons now than they did back then, imo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile  You really don't understand at all.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not having held one myself, I can't say for sure, but the pics that I've seen of Mr. Miller's work appear to be at that level or better. The reviews by his customers also seem to confirm this. Miller's work is quite impressive.......but when you ask his customers how much did they pay........I have never seen one admit the cost..........what's the big secret......certainly not national security.......... This. 
|
|
Quoted: I believe Bob has his rates posted but what I paid is not something I wish to share with you and the general public. However, I will give you copies of all three of his statements to me as soon as you send me details on all your savings, checking and cc accounts. Quoted: Not having held one myself, I can't say for sure, but the pics that I've seen of Mr. Miller's work appear to be at that level or better. The reviews by his customers also seem to confirm this. Miller's work is quite impressive.......but when you ask his customers how much did they pay........I have never seen one admit the cost..........what's the big secret......certainly not national security..........  (You should try actual sentences instead of multiple periods dividing thoughts as it makes your questions easier to read and not answer.
 ) |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not having held one myself, I can't say for sure, but the pics that I've seen of Mr. Miller's work appear to be at that level or better. The reviews by his customers also seem to confirm this. Miller's work is quite impressive.......but when you ask his customers how much did they pay........I have never seen one admit the cost..........what's the big secret......certainly not national security.......... Where do you get that? First, his prices are on his website. Secondly, I've not seen a thread like one you describe. Third, many people consider it to be "poor form" to start asking questions like that ("how much did that cost?", "How much do you earn?", "Who did you vote for?"). In many cases the appropriate answer could be "if you have to ask...", but in the case of Miller, mine cost $1500. |
|
That pistol is something that I would buy in a heartbeat for my collection. I'm a big fan of original and especially in the box stuff. I get this from my father along with my passion for Belgian made Browning Auto-5 shotguns. My first shotgun is a Belgian Auto 5, Sweet 16 with a vented rib and nice engravings. The bluing is about 95% and the stock is beautiful. I wish I knew where the original box was, that would make me happy beyond belief.
To have a Colt, that old, with the original paperwork, box, and in that condition - If I wasn't in school and had money in my pocket, I'd be doing some buying right now. I'd be offering trades, I would be doing just about anything besides begging or degrading actions to get that pistol...just now isn't the time and I hope I run across something like this after my schooling is over. I may have an engagement ring to buy here coming up shortly too, so that's another cost I'm trying to budget for. I really appreciate people bringing my work into this thread as part of the discussion. That is an honor to be mentioned by people I recognize as customers and people that I haven't done work for. As far as my pricing, I do have many items listed on my website for people visiting to be able to do some comparison shopping and get an idea to which a build or rebuild may cost. The best way to figure out what a particular build or rebuild would cost is to contact me personally and I can work up a quote. I do ask my customers that pricing is exclusive and to try and not discuss the costs. The reason being: I offer discounts for Military and LE, and people talking about pricing can cause problems where one person may receive a discount where others may not qualify....and since I'm not a paying advertiser on these forums, pricing and solicitation of work is not permitted. This is another reason why I am no longer posting pictures of my work (though customers or enthusiasts of my shop can), updates on options or services I am offering, and pricing related to my shop. I do like to participate on these forums, but I'm here to be an active part of the discussions and whenever I can answer questions and such. I would like to offer my thoughts, opinions and pass along information that might be helpful to the other patrons of these forums when applicable. Take care and I'm sorry to have sidetracked the thread, back to the Colt. Bob |
|
Quoted:
That pistol is something that I would buy in a heartbeat for my collection. I'm a big fan of original and especially in the box stuff. I get this from my father along with my passion for Belgian made Browning Auto-5 shotguns. Totally agree, I sold off all my 12 gauge auto shotguns except my Belgium Browning. Now I want to pick up some Mk2 belgium Browning Hi-Powers, those things are equally beautiful pieces, and I will only get a blued model. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
That pistol is something that I would buy in a heartbeat for my collection. I'm a big fan of original and especially in the box stuff. I get this from my father along with my passion for Belgian made Browning Auto-5 shotguns. Totally agree, I sold off all my 12 gauge auto shotguns except my Belgium Browning. Now I want to pick up some Mk2 belgium Browning Hi-Powers, those things are equally beautiful pieces, and I will only get a blued model. Pfft, try recovering from a Superposed addiction. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bluing looks great, but it's really a half-assed finish, at best. Technology has given us some vastly superior finishes in the last couple decades. Between the ceramic coatings to the newer ones like ionbond and melonite, we're holding better weapons now than they did back then, imo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ????????? I guess some people dont "get it". Kind of like the guys who argue that the 1911 is not a relevant weapons platform today because it only holds 7 or 8 rounds I prefer good old fashion bluing too. Quoted:
You really don't understand at all. I understand the history of blued weapons and I wholeheartedly believe that the particular Colt this thread is about is an absolutely beautiful example of manufacturing of a bygone era. But bluing sucks as a finish. Anything that I have to worry about wiping all the fingerprints off it for fear of rust the next time it's handled is piss poor. I love how it looks, but that's it. Parkerizing is leaps and bounds better. Melonite and IonBond, even more-so. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bluing looks great, but it's really a half-assed finish, at best. Technology has given us some vastly superior finishes in the last couple decades. Between the ceramic coatings to the newer ones like ionbond and melonite, we're holding better weapons now than they did back then, imo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ????????? I guess some people dont "get it". Kind of like the guys who argue that the 1911 is not a relevant weapons platform today because it only holds 7 or 8 rounds I prefer good old fashion bluing too. Quoted:
You really don't understand at all. I understand the history of blued weapons and I wholeheartedly believe that the particular Colt this thread is about is an absolutely beautiful example of manufacturing of a bygone era. But bluing sucks as a finish. Anything that I have to worry about wiping all the fingerprints off it for fear of rust the next time it's handled is piss poor. I love how it looks, but that's it. Parkerizing is leaps and bounds better. Melonite and IonBond, even more-so. I've seen some of the new wizz bang finishes flake off, chip off and peel so like everything else, you have to see if it passes the test of time. It's amazing tho that firearms that are close to a century old can still be in nice shape after being merely blued. All it took was a little time and care on the part of the owner. And FWIW, NONE of the new finishes have the asthetic value of old timey bluing. Even when they have some wear, blued firearms just look better then some chipped up finish of today. In the end tho, the old time bluing was killed by time, cost and environmental reasons. It was something that simply COULDN'T be rushed and still gotten right. Yeah, I have SS and coated newer firearms but I STILL gravitate to THIS when I want to see gun art.  [/img]
And to think, after around 90 years that shitty bluing is still mostly there.
|
|
Quoted: It went right over your head. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bluing looks great, but it's really a half-assed finish, at best. Technology has given us some vastly superior finishes in the last couple decades. Between the ceramic coatings to the newer ones like ionbond and melonite, we're holding better weapons now than they did back then, imo. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ????????? I guess some people dont "get it". Kind of like the guys who argue that the 1911 is not a relevant weapons platform today because it only holds 7 or 8 rounds I prefer good old fashion bluing too. Quoted: You really don't understand at all. I understand the history of blued weapons and I wholeheartedly believe that the particular Colt this thread is about is an absolutely beautiful example of manufacturing of a bygone era. But bluing sucks as a finish. Anything that I have to worry about wiping all the fingerprints off it for fear of rust the next time it's handled is piss poor. I love how it looks, but that's it. Parkerizing is leaps and bounds better. Melonite and IonBond, even more-so.  |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice base gun for a custom. You know I'm kidding right? Scared me for a second there!  Nah... no need to be scared or joke... it's a nicely preserved pistol but I wouldn't think twice or hesitate for one second to turn that gun in to a one of a kind custom.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That pistol is something that I would buy in a heartbeat for my collection. I'm a big fan of original and especially in the box stuff. I get this from my father along with my passion for Belgian made Browning Auto-5 shotguns. Totally agree, I sold off all my 12 gauge auto shotguns except my Belgium Browning. Now I want to pick up some Mk2 belgium Browning Hi-Powers, those things are equally beautiful pieces, and I will only get a blued model. Pfft, try recovering from a Superposed addiction. Pfft, try recovering from a magnum length Mauser addiction.
|
|
Quoted:
Tag for later. I'm going to post up some pictures from the Connecticut State History Museam's Colt Collection. You guy's want to see 1911 SN 1? Yeah, it is a lost art. OP Congrats! You got a keeper! Shoot it, love it, and keep it in the family.  Oh I was just sharing the pics - only wish I had the cash to throw around on that sort of thing! |
|
Quoted:
Tag for later. I'm going to post up some pictures from the Connecticut State History Museam's Colt Collection. You guy's want to see 1911 SN 1? Yeah, it is a lost art. OP Congrats! You got a keeper! Shoot it, love it, and keep it in the family. I have tried (briefly) to find an image of S/N 1 - if you have a link or picture, I am dying to see it. I wonder what it is insured at with the popularity of this particular model of firearm. Bob |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Tag for later. I'm going to post up some pictures from the Connecticut State History Museam's Colt Collection. You guy's want to see 1911 SN 1? Yeah, it is a lost art. OP Congrats! You got a keeper! Shoot it, love it, and keep it in the family. I have tried (briefly) to find an image of S/N 1 - if you have a link or picture, I am dying to see it. I wonder what it is insured at with the popularity of this particular model of firearm. Bob Probably at least 1/4 million bucks, maybe more. |
That is a beautiful gun in unbelievable condition for it's age. I also agree that even to this day, Colt's have the best rollmarks but I have to disagree with the notion of that particular one being the perfect 1911. That gun has all of the "A1" changes and to me, I don't care for any of the "A1" changes. I greatly prefer flat MSH's, longer triggers and less bite prone grips safety's. IMO, the original was much closer to perfection...
I know that one is a replica but still damn nice! |