Posted: 10/23/2015 6:01:21 PM EDT
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Will this runaway train ever slow? More and more shooters are going strictly 9 for defense. When did this start and when will it end? I truly see a revolution going on with American carry citizens. I own and shoot, and love, many calibers but I think my days of carrying "others" are over.
And I'm seeing it oore and more in the shooting community. 9's are HOT! right now. |
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When you consider effectiveness, cost, availability, magazine capacity, or any other objective factor, why shouldn't 9mm be on top? Given these factors, IMO 9mm wins over the others - .25, .32, .380, .357 sig, .40, .45, etc. I shoot a lot of 45acp just because I like it. I have a .40 to help ride out the next ammo shortage. Otherwise, 9mm is where it's at.
When will it "stop?" I guess when there's something better given the above criteria. I suppose I'm surprised at your...surprise. |
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When you consider effectiveness, cost, availability, magazine capacity, or any other objective factor, why shouldn't 9mm be on top? Given these factors, IMO 9mm wins over the others - .25, .32, .380, .357 sig, .40, .45, etc. I shoot a lot of 45acp just because I like it. I have a .40 to help ride out the next ammo shortage. Otherwise, 9mm is where it's at. When will it "stop?" I guess when there's something better given the above criteria. I suppose I'm surprised at your...surprise. Seen a lot in almost 6 decades. Revolvers were once Kings. When I started agencies were just starting on the 1st Gen autos. In the service I carried a M-15. When I started civilian a 686. I would call the rise of semi's a revolution. We had no idea in the '70's they would become so functional and dependable. And along with it came the 9. But there were bumps in the road.Some high profile ones. Like the LA bank, the subsonic 147's....Others. Maybe the round got a bad rap but it was enough to make me carry a .45 for a long time. It was also enough to cause the development of others. .40, .357sig, 10mm. |
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This thread has 9mm group validation written all over it. I'm not so sure. I "like" shooting 45acp the best. I love the recoil impulse and the sound of that big piece of brass bouncing off the floor. Very "touchy feely." If I needed group validation it would be for the half dozen 45acp pistols I own. 9mm really is king when you consider the big general picture. It's a lot cheaper and it'll get the job done about as good or bad as any pistol round. When you consider cost and magazine capacity, I think that the die hard 45 / 40 folks (those who would avoid 9mm for whatever emotional reason) are the ones who seek "validation." |
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It was out of favor for quite a while. Most of all after Miami, Chicago, NYNY. Quoted:
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Reliable, cost effective, more rounds per mag, faster follow up shots.... What's not to like? It was out of favor for quite a while. Most of all after Miami, Chicago, NYNY. How old are you  A lot has changed over the last 20 years in the ammo market regarding 9mm defensive ammunition.
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It's always been the most popular caliber, especially to new shooters.
People like to flock towards whatever is being adopted by large government agencies, because, you know, the .gov knows best 
I like 9mm in small, lightweight guns. In service sized autos, unless it's a range toy, it's a .40 or .45 for me. |
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Simple, the 9mm has risen to the top again due to advancement in bullet design/performance. In the REAL world the quality 9mm jhp's are giving equal performance to the .40 and so close to the .45 to be statistically insignificant. Been a 1911 45acp guy all my life though I find myself carrying a 9mm now a days more and more. |
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I love shooting my 45. It is probably my favorite. BUT... I would rather pack 190 rounds of 9mm in 19 round mags than 200 rounds of 45 in 8 round mags if I had to vacate to the woods. Why would you take that much handgun ammo? Do you not have a rifle? |
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Simple, the 9mm has risen to the top again due to advancement in bullet design/performance. In the REAL world the quality 9mm jhp's are giving equal performance to the .40 and so close to the .45 to be statistically insignificant. Been a 1911 45acp guy all my life though I find myself carrying a 9mm now a days more and more. 9mm has always been tops popularity wise. That there's no practical difference in calibers I disagree with. That technology that makes 9mm better has improved all calibers. In the same loads I'm still seeing 45ACP>.40S&W>9mm. As always, carry what you shoot well and are willing to tote. Tell me about this real world you speak of... |
| Another thing to think about back in the awb days when civilians were limited to new ten round mags only most people said well if I can only have ten they will be big. Thankfully that is gone federally although we still suffer the yoke of oppression here in ny so now that mag capacity is restored to full the more are better idea is swinging back. |
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High capacity, 180 grain bullet with more momentum to better penetrate and crush bone, larger diameter hole, better penetration through automobile glass, what's not to like? Oh wait..............that's .40 S&W.  The recoil hurts my delicate hands. 
On a tech note, I prefer the easier recoil with the 9mm. It just shoots so easy. |
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How old are you A lot has changed over the last 20 years in the ammo market regarding 9mm defensive ammunition.
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Reliable, cost effective, more rounds per mag, faster follow up shots.... What's not to like? It was out of favor for quite a while. Most of all after Miami, Chicago, NYNY. How old are you A lot has changed over the last 20 years in the ammo market regarding 9mm defensive ammunition.
I'm 59 yo and have been shooting for 51. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it the FBI that removed the 9 from favor with their 147 SS's and Miami shoot out? Further bad press came out of the 3 biggest PDs in the country. Some warrented ; Some not. So what's happened in the last 20 years? Sure there have been numerous attempts to remake the wheel. Even more so the carry community has grown and grown wiser. There is no magic pill from a handgun. As long as its a quality jhp at a good velocity and the bullet both expands and holds together, then actual load is about 5'th in importance. Ammo has improved but so have shooters. If I had no restrictions, Dept. or financial I,d probably carry a .357 Sig cause I believe in the science behind it and have seen the results of its magnum cousin. As it is the 9mm will define me as a shooter for the duration. In the early 80's I'd never had said that. |
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I'm 59 yo and have been shooting for 51. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it the FBI that removed the 9 from favor with their 147 SS's and Miami shoot out? Further bad press came out of the 3 biggest PDs in the country. Some warrented ; Some not. So what's happened in the last 20 years? Sure there have been numerous attempts to remake the wheel. Even more so the carry community has grown and grown wiser. There is no magic pill from a handgun. As long as its a quality jhp at a good velocity and the bullet both expands and holds together, then actual load is about 5'th in importance. Ammo has improved but so have shooters. If I had no restrictions, Dept. or financial I,d probably carry a .357 Sig cause I believe in the science behind it and have seen the results of its magnum cousin. As it is the 9mm will define me as a shooter for the duration. In the early 80's I'd never had said that. Quoted:
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Reliable, cost effective, more rounds per mag, faster follow up shots.... What's not to like? It was out of favor for quite a while. Most of all after Miami, Chicago, NYNY. How old are you A lot has changed over the last 20 years in the ammo market regarding 9mm defensive ammunition.
I'm 59 yo and have been shooting for 51. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it the FBI that removed the 9 from favor with their 147 SS's and Miami shoot out? Further bad press came out of the 3 biggest PDs in the country. Some warrented ; Some not. So what's happened in the last 20 years? Sure there have been numerous attempts to remake the wheel. Even more so the carry community has grown and grown wiser. There is no magic pill from a handgun. As long as its a quality jhp at a good velocity and the bullet both expands and holds together, then actual load is about 5'th in importance. Ammo has improved but so have shooters. If I had no restrictions, Dept. or financial I,d probably carry a .357 Sig cause I believe in the science behind it and have seen the results of its magnum cousin. As it is the 9mm will define me as a shooter for the duration. In the early 80's I'd never had said that. I knew you had be a bit older because the younger crowd would never have known about the crappy 9mm ammo available during the 80's But yes I agree with you about the handgun's limited capabilities. But - with the quality defensive ammo we have available to us today it makes the pistol perform the best it can and places the rest of performance on the ability of the shooter. I carried a 45 into the early 90's and then moved over to the 9mm after competing and then moving into actually training to fight with a handgun. I am even more confident shooting my G19 over my G21 any day of the week.
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High capacity, 180 grain bullet with more momentum to better penetrate and crush bone, larger diameter hole, better penetration through automobile glass, what's not to like? Oh wait..............that's .40 S&W. I'm with you, I like the 40 S&W. I can't believe I wasn't drafted into the 40 S&W club when it was cool. 
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I'm with you, I like the 40 S&W. I can't believe I wasn't drafted into the 40 S&W club when it was cool. Quoted:
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High capacity, 180 grain bullet with more momentum to better penetrate and crush bone, larger diameter hole, better penetration through automobile glass, what's not to like? Oh wait..............that's .40 S&W. I'm with you, I like the 40 S&W. I can't believe I wasn't drafted into the 40 S&W club when it was cool. 
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I'm with you, I like the 40 S&W. I can't believe I wasn't drafted into the 40 S&W club when it was cool. Quoted:
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High capacity, 180 grain bullet with more momentum to better penetrate and crush bone, larger diameter hole, better penetration through automobile glass, what's not to like? Oh wait..............that's .40 S&W. I'm with you, I like the 40 S&W. I can't believe I wasn't drafted into the 40 S&W club when it was cool. Iv'e put that crackerhead Miami jbt on ignore for not including me in it. so the hell with his dumb club.
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I'm glad that 9mm had come a long way. I have both a 9mm and a 40sw and I still feel that the 40sw will stop the threat better than the 9mm but preferred to carry the 9mm for the ease of shooting.
My Sig P250c 40sw is loaded with Underwood 155 XTPs and these are hard hitting SOBs, 1300 fps and 582 fpe. I have my HK USP V1 9mm loaded with Underwood 124+P XTPs and that's 1225 fps and 413 fpe. I like carrying the HK, sweet pistol and deadly accurate and hopefully very capable of stopping the threat. |
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I've shot all of the major calibers of semi auto. I've gone the diversity route where I had 9, 40 and 45. I've consolidated to all 9 then changed my mind and gone back.
Where I am now: 3 Glocks in 9mm and a Sig 220 in 45. I even pocket carry a 380. None are magical. The 9's are great. The 45's are too. I don't hAve to choose one or the other. I carry the 9 for weight and capacity. If I am lucky, ill never have to use any of them for self defense. |
| 9mm makes sense. It's the easiest of all the serious cartridges to hit with, and hits count more than anything. I carry 9mm, .45 ACP, .38 Special, and .38 Super and I have complete confidence that if (God forbid) I'm ever in a shooting situation that my choice in cartridges will be the least of my worries. They all work...the question is whether or not YOU work. |
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All handgun cartridges inherently suck. Recent advances in bullet technology have allowed 9mm to suck less than the rest (but still suck more than .357, .40, 45, and 10mm). Folks seem to forget that this technology has improved them all...and they still expand more with more consistent penetration in bigger calibers. Shoot what you can shoot in the guns you like and the calibers you can handle or want to pay for. People talk like all this magic and wizardry has skipped other calibers. That is not the case |
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Folks seem to forget that this technology has improved them all...and they still expand more with more consistent penetration in bigger calibers. Shoot what you can shoot in the guns you like and the calibers you can handle or want to pay for. People talk like all this magic and wizardry has skipped other calibers. That is not the case Quoted:
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All handgun cartridges inherently suck. Recent advances in bullet technology have allowed 9mm to suck less than the rest (but still suck more than .357, .40, 45, and 10mm). Folks seem to forget that this technology has improved them all...and they still expand more with more consistent penetration in bigger calibers. Shoot what you can shoot in the guns you like and the calibers you can handle or want to pay for. People talk like all this magic and wizardry has skipped other calibers. That is not the case As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, there are considerations in choosing a pistol caliber other than bullet design: adequate terminal efficacy (relative to handgun cartridges), magazine capacity, affordability, availability, "shootability" (muzzle rise, recoil, etc...) and more. The advances in bullet design allowed 9x19mm to catch up. It's in an evaluation of the other factors that we see 9mm's advantages. Shoot what you want, but at least try to be reasonable about the decision. |
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As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, there are considerations in choosing a pistol caliber other than bullet design: adequate terminal efficacy (relative to handgun cartridges), magazine capacity, affordability, availability, "shootability" (muzzle rise, recoil, etc...) and more. The advances in bullet design allowed 9x19mm to catch up. It's in an evaluation of the other factors that we see 9mm's advantages. Shoot what you want, but at least try to be reasonable about the decision. Quoted:
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All handgun cartridges inherently suck. Recent advances in bullet technology have allowed 9mm to suck less than the rest (but still suck more than .357, .40, 45, and 10mm). Folks seem to forget that this technology has improved them all...and they still expand more with more consistent penetration in bigger calibers. Shoot what you can shoot in the guns you like and the calibers you can handle or want to pay for. People talk like all this magic and wizardry has skipped other calibers. That is not the case As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, there are considerations in choosing a pistol caliber other than bullet design: adequate terminal efficacy (relative to handgun cartridges), magazine capacity, affordability, availability, "shootability" (muzzle rise, recoil, etc...) and more. The advances in bullet design allowed 9x19mm to catch up. It's in an evaluation of the other factors that we see 9mm's advantages. Shoot what you want, but at least try to be reasonable about the decision. But of course, which is why I have my favorite and best shooting guns in 9, 40, and 45. Being unidimentional is for boring fools. 9mm hasn't caught up. It's gone from marginal to adequate (in a few loadings). Hardly as triumphant as espoused here. That's the reality. It is and remains the most popular out there, but let's not kid ourselves. |
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Adequate terminal performance with faster follow up capability makes it arguably a superior choice. Quoted:
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9mm hasn't caught up. It's gone from marginal to adequate (in a few loadings). Hardly as triumphant as espoused here. That's the reality. Adequate terminal performance with faster follow up capability makes it arguably a superior choice. Whatever works for you. |
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I have a friend that called the 9 MM the Nine Monkey Meter or sub caliber junk and he never really liked any handgun cartridge that didn't start with a "4". He carried a 1911 45 ACP but preferred the 44 magnum, 41 magnum or 45 Long Colt. I always liked semi autos and my first duty pistol was a S&W 39 which were being used by some LE in the mid 70's. My Friend convinced the Sheriff to switch from model 10's to Colt 70 series 1911's in 45 ACP back in the mid 70's.
I told my friend about this new 9 MM Glock 17 I got to shoot. I said it was really innovative and I thought it had some advantages over my Browning Hi Power. Well my friend picked up a Gen 1 Glock 17 and he got bit by the sub caliber bug. He is the biggest Glockaholic I know. He went from carrying 5" 1911 or a S&W 645 to Glocks of all persuasions but today usually packs a Glock 27 or Glock 43. We both realized it is better to make good hits and use good tactics than it is the particular handgun cartridge. If there was trouble we both preferred long guns to any handgun. Back when the only ammo was FMJ or round nose lead the bigger diameter bullets made a lot of sense. With the better ammo it has leveled the playing field a little. The smaller 9's make a lot of sense, number one rule is to have a gun, if your choice is to big to carry you won't have it when you need it. |
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Lets face it, for those of us that would call themselves "shooters". By that I dont mean Gods gift to shooting but rather we just love to shoot. And for the most part shoot pretty well.
For me shooting the 9mm is kinda like shooting a .22, or 5.56mm, or 7.62x39, or maybe .308. Its because its "fun" to shoot and the average guy can shoot a lot of them because he/she can afford them. Theres more to it, certain rounds are more "fun" to shoot then others tho I admit its different for everyone. But the 9mm sorta just kinda fits right in there. Everyone has fun shooting the 9mm just like "everyone" has fun shooting a 1911 type pistol, which is probably why 9mm 1911 type pistols are starting to come to the market. Its the fun factor you see, as well as it being a pretty decent self defense round. If Im not careful I'll burn thru a thousand just having fun. I try to limit my range time, and ammo budget, to practical pistol shooting but if Im not careful Im perfectly capable of burning thru a whole lot of 9mm just having "fun". |