Posted: 11/30/2005 11:52:31 AM EDT
| Many have stated that the plug system is their prefered set up over the full leangth guide rod. My question is will the full leangth steel guide rod help recoil that much on an alloy framed 1911? I am getting used to taking in apart but hate the idea of needing a toll to field strip my pistol. It already recoils more than my G.I. which is fine but if I put the plug in instead of the guide rod will it up the recoil that much? I just did not want to buy the parts without getting an opinion first but I guess if I did not like it they could always be spare parts fir my G.I.. Thanks for any input. |
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I guess all those competition shooters, shooting tens of thousands of rounds a year, for their job are wrong. My competition pistol usually goes a minimum of 2-3 thousands rounds (about a months worth of shooting) before it is cleaned and it shoots .5" at 50 yards all day. It's designed to do so and hit targets from 6" to 50 yards in the same array. We'll shoot a 30 round stage in under (or around) 15 seconds with a reload. The level of performance required of IPSC/USPSA and serious IDPA pistols require that the recoil spring be guided through its travel to prevent any kind of spring binding from debris, heat, corrosion and during VERY rapid fire. Many folks think it's a gamers tool for IPSC/USPSA race guns. Just curious, 'cause all the IDPA guys put them in their pistols too (i.e. Wilson, Brown, Baer, Yost, et. al.). Interesting too, how it's a standard feature now and it's harder to find a pistol with a plug than without one. If I was a World War re-enactor, or shot a G.I. pistol 'cause I was a purist, or flat out just didn't shoot that much, then you bet your butt that I'll be using a plug. If I'm shooting thousands of rounds out of a pistol that is on par with a top fuel dragster, I want every part in that machine knowing EXACTLY where it needs to go and do it as fast as possible, with no hiccups. Plus, it's easier to take the dang pistol(s) apart (as evidenced by only having one 1911 with a barrel bushing. all the rest are bull or hybrid barrels) BTW, the weight that a guide rod adds is very small, unless you go with a tungsten rod. Then however, you will run into possible problems of frame erosion as they tend to beat the hell out of them. SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic 249th MP Detachment (EACF) Camp Humphreys, ROK |
+1 Couldnt have said it better myself. Remember dont believe it just cause somebody on the internet says its true. Put a little thought into it and see what the people who shoot all day are using. |
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HA!! That was good, thanks for the laugh...  I wish somebody would have taken the time to explain all this to me years ago. 
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I don't know which are sarcastic and which are sincere. Oh well. As for "real world" pistols and what they use...him...last time I checked Glock has something like a 75% market share of LE sidearms...and ALL of their pistols have FLGR. Hmmm....and the departments that are using S&W's, et. al. tend to have them as well. Probably a coincidence. Probably one too that Army Delta's (at least the ones I know) carry 1911's and spec FLGR's. Again...probably just a coincidence. Oh...and you can disassemble a 1911 faster as you don't have to deal with a barrel bushing. Take the upper off, advance the FLGR, place your pin (paper clip), remove the entire assembly. Barrel comes out (even if you're using a bushing and now no need for a wrench). Remove pin, rod and spring are apart. Done. SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic 249th MP Detachment (EACF) Camp Humphreys, ROK |
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Will a full length guide rod help cut down on recoil? Yes, there are solid tungsten rod units that add forward muzzle non-moving mass to counter act in the muzzle rise, and there are two spring units that will slow the slide down as it comes to the end of rearward stroke before the slide reaches the frame. Now having said that, the two spring units made out of tungsten shines in this effect, But having seen the two piece rods snap and disable the pistol, Not the ideal item for a defense pistol. The real question just comes down to the reason that you bought an alloy framed 1911, and adding more weight to the pistol just seems counter productive. Simple put, the heavier the pistol, the better it will resist moving/recoiling due to Newton's Three Laws of Motion. |
Well I am a Glock fan however the fact that so many LE people carry Glocks is because they are forced to by the dept. I would like to think that the police depts chose on the basis of what is actualy the best pistol but I do not believe that. I would not mind a Glock at all for a duty side arm however I have met plenty guys that would rather trade in their Glock for a 1911 or a SIG or something else. So I can not follow that reasoning. Again I think Glocks are great. Mine is a two piece and it takes twice as long to take apart and I can not do so without an allen wrench. My G.I. with a plug needs no wrench at all to take apart. So you must have a nicer set up than I have for sure (no sarcasim intended). As far as what competitors used would mean something to me if I was competeing but I am more interested in what people say that carry for a living and there pistol is a tool that is used to keep them and others alive IPSC does not intrest me one bit. I know many competetors load down their ammo and put in lighter springs too but I am not going to do that. Your first post in this thread does seem a little Condescending so that is why people are doing it back. LOL. If what you said is your opinion though I certainly would say it. Every one else around here does. LOL. |
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First off, I apologize for the condescending tone of my first post. For this I apologize. Y'all are good people, and brother (and sister) shooters and the last thing I want to do is offend anyone. Second, Combat Jack...beat me to it. I miss spoke. I knew something was funny when I wrote it and was confusing it him with another 'smith. My apologies. As for a FLGR's improving function. The reality is that the 1911 served the military VERY well for 74+ years. If not for the interests of cost savings on ammunition and wanting a higher capacity pistol (my theories) we would still be using it (and is probably why the Army has recently purchased something like 50,000 more 1911's). With that I think it is a PREVENTIVE solution to a problem. Before joining the Army, I fired a minimum of 35k rounds per year on just my Open gun. About 15-20k with my Limited gun. About the same with my L10/IDPA/carry gun. On top of that are the other 1911's that I have (I only own 1911's). All of them have FLGR's and it's because the performance demands that I put on a pistol both for competition and carry are such that if I can prevent a potential problem, I will. A good example is using factory ammunition vs. handloads. My handloads have an SD of less than 7, but for my life, I only use factory. Not due to hollowpoints, or velocity, etc. Simply for reliability. On a lighter note, on 2-piece guide rods, they are a huge pain in the ass. Here's a tip if you go the route of the Allen wrench (which by the book is the right way), it will take longer. On the one pistol that DID have a 2-piece, I red Loc-Tited it together, then drilled a take-down hole. Problem solved. The process for takedown once the upper is removed. Advance guide rod and hold with pin (paper clip). Remove recoil spring/guide rod assembly. Rotate barrel bushing and remove. Remove barrel. Done. Again...my apologies if anyone was offended or upset at all by anything written. It was not my intent to do so. Hope to see you guys down range one day soon. Take care, SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic 249th MP Detachment (EACF) Camp Humphreys, ROK |
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I shot my Para P14 for 3 or 4 years before installing a Wilson FLGR. I noticed the action was smoother in both handling the weapon (working the slide) and shooting the gun. I have been using it ever since and see no good reason to go back to a plug. In my non-scientific mind there is no functional drawback to a FLGR. I'd love for someone to explain any different.  Now, in terms of disassembly... I can only speak for my Wilson FLGR, but it is not any more difficult, or longer of a process than when I had the plug. The Wilson rod is not so long that it gets in the way of the bushing. I use the bottom of the magazine to push down the plug so it is out of the way of the bushing, rotate the bushing and carefully let the spring and Wilson plug uncoil. From there I continue with disassembly. I reverse the process to put it all back together and have been doing that since 96 or 97 w/o an problems. No tools, no bushing wrenches, no paperclips... |
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Quote Now, in terms of disassembly... I can only speak for my Wilson FLGR, but it is not any more difficult, or longer of a process than when I had the plug. The Wilson rod is not so long that it gets in the way of the bushing. I use the bottom of the magazine to push down the plug so it is out of the way of the bushing, rotate the bushing and carefully let the spring and Wilson plug uncoil. From there I continue with disassembly. I reverse the process to put it all back together and w/o any problems. No tools, no bushing wrenches, no or paperclips... +1 
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