Posted: 4/24/2005 2:21:20 PM EDT
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I am new to Alaska and have never had to worry about bears when fishing before. I plan to do alot of hiking and salmon fishing this year and with my biggest caliber pistol being a 45, I need a new gun for protection. I have been thinking about this and am puzzled about what I should get. Keep in mind the gun will be carried all day during the long summer days up here. Should I get, 44 mag revolver- Is this really enough? I understand placement is key but I would like to give myself the best chance to stop the bear early in the fight. I also like the ability to shoot 44 spl for target practice. 454 c- I hear the recoil is huge in this caliber (keep in mind I have never shot anythig bigger than a my usp45c. I think you can shoot 45 long colt in these but am not sure. Is it realistic to get a accurate second shot off with this caliber? Someone described the recoil to me as "hitting your hand with a sledge hammer" 12 gauge- Not really sure how practical it is to carry all day but I do know that the revolvers above are also pretty darn heavy. I would want something with a 16 inch barrel so it would be lighter and easier to carry. The thing is, I would want a light syn. gun like a rem 870 but would be shooting 3 inch slugs at bears. This sounds painful. I have never owned a shotgun and my exp. is very limited with them. 500s&w- These are very heavy and the rounds are very expensive. Yet again, it would probably be my best bet to end a bear attack quickly. I would of course practice extensivly with my choice to make sure I could use it when and if the time came. I am open to all suggestions so feel free to tell me exaqctly what I should be carrying. Thanks in advance. |
| Keep in mind, a 16" 12 gauge is a SBS. While probably not hard to do in a gun friendly place like alaska, it's gonna be a pain in the but to do the paperwork. While I'm no expert on bears or Alaska, keep you mode of travel in mind. If fishing in a boat or a canoe, a 12 gauge would be perfect. If travelling light, and trying to use your hands for a a fishing pole, net, etc. then I would choose one of those big bad revolver. |
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please forget the pistol/revolver issue.... 2 things come to mind... shotgun or rifle... i would either get a slug gun...with sights and a screw in choke set up... (insert your shotgun pick here) remington winchester- i'm a winchester 1300 man...myself. benelli or levergun capable of carnage (insert your rifle pick here) marlin winchester- the winchester 94 bigbore...is my daily woods gun....444 marlin |
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Get a Marlin lever action carbine in .450 Marlin caliber. It is short, fairly light, you can put Ashley Ghost ring sights on it fairly cheap, and/or a low power Leupold extended eye relief scope on a scout rifle like mount, with quick release scope rings in case the scope fails and you need to use the Ashley BUIS. That is how I have mine set up. .450 Marlin is somewhere between 45-70 and 458 Win Mag. It should do a bear with no trouble if you do your part. If you fish with a buddy... you probably won't need it though. You also don't need to be able to out run the bear. You just need to be able to out run your buddy!!! |
I checked out that revolver and really like it! How much do they go for? There aren't any dealers here in AK, is there any place online that sells them? Also how hard is it to find .445 super mag ammo? How good of a revolver is this? I am new to revovlers so I know squat about them. How do they compare to S&W or RUGER? |
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Given the swarms of fisherman who frequent AK and the relative paucity of bear attack, I would have to conclude that statistically, your chances of being chawed are pretty slim. OTOH, tell that to the jogger and the jogger's son who both just got wrecked in the last couple of weeks. I would choose a short barreled rifle loaded with failsafes or barnesX over any of those firearms. The pic is probably got a pic of a Danno .445 supermag guide or something... I had a buddy who dumped a mag of pathetic 9mm 147gr. HP into a sow on Chichagoff Island after it knocked into his forest engineer buddy. The attack was terminated, although the bear was not. I guess my point is, bear attacks have been halted with very strange and apparently inadequate tools. I should add tho, that my buddy scurried to the nearest gun shop after this encounter and grabbed a 45-70 guide gun. I don't have any experience with bears out of the Tongass (SE) area, but I would say that GENERALLY, bears mind their own business, until you piss or startle them off, pass too close by to a carcass that they are guarding or infringe on them with cubs. Unfortunately, by fishing, you are increasing your exposure risk. I just picked up a Beretta 1201 shotgun-- it must weigh about 6.5 lbs, which is quite handy. What I suspect the downside is, apart from recoil, is durability. Shotguns have thin walled barrels, and the Beretta's is particularly so. Some of the Ithacas that I have carried are better in this regard. you could pick up a 20" pump action that would probably be reasonably light. This isn't a problem as long as you don't fall on your firearm or otherwise go splat out in the woods or river. If you have a shotgun, stoke it with Brenekkes slugs, probably the 1oz variety. Hevishot has some slug and shot tungsten that looks intriguing, but it's new in the marketplace I would not hesitate to carry a .44 with garretts or other non-expanding slugs. In my mind, I'd still rather carry a .308 carbine loaded with Failsafes than the SW .500, but it seems to be quite popular. |
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BTW, just packed my DW .357 loaded with hardcast while riding the mountain bike around in SE AK yesterday. Despite the inadequate gun not one bear was spotted, but we did see a 35lb beaver hanging out insouciantly underneath the Spassky bridge. Earlier in the week, we chased a brown down the road for a bit in our work rig, and it swerved off the road and hung in the brush trying to figure out what the hell we were about. The actions of Dan wessons have a reputation for durability. I don't know what the trigger quality is like on current production, but the one I have was made in '73, and the action is smoooooth. I wouldn't trade it for ANY other revolver, the more so since I have a ridiculous 15" barrel that I can swap on. |
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"painful" becomes a very relative term when a 700lb jiggly critter is knocking over saplings and plowing through the brush on it's way to a rendezvous with yous. I am pretty sure you can handle the recoil of a shotgun 100% fine. One of my crew was from Smith college and was proably 5' nothing and 100lbs if that and she was ok with an Ithaca 12ga after I sawed the stock down a bit. Alaska, in my experience is awash in good used guns that are suitable for bear protection. If you buy new, you are throwing money away. |
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I would recommend posting on the GD forums. Better yet post a note on the Alaska or hometown forums or whatever they are. 95% of the Alaskans here seem to be from your neck of the woods. I am in SE AK, and know jack shit about anything in the interior. ETA, I am sorry that I cannot tell you exactly what you should buy. That is personal preference. Right now, I am screwing around with that Beretta auto shotgun, b/c I am under the delusion that 6 1oz slugs should be good firepower. Plus, it will double as a provider of withering firepower in a home protection situation. That being said, I would not carry this while working, because when I am working, I am frequently falling off logs, falling on my ass and generally treating the firearm poorly. Rifles generally have a better reputation for positive extraction and feeding. Plus, items like the winchester model 70 can be hosed off with WD40 and thrown in a rack with few worrys. Finally, you can beat on them a little more, although if you abuse something, you deserve whatever failure you experience. I have owned a remington 870 express which failed to extract in the hands of a much better shotgunner than myself. This is why I am not all that sold on the shotgun in general for reliability. At the same time, I have carried Ithacas quite happily in the field. |
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I carried a .44 s&W 29 stoked with Keith 310 gr swc while stationed at King Salmon, AK....right up until I saw my first brown bear dragging a dead adult moose. I put a pistol grip on my 12ga and carried it loaded with slugs in a homemade scabbard attached to my pack frame after that. Easy access, weight was on shoulders instead of belt, and didn't interfere with fishing. (those bears are BIG---have enough gun) |
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I had to take out a charging bear with my 1911 in .45 acp. It took more than one shot though. It kept coming even after a warning shot. Whatever you choose be comfortable with it and get lots of trigger time in before you go out. It happens faster than you think. Good luck finding something. monoskier |
Well first, let me all thank you for your advice. I was out today looking at some options and found a new winchester 1300 for $240 and could not pass that up. I am planning to also get a 44 mag, probably a red hawk when I get back from vacation in a couple of weeks. I figure, I can't make up my mind so I will just get both. Thanks again |
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The Red Hawk .44 is a good choice, I bought one because it will fit 340 grain +P+ loads like what Buffalo Bore sells. Item 4D: 340 gr. LBT-LFN GC . (1478 fps / M.E. 1649 ft. lbs.) Per Box of 20 $28.99 NEW HEAVY 44 MAGNUM +P+ This new load is designed for only certain revolvers that have the cylinder length to handle it. They are as follows. Ruger Red Hawk, Taurus Raging Bull and Dan Wesson Revolvers. |
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Well, the closest I have been to the "Great White North" is northern Michigan in the summer, so WTF do I know? I would say that a 12ga. 870 with 1oz. slugs would be handy and inexpensive enough to do what you want. I have a real problem thinking that many guys can actually hit a charging Brownie with a gigantic handgun like some of the Rugers or the .454s, but maybe they can. Remember that what works for "hunting"...as in "set up your shot"... is a LONG way from what may be useable on a "charging, pissed off" bear! It will do you little good if the bear dies 30 minutes after YOU do! I am not so sure that a 9mm FMJ might not work as well as anything else for this specific issue. Head shots...with mouth open, preferrably...and lots of penetration. That said, you can bet thet I will never need to find out unless the bastards invade north Florida! 
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Galco now makes a good holster for the new S&W small/bear protection .50 cal. pistol. v(I saw it on Shooting USA, with Jim Scouten) One thing is for sure, from every story I've ever read.... you will only have about 1 second to react.  Most stories start out: "We were calling moose, and heard this rustling in the bushes, so we waited for the moose to appear. Suddenly a giant bear came charging out of the bushes like lightning and was on me before I could get my pistol out of its holster. As I was being flung about like a rag doll, I never could get my hand on my pistol." So stay alert, and use a holster that doesn't have any physical retention straps, but is open on top for quick draw. Or, if you choose a shotgun or rifle, don't have it slung over your shoulder in a way you can't have it shouldered pronto. Carry it. |
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There are some news reports of a guy killing one last year with a 9mm but he had to unload the clip. I am not going to bank on the fact that I will have time to fire 9 rounds of 45 from my HK. I am going to shoot the win. 1300 tommorow with some slugs to see how that does. I am going to purchase a 44 mag when I get back from California in a couple of weeks. I have just about settled on the Ruger but am also considering the taurus with the muzzle break. Does it really make that much of a difference for a follow up shot? The taurus in alittle cheaper but hat is not my primary consern. It will either be the ability of the ruger to shoot the buffalo bore rounds or the muzzlebreak of the taurus....But then again I like the 626 mountain gun aswell. Hell I don't know  Thanks for all of your help guys. If anyone needs a contact in AK for a fishing trip or something let me know! |
Last week, spoke to a guy heading back to AK. Says he carries a 12 gage with slugs. He used it twice with encounters so close, all he could do was point and shoot. Missed both times, but close enough that the bear stopped or leaped back and reconsidered. He does a lot of filming and fishing, but for the most part, been around them enough that he doesn't have a problem with them in the same proximity i.e. fishing. Do they sense fear or something is out of whack? He says the problem is usually when you cross paths and both parties get startled...........or a tourist thinks it's Winnie. The best advise he mentioned was "for the love of God" avoid the stupid little (lunch) bells that's sold to "tourists" (large caliber "Cow" bells may work though  )and don't start yelling/screaming at the bear. You're better off throwing rocks, because your situation is hopeless at that point. And wasn't that the same jogger that survive a previous attack?
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all the park rangers out at Brooks had those loud-ass whistles. Anytime they were walking down a trail, they'd toot or just yell "HEY BEAR" every so often. I believe you're 99% correct that you get into trouble with bears when you surprise each other....It's the other 1% that scares me the most--bump into one of the pissed off, hungry and ornery ones, pitbull types and it's all over but the bleeding, crying and dying. I have video with me and a partner flyfishing on the Naknek River. There were probably 20 bears within 200 yds standing on a waterfall. They didn't give us any problems or trouble at all, but I sure as hell didn't pay a lot of attention to the fishing that day....too busy trying to keep an eye on everything else. |
| Good choice on the shotgun. I've read that guides don't usually go for 3" because feeding is more reliable with 2-3/4. In buck shot there's not much difference in power. The 2-3/4 are typically "hotter". More room for powder and less weight in shot. The 3" bucks have more shot but are slower. It's not like birdshot. Birdshot the 3" are hotter and more shot. Now that you got your shotty, shoot it alot, with loads you'll be using. Practice and make sure it's good to go for reliablility. Shotguns are not that heavy and I think it'll be not too bad to carry around alot. Make sure you shoot what you take in the field with you, it sounds like a movie but you don't want to trust unproven ammo. |
A 10mm would not be a bad choice (180gr. @1300 is over 700ft lbs of thump) niether would a ruger single action in .45 LC with 300gr. hp's. But how about a 16" .308 bolt rifle (Scout style) with a hasty sling. It would not wiegh more than 6lbs. Ruger has a model that fits this bill. and it's hard to argue with 180 or 200 grain Barnes X bullets @ 2400 or 2500fps for nearly 2600ft lbs. of thump! and what could be more reliable? Wow! just went to the Ruger site, you can get thier Ruger Frontier in .300Win Short Magnum, 161/2" scout type rifle! That would be my choice for fishing in BEAR country! and if I get a chance to fish Alaska before I'm Too old that is what I will be packing! |