Posted: 3/21/2013 3:34:22 AM EDT
| Been kicking around the idea of slowly building up a 1911. Always wanted one, and like building things myself if its not way over my head. Does one need to be a gunsmith in order to 'fit' a 1911 together, or can you simply purchase parts and assemble into a working pistol? Would be a standard 5" government sized pistol. |
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Been kicking around the idea of slowly building up a 1911. Always wanted one, and like building things myself if its not way over my head. Does one need to be a gunsmith in order to 'fit' a 1911 together, or can you simply purchase parts and assemble into a working pistol? Would be a standard 5" government sized pistol. Most all of the 1911 parts have to be fitted, its nothing like an AR15 or a Glock, only a few parts come in mind to me that simply drop in without fitting. [mainspring housing and it's internal parts, magazine release and it's internal parts, the grip screw bushings, screws and grips] For the most part,everything else has to be fitted by a knowledgeable gunsmith. Two reasons quality 1911's are expensive are the price of good parts and mostly labor to a qualified gunsmith in the 1911 arena. Don't let Bubba build it and don't be Bubba. I have two Nighthawks and a Wilson , because I am a would be Bubba. Suffer through spending the coin and you'll have something to be proud of that wont blow up, malfunction or go full auto on you. After you buy something nice and it functions 100% , don't mess with it. 
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| For a base gun a foreign made RIA or Springfield will run in the 500 range a good used basic colt 150-200 more. ( my last used excellent condition colt bought last fall cost me $700) just to buy all the parts of reasonable quality is going to cost more than that |
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I remain of the belief that an intelligent, PATIENT person can build a decent 1911... but I have to admit that I've met few who have that level of patience.
Building a 1911 is, first, a matter of understanding the design (that's where the "intelligent" part comes in). There are some good resources online and some great books available to help learn how the parts should fit and how they work together...but be critical in your selection of resources. If you rely on a youtube video called "Dremel Dan's 5-Minute Trigger Mods," don't be surprised when you end up with a full-auto .45. Once you have that understanding, though, there's no reason to fear things like fitting the frame and slide, the bushing...even the barrel (although barrel fit is pretty important, so if you don't really understand it, farm it out to a pro). The ignition system is really the only part I'd suggest 99% of us should leave to a professional. Not because it's a particularly complicated system, but because there's just not enough room for error. The difference between "good," "great" and "dangerous" is almost too small for the untrained eye to detect. So do some serious reflection before deciding if you want to build one yourself. Are you willing to study? If you don't have the right tools--and quality tools--are you willing to buy them, even though that's going to significantly increase your investment in the project? Are you patient enough to fit-assemble-test-disassemble-adjust-assemble-test-disassemble-adjust-assemble, ad infinitum, until your fingers literally bleed? When you go just a little too far with a file, are you prepared to throw away that fairly expensive part, order a replacement and wait a week for it to be delivered so you can try again? And can you look at yourself honestly enough to recognize your own limits so you know how far you can go and when you need to get professional help? I find building my own guns--including 1911s--incredibly satisfying. But it is not something to approach casually. |
| Though nobody apparently ever does it, I think a better route is to start out with an inexpensive gun like an RIA and slowly improve it over time. Learning how to properly fit an oversized barrel is the heart of any successful 1911 build. A good trigger job that is safe and will last tens of thousands of rounds is another facet of the process that takes a lot of study. |
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Though nobody apparently ever does it, I think a better route is to start out with an inexpensive gun like an RIA and slowly improve it over time. Learning how to properly fit an oversized barrel is the heart of any successful 1911 build. A good trigger job that is safe and will last tens of thousands of rounds is another facet of the process that takes a lot of study. Yes I think that I'll go the RIA, PR1911 etc route first. |
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Though nobody apparently ever does it, I think a better route is to start out with an inexpensive gun like an RIA and slowly improve it over time. Learning how to properly fit an oversized barrel is the heart of any successful 1911 build. A good trigger job that is safe and will last tens of thousands of rounds is another facet of the process that takes a lot of study. Yes I think that I'll go the RIA, PR1911 etc route first. That's an excellent place to start. Another is to find someone's "problem gun" that they'll let go cheap. It gives you the challenge of troubleshooting, identifying the problem(s) and fixing what needs to be fixed. Done right, you could end up with a higher-quality pistol than you might have been able to afford otherwise--and you get personal satisfaction and a learning experience. I am always on the lookout for "problem" guns. 
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You could also mill it from an 80% or less frame.
NO serial number is required - though its a good idea to stamp a made-up number on 1911s you make at home. The BATFE approves of making guns at home - it is right in their FAQ section. Rules are that you have to comply with YOUR state's laws, be legally able to own the gun, and cannot make them for sale or intended transfer. Otherwise, home made 1911s are GTG. www.roderuscustom.tzo.com for more info. |
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I am building a 1911 to my own wants from a Caspian slide & frame. I had Caspian do the slid-to-frame fitting, and I am having a very reputable, local shop do the rest of the fitting.
I will be picking some of the parts for them to use (sights, grips, safety, MSH), and letting them pick some as well (trigger components, barrel), as I trust their choices more than mine. While I do think there are some people who can build it (correctly & well) from scratch, I think the vast majority can't. |
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I thought about building a 1911. Thought it might be fun, till I read this...
The 1911 Project I'm not going to be building a 1911. At least not this decade. |
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I did KINDA what you're talking about. I bought an old Sistema that looked like it had been through 3 world wars. So bad, there wasn't any collectible value. Bought it for $139. Bought an aftermarket ez-fit barrel and bushing. Bought a matched ignition kit. Aftermarket hammer, and mainspring kit. All new springs. Sent it away to have the frontstrap checkered and the sight dovetails cut. Had the thumb safety fit cuz I ruined two trying myself. I did use a file to smooth some dings and sandblast the frame. Also fitted the new beavertail safety. Sent it out to get cerakoted. Bought new VZ grips. Just need sights and it'll be done.
Point is, I could have bought a very nice condition used colt for what I have spent putting it together. Or a new Ruger, even. AND been shooting it a whole lot faster. Not trying to crush your goals - just want you to know what to expect. |
| I built a 2011 pistol from parts. I am very young and have lots of time when not playing sports. I am extremely happy with my pistol as I just shot my first match with it with 0 malfunctions. It is ALOT of filing and time to do it right. I built mine as a 9mm. The hardest part was the barrel fitting. I used the kart ez fit barrel which is by far not a "drop in" barrel but you don't have to fit the link of the barrel. The whole process is very labor intensive but is extremely gratifying knowing that you built a pistol that is accurate and for less money than a "custom gun maker" would cost. So do your research and you should be fine building a 1911. |
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I thought about building a 1911. Thought it might be fun, till I read this... The 1911 Project I'm not going to be building a 1911. At least not this decade. that's a great link. There used to be an excellent stickied thread in this section, detailing another mans attempts at building a 1911, it was hard, slow going but I recall he enjoyed it. Be buggered if I can remember his name though... |
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I built a 2011 pistol from parts. I am very young and have lots of time when not playing sports. I am extremely happy with my pistol as I just shot my first match with it with 0 malfunctions. It is ALOT of filing and time to do it right. I built mine as a 9mm. The hardest part was the barrel fitting. I used the kart ez fit barrel which is by far not a "drop in" barrel but you don't have to fit the link of the barrel. The whole process is very labor intensive but is extremely gratifying knowing that you built a pistol that is accurate and for less money than a "custom gun maker" would cost. So do your research and you should be fine building a 1911. Post some pictures! Do you compete up at Sir Walter? |
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that's a great link. There used to be an excellent stickied thread in this section, detailing another mans attempts at building a 1911, it was hard, slow going but I recall he enjoyed it. Be buggered if I can remember his name though... I think that was "gaspain". http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_49/70569_.html |
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I built a 2011 pistol from parts. I am very young and have lots of time when not playing sports. I am extremely happy with my pistol as I just shot my first match with it with 0 malfunctions. It is ALOT of filing and time to do it right. I built mine as a 9mm. The hardest part was the barrel fitting. I used the kart ez fit barrel which is by far not a "drop in" barrel but you don't have to fit the link of the barrel. The whole process is very labor intensive but is extremely gratifying knowing that you built a pistol that is accurate and for less money than a "custom gun maker" would cost. So do your research and you should be fine building a 1911. Post some pictures! Do you compete up at Sir Walter? Not exactly sure how to post pictures. And no, mostly just the smaller matches at Rowan Country wildlife and places around there. There is a couple of people that shoot at rowan that shoot at Sir Walter. They say its a great match. |
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that's a great link. There used to be an excellent stickied thread in this section, detailing another mans attempts at building a 1911, it was hard, slow going but I recall he enjoyed it. Be buggered if I can remember his name though... I think that was "gaspain". http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_49/70569_.html Thankyou Sir, that was the one. |
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Been kicking around the idea of slowly building up a 1911. Always wanted one, and like building things myself if its not way over my head. Does one need to be a gunsmith in order to 'fit' a 1911 together, or can you simply purchase parts and assemble into a working pistol? Would be a standard 5" government sized pistol. One does not need to be a gunsmith to fit a 1911 , but you do need to know what you are doing . There is a wealth of info available , Kuhnhausen's books are a must have . Plus spending some time reading on the 1911 sites . Here is one I did just before the end of the year. link |
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Been kicking around the idea of slowly building up a 1911. Always wanted one, and like building things myself if its not way over my head. Does one need to be a gunsmith in order to 'fit' a 1911 together, or can you simply purchase parts and assemble into a working pistol? Would be a standard 5" government sized pistol. I would recommend d for your first 1911 build, to keep it as simple as possible. On your first build the most important thing is success. If you’re unsuccessful, you’ll never want to do it again, so set yourself up for success from the get go. Just keep it all as simple as possible. Then when you get a good working pistol, you can go back and upgrade parts as you see fit, or your competency levels can accommodate. Read as much as you can on the subject (I’ve given you some good links below). Many recommend the Kunhausen books; I think they suck. There’s a lot of technical information in there that’s good, some you may want later on as you begin improving on the basic gun; but for actually building a working gun, most tips I’ve learned over the years aren’t in the book, so it’s not all that helpful. Get on Youtube and watch videos of how to fit a safety, how to safety check the hammer/sear/disconnector. First and foremost the gun has to be safe, so make sure you completely understand the safety issues. And then watch videos on how to build a gun…watch them over and over again. One rule to never break: We modify the part, not the gun. Meaning, you make the part fit the slide or frame, not the slide or frame fit the part. The obvious exception would be sights or grip safeties that are intended to be permanent modifications to the gun. But you should get the idea. Now some tips on parts selection: When you order up your frame, make sure it DOESN’T have oversized frame rails that need to be fit to the slide; same for the slide. That’s just a job you don’t want to do on your first 1911, and honestly tight frame/slide rails is just a waste of time for most people. On the slide, if you can order one with a dovetail front sight slot; this will make it so you don’t have to have a front sight staking tool to install your sight. And while you’re at it, if you can get a slide that’s pre-cut for the sights you want, that will save you time, money, and headaches in the future. If you want to keep it simple, just get a standard dovetail in the rear sight; there are a lot of good sighting options for the humble standard dovetail. Next, start off with the easiest barrel you can find to fit; so start with a Roto-4 barrel. They’re cheap and almost always drop right in with almost no fitting. Fitting a barrel is a serious job, so start off slow. Once you have the whole gun built and functioning properly, then you can sell the Roto-4 and buy a nicer barrel. But trust me, you don’t want to go down the road of fitting a match barrel on your first build. Grip safety: Start with a “no gunsmith” grip safety to begin with. This is so when your gun is done, you can study the relationship of the grip safety to everything else. Then when you want to tackle a nice custom fit beavertail, you’ll have a much better idea of what you’re getting yourself into. Safety – here’s where I say, buy a high quality part. There’s very little difference in the fitting of a basic safety vs. a top quality part like the Wilson or Ed Brown. Really the only difference is how much metal you end up filing off to fit it properly. The higher quality safeties typically require that you take a good amount of metal in order to fit them. Barrel bushing – Now here’s one that’s not too tough. If you want to keep it all simple, then just do a drop in barrel bushing. Honestly, I’ve been a gunsmith for 25 years, and all my carry guns have drop in bushings. The match bushings are really rather over-rated, as is match accuracy on a combat gun. But to fit a match barrel bushing really isn’t hard. Some reaming out on the inside, and some removing of metal on the outside. There are those who will tell you that you need an expanding reamer to do the inside. 320 grit sandpaper around your finger as you carefully remove metal will do just fine. It takes more time, but the end result is the same. And you don’t have to have a lathe to do the outside. A very careful hand with a 1” belt sander will do the job just fine. Just remove a little metal, check the fit, and remove metal as needed. It’s a tedious process fitting parts. Hammer & sear. Buy the semi-prepped ones from Chip McCormick. These are cheap and typically have a nice trigger break right out of the box. Trigger – Get the trigger you want. Fitting a trigger is very simple (just find a guide online) Slide stop – I recommend the standard one, buy a decent one though and save yourself headaches. If you can pick up a used Colt one, they are very good. Mainspring housing – just whatever you want Firing pin & extractor – no real fitting needed in most cases. Sometimes an extractor needs to be tuned, but that whole extractor tuning thing is way overdone by experts on the internet. Sometimes it needs to be done, but most times it doesn’t. Pins & springs – here, just buy most anyone’s…it’s rather hard to buy a “bad” pin or spring to be quite honest. And truth be known, the “cheap” ones you see for sale, are often what many factories use. Magazine – Buy a very good magazine. These days my favorites are ACT MAG (I build all my guns with ACT-MAG’s, but will build to other quality mags on request), but there are lots of top quality magazine manufactures these days. Okay, that’s more than enough from me; best of luck to you sir. Here’s a good guide: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10311/GunTechdetail/Another-Low-Buck-1911-Build-Part-1 For a more in-depth guide to building a more precision 1911. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10304/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-I http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10305/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-II http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10306/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-III http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10307/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-IV http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10308/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-V http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10309/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-VI |
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Been kicking around the idea of slowly building up a 1911. Always wanted one, and like building things myself if its not way over my head. Does one need to be a gunsmith in order to 'fit' a 1911 together, or can you simply purchase parts and assemble into a working pistol? Would be a standard 5" government sized pistol. One does not need to be a gunsmith to fit a 1911 , but you do need to know what you are doing . There is a wealth of info available , Kuhnhausen's books are a must have . Plus spending some time reading on the 1911 sites . Here is one I did just before the end of the year. link Love the slide stop mod, very distinctive. |
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Been kicking around the idea of slowly building up a 1911. Always wanted one, and like building things myself if its not way over my head. Does one need to be a gunsmith in order to 'fit' a 1911 together, or can you simply purchase parts and assemble into a working pistol? Would be a standard 5" government sized pistol. I would recommend d for your first 1911 build, to keep it as simple as possible. On your first build the most important thing is success. If you’re unsuccessful, you’ll never want to do it again, so set yourself up for success from the get go. Just keep it all as simple as possible. Then when you get a good working pistol, you can go back and upgrade parts as you see fit, or your competency levels can accommodate. Read as much as you can on the subject (I’ve given you some good links below). Many recommend the Kunhausen books; I think they suck. There’s a lot of technical information in there that’s good, some you may want later on as you begin improving on the basic gun; but for actually building a working gun, most tips I’ve learned over the years aren’t in the book, so it’s not all that helpful. Get on Youtube and watch videos of how to fit a safety, how to safety check the hammer/sear/disconnector. First and foremost the gun has to be safe, so make sure you completely understand the safety issues. And then watch videos on how to build a gun…watch them over and over again. One rule to never break: We modify the part, not the gun. Meaning, you make the part fit the slide or frame, not the slide or frame fit the part. The obvious exception would be sights or grip safeties that are intended to be permanent modifications to the gun. But you should get the idea. Now some tips on parts selection: When you order up your frame, make sure it DOESN’T have oversized frame rails that need to be fit to the slide; same for the slide. That’s just a job you don’t want to do on your first 1911, and honestly tight frame/slide rails is just a waste of time for most people. On the slide, if you can order one with a dovetail front sight slot; this will make it so you don’t have to have a front sight staking tool to install your sight. And while you’re at it, if you can get a slide that’s pre-cut for the sights you want, that will save you time, money, and headaches in the future. If you want to keep it simple, just get a standard dovetail in the rear sight; there are a lot of good sighting options for the humble standard dovetail. Next, start off with the easiest barrel you can find to fit; so start with a Roto-4 barrel. They’re cheap and almost always drop right in with almost no fitting. Fitting a barrel is a serious job, so start off slow. Once you have the whole gun built and functioning properly, then you can sell the Roto-4 and buy a nicer barrel. But trust me, you don’t want to go down the road of fitting a match barrel on your first build. Grip safety: Start with a “no gunsmith” grip safety to begin with. This is so when your gun is done, you can study the relationship of the grip safety to everything else. Then when you want to tackle a nice custom fit beavertail, you’ll have a much better idea of what you’re getting yourself into. Safety – here’s where I say, buy a high quality part. There’s very little difference in the fitting of a basic safety vs. a top quality part like the Wilson or Ed Brown. Really the only difference is how much metal you end up filing off to fit it properly. The higher quality safeties typically require that you take a good amount of metal in order to fit them. Barrel bushing – Now here’s one that’s not too tough. If you want to keep it all simple, then just do a drop in barrel bushing. Honestly, I’ve been a gunsmith for 25 years, and all my carry guns have drop in bushings. The match bushings are really rather over-rated, as is match accuracy on a combat gun. But to fit a match barrel bushing really isn’t hard. Some reaming out on the inside, and some removing of metal on the outside. There are those who will tell you that you need an expanding reamer to do the inside. 320 grit sandpaper around your finger as you carefully remove metal will do just fine. It takes more time, but the end result is the same. And you don’t have to have a lathe to do the outside. A very careful hand with a 1” belt sander will do the job just fine. Just remove a little metal, check the fit, and remove metal as needed. It’s a tedious process fitting parts. Hammer & sear. Buy the semi-prepped ones from Chip McCormick. These are cheap and typically have a nice trigger break right out of the box. Trigger – Get the trigger you want. Fitting a trigger is very simple (just find a guide online) Slide stop – I recommend the standard one, buy a decent one though and save yourself headaches. If you can pick up a used Colt one, they are very good. Mainspring housing – just whatever you want Firing pin & extractor – no real fitting needed in most cases. Sometimes an extractor needs to be tuned, but that whole extractor tuning thing is way overdone by experts on the internet. Sometimes it needs to be done, but most times it doesn’t. Pins & springs – here, just buy most anyone’s…it’s rather hard to buy a “bad” pin or spring to be quite honest. And truth be known, the “cheap” ones you see for sale, are often what many factories use. Magazine – Buy a very good magazine. These days my favorites are ACT MAG (I build all my guns with ACT-MAG’s, but will build to other quality mags on request), but there are lots of top quality magazine manufactures these days. Okay, that’s more than enough from me; best of luck to you sir. Here’s a good guide: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10311/GunTechdetail/Another-Low-Buck-1911-Build-Part-1 For a more in-depth guide to building a more precision 1911. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10304/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-I http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10305/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-II http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10306/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-III http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10307/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-IV http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10308/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-V http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10309/GunTechdetail/Building-A-1911-Part-VI Awesome post and information, thanks for taking the time to write that all out! I have some videos to watch tonight
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