[ARCHIVED THREAD] - CCW Recommendations (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/13/2006 5:05:35 AM EDT
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Looking for a new primary carry gun. Something between a Kel-Tec P32 and a fullsize 1911. My 1st requirement is reliability, followed by concealability and power. I'm pretty open new/used, caliber etc. with one exception and one stipulation... Exception: No Glocks - don't care for them. Stipulation: Max price, out the door, ttl, etc. - $500.00 I'm looking at the Kahr P45, P40, P9 series now. Any thoghts on Kahr? |
1. You can carry a full-sized 1911 concealed. I do. Choosing to CCW is more than just carrying, it's a "lifestyle choice" and your wardrobe will have to adapt to that choice. Any clothes that conceal my Sig P239 SAS will conceal my 1911 just as well. That said, handgun width is MUCH more important than length when it comes to CCW. This is why the 1911 is so easy to conceal. 2. Start looking at used/consignment guns at your local funshop and online. $500 isn't much to spend on a quality handgun, and Glock (which you've ruled out) has that market pretty well cornered. MSRP on almost every normal sized (not mini/pocket) handgun is over that mark. Whatever you get, make sure you can shoot it well, it's not too small (3" barrels sacrifice a lot of accuracy for a dubious size advantage), and that it's not too heavy for you to keep on all the time. |
| For that price for a good CCW gun, I'd try out the S&W 391X's. I have a 3914 and I love it. It is a single stack 9mm and it is super comfortable in my hand. It is not pocket sized, plenty accurate for defensive ranges. You could hit a sillouhette at about 50-75 feet easily. I don't know about everyone's but mine has never had a single malfunction. Crisp trigger and it pulls straight back on recoil. I could damn near conceal the thing in a speedo and the factory 8 rounders are super cheap. I'm actually going to replace it for the most part with a Glock 19 but you don't like Glocks. I didn't like Glocks until actually about a couple weeks ago and became a true believer. Most important thing you do is go to a gun store with a range and see how different guns conceal under a regular shirt and how they feel and shoot. If they conceal under a regular shirt, they'll conceal easily under a coat and such. Oh yeah, I paid all of $290 for my 3914. |
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Thanks for the replies. I currently (did) carry a fullsize 1911. I'm downsizing financially. I also meant to state that I'm not opposed to revolvers either. I'm liking a couple of models S&W and the Ruger SP101. As far as my budget, if something is a bit over $500 MSRP but could be found discounted or used for under $500 I would definitely be interested in learning about it. Please keep it coming... |
| If you're not opposed to revolver, look into the s&w j's I believe. As much as I absolutely love Rugers, you may not want the sp101 because they are a bit heavier than the smiths. If weight is not an issue, either would be good. I just don't like revolvers for the fact that I am super confident with the reliability of an auto and would much rather change a magazine than a speed-loader and much more than one at a time. |
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I had a P32 and sold it. It would be OK for a backup, but not enough by itself. This is what I carry depending on what I am wearing XD 40 3" without the extension in my waistband.  or a Springfield Compact Light Weight 3.5" with Wilson mags and a F.L.E.T.C.H. high ride on my belt. 
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| Kahr makes a good little gun put they can be problematic. The steel frame guns are much more likely to run trouble free. The polymer frames are known to have more issues. I like the MK series but they are not my first choice. I like the Glock G23, but you don't so that is ruled out. I also carry a LW Commander and S&W 642 J Frame. With your cost requirements, I would look at the j frame, S&W M&P compact and the CZ Rami. |
I would reconsider your choice. I don't pretend to know your financial situation, but I think if you can afford to sell off the 1911 and buy something smaller, you can probably afford to just keep the 1911. You must have other reasons for wanting to dump it beyond making a few hundred bucks.. spill. 
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I would go for the G19. If you'd consider it, it's worth it. It's what I'm getting next and if you haven't seen this yet, this is what made me a true believer in the Glock's reliability! OMFG Glock 21 torture test This was done by Bigbore and was originally posted on here. |
+1, if you'll consider the G19 your all set. There isn't a better carry gun than the G19/G23 IMHO. |
Go with it, i have been carrying one for years and it would take alot of convincing for me to trust my life with anythinge alse. I have gotten so adjusted to it i would i actually be scared to carry anything else with out alot of extra training, espically something with an external safey, jusy point and squeeze baby. Ihave either been carrying a G19 or a G27 for over 10 years, with a S&W Airweight in the mix in the summers, thats a good back up gun. |
| I have a Kahr P9. I don't carry it yet because that would be illegal at this point for me. I bought it used for $370 out the door. I have run about 400 rounds through it with no hiccups other than the slide failing to go into battery sometimes when I don't use the slide release. It is not something that is fun to run more than 50-75 rounds through at a time. And I have found this out the hard way by doing 250 and 150 at both range sessions I have taken it to the range. |
| Last month I was at the range and a guy next to me was shooting a compact Kahr .45ACP 6 shot +1 if I remember correctly? Not sure which model, but had stainless steel upper and tupperware frame. He offered me to shoot it which I did. Was surprised on it's light weight and the recoil was more than managable. It seemed like it would conceal quite nicely for a square slide. Was not to excited about the double action only trigger, but it was smooth and consistent. Not a bad little heater....... |
| Well my choice of pistol in your price range would probably be the stoeger cougar. I read about it in the new G&A and it is only$349 from a dealer. Apparently stoeger is a sister company of beretta and the cougar used to be from the Beretta line and it also used to cost over $600. I have no experience with it I'm just telling you what I read. |
I couldn't use that set up. The first time I reached for something higher than my shoulder all my secrets would be told. I love my Kel-Tec with the belt clip for inside the waist band. I have been known to carry a full sized 1911A1 (although this pistol was never designed for CCW) in a similar holster as yours, but with a much longer coat. In the summer I can't even think about any outside the waist band gear as tee shirts are "uniform of the day" then. |
Glock 27 (.40S&W subcompact) If Glock discrimination is overpowering, BHPs make me wet.
Normal  Detective short slide 
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Actually, it's more than a few hundred dollars ...(For reference purposes only as it's sold) -------------------------------- No G36 for me. Tested fired one yesterday. It was uncomfortable to shoot. I couldn't imagine firing 150+ rounds through that thing at a match. Also the Kahrs are out. I misunderstood the price. -------------------------------- Here's a list of likely candidates I've come up with... Beretta Model 84/85 Beretta Model 9000S CZ 75 Compact FN FNP-9/FNP-40 Kel-Tec P-11 Ruger P95 Ruger P345* Springfield XD Series* Smith & Wesson M&P Series Stoeger Cougar Walther PPK/S Glock 19* (BTW, what's the difference between a 19 & 19C?) * - Top candidates Thanks all for the comments. (ETA: additional models) |
19C is compensated. I see no real purpose to this but hey to each their own. I have a P95--great gun but the trigger pretty much sucks. If you are looking at the compacts check out the CZ75 compacts. They are the same size as the G19/P95. I love mine. They are Sig heavy but more comfortable to shoot than everything on your list I have ever shot. And they are going to be under $500. And if you used to carry a 1911 then I suspect you will have no real problems with the weight. |
WoW! I though you were missing your right arm there for a minute. 
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CDNN You will have to download the catalog to see the price, OR call them and ask them if they have any left (which is what I did after speaking with my FFL who happens to have his info on file with them  ).ETA: it is advertised on page 49 of the 2006-5 catalog. |
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Thanks for the link gunz4me. Well, my 1911 sale fell through so this has taken a bit of a back seat. But I'm still looking for any input on the following models...
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The Kel-Tec is one ugly, little bastard. This one is about ten years old and the only thing even helping a little is the nickel plated slide. It is one of the smallest, lightest, full capacity (11rds.), full power (Browning locking system), 9mm pistols on the market. They were rude and crude when I bought mine, but the price was right and the design sound so it was a pleasure to provide the finishing touches. I slip it between my underwear and jeans with the belt clip over my belt, it's easy to dress and I can wear it all day or just as easily drop it in a pocket or ankle holster. It is not a target or steel match pistol. It's a no shit / save your ass, bare knuckle brawler that may require your absolute devotion to the concept in order to utilize it as it was designed. Carry it a lot, shoot it a little is the word here. Once a month I give it a clean and lube, take it to the range and dump the current mag of carry ammo into a target, load fresh and back into the waistband for another month. 
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IMO, the gun you will end up picking does not have to do with any thing other than your preferences and your body. Fat people have the ability to hid certain weapons easily on their body, but will never be able to truely hide a hip mounted gun above the hip. Skinny people can hid a gun anywhere. But large bulging guns will show up (like a Ruger or HK). If I had the money, I would recommend the following: Kimber or Springfield 1911 sub-compact. Rail, checkered front strap, thin grips from Alumina Grips or the no-skid pads (skate bording pads). Novak night sights, or some sort, are a must have IMO. I would say that it is a pretty effective set up. If you don't like the small grip and are a skinny person, I recommend a larger model with the same accoutrements and a beveled mag well. |
| I used to rely on an AMT backup .45, but I now am rapidly becomming a Kahr K9 fan. I originally bought it for the GF [small hands] but it ROX for carry. I had a P9 before and the whole 3/4 scale glock thing was cool, but I wasn't crazy about the grip. Holsters are also easier to find. If you do get a P9, you might want to consider applying a brooks AGrip to it. |
Well if your going to carry it.. if you ever have to pull it then I would save a few more dollars and get an HK USPc or P2000.. |
You are welcome for the link. Also, I plan on carrying either a full-sized or commander length 1911 when my mode of dress allows for it, so you could always try what you have first! IIRC the G19, which I still did not pick up yet, is about the same size as my 1911 Commander. OTOH, I am on week 3 on waiting for my Concealed Handgun Permit to arrive. 
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Keltec P11. It's cheap, small, and works. In a pinch, you can carry it in your back pocket, it's accurate enough to hit plates at 25', it can carry 13 rounds, and it comes with a lifetime warranty that actually is worth more than the paper it's printed on. Sure, it's ugly, and made out of plastic, but so what? It not a fashion accessory, it's a gun that you're going to use to defend yourself with if the time ever comes. I've put well over 1000 rounds through mine without a single problem... and if I ever have a problem, I know it will be taken care of because Keltec actually stands behind their warranty. If you're used to carrying around a P32, then the transition to a P11 will be relatively painless. The beautiful thing about the Keltecs is that you don't really have to change the way you dress; heck, they're small enough that you can even carry at the beach in a fanny pack. |
+1, There are better triggers. There are nicer finishes. There are sleeker, sexier pistols. But this one simply gets the job done. And for around $ 250.00, so you can have a head start on saving up for that next handgun purchase.  Also takes hi-cap S&W 59XX and 69XX magazines. |
That bad boy sure has the look of a Hi-Point  |
True, but I like the triangular sighting system on the Steyr pistol. I came close to investing in a set for my Glock 21, then decided to stick with what I know best versus trying something new. |
| I carry a Kahr PM40 in the summer and a HK P2000 SK .40 in the winter. I can carry the Kahr tucked in under a polo shirt in a FIST holster and it is invisible. Once through the break-in period I have had absolutely NO problems with the Kahr. The P2000 is outstanding, although a little above the $500 level. |
noooooooo. I think it looks great. I didnt like the looks of the old M9, but I think Steyr did a great job with the looks of the A1. And just to add to the good points.....cheaper than glock, better trigger (subjective but most agree), and lower bore axis.
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That ain't saying much; anything's better than a Glock.  Oops... did I just say that? 
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The Steyr M9 kicks ass. It's my current CCW. |
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OK, since no one else has recommended this, I will. I have a Kel-Tec P11 and it is a good CCW pistol, but this is my new favorite: http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h11/PAPACHUCK/1fa36e019cc85a6ec487bddaf524ee3b.jpg I've put around 1000 rds downrange with it and it has been 100%. 10+1 of .45ACP, great trigger, external safety, 2-dot Heine sights, lightweight, and reliable. What more could you ask for? Maybe a price of $330.00? Can't beat that. |
Oh the irony.  Since it appears that my Colt is sold it looks like I'll be purchasing a Glock G19 next week. It was the one that seemed to best balance my need for a primary carry gun and competition gun that's dependable and not expensive. Thanks for all the input. P.S. Don't start piling on now with a bunch of "Oh you gotta get this and that accessory" as my budget is busted.
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