Posted: 4/14/2008 8:10:10 AM EDT
|
Hello, first post. handed. I went to the range last night, and drew my CW9 from a Nemesis in the left front pocket. Mag release is on left side of firearm and it's not ambidextrous or reversible. Whenever I drew and then fired the mag dropped repeatedly so that only one round could be fired during rapid point-shooting drill. This was 'disconcerting' to say the least. It made me wish I were right-handed! Has to be combo of my grip pulling gun out from this holster with my left hand, immediately securing gun in my hands, and force of recoil of first shot. Side of my middle finger near the base is apparently depressing the mag release button. Is there any sound mechanical way to make it more difficult to drop the magazine? I've shot about 250 rounds through so far. But when I've taken more time securing my grip and doing relaxed shooting, that mag stays in its place. The point is that with a hurried pocket quick-draw drill with rapid point-shooting I'm encountering this difficulty. Though it's my first time out doing such a drill with this weapon the end result was that I started thinking more and more about how reliable my J-frame is. But I like the Kahr more. So, anything outside of improving my technique that can be done (I do note that if I draw and hold the gun lower [contrary to the recommended 'high grasp' which I prefer] this does not pose as much of a problem, if at all). Advice appreciated as to technique AND what could be done mechanically to make it more difficult for magazine to disengage (short of 'glueing' it to the frame hanks |
|
So you know of only one other person who has raised this issue besides you and me? Or is that the general concensus? It would be far better if it had the stiffness of the mag release on my Bersa Thunder 380, for instance. I'll have to call Kahr. When I do, if they tell me anything useful, I'll pass it on here. Thanks for your response. Others welcome. |
|
That's one way of avoiding the problem. Interesting solution! Maybe if I went about living my life that way I could avoid everything and not have to confront problems at all! I could adapt to any situation! You must be school of thought that a person should dress around the gun rather than have the gun adapt to your mode of dress...I am of the latter. We can agree to disagree. I'd rather have some change made in my gun than have to learn to shoot right-handed, though I will eventually do that anyway. But I'm not particularly ambi and that is not solving this design/manufacturing problem. Anyway, I'm not in a good mood this morning. Can one tell? hould Have not heard back from Kahr. Have read on web in older posts that a stronger spring may not exist, but a different release might? (Funny how people don't follow-up on their promises to get back to everyone on various threads scattered throughout the net). All I know's that on at least 4 or 5 successive draws an identical thing happened-gun fired first round in chamber, then magazine dropped to the concrete floor. These occurred during rapid draw from pocket holster to double-handed hold, then point shooting. Quite troubling, disconcerting for me as a southpaw. There's a slight possibility that magazine was not fully seated. I'm going to try same drill later today, before I go trap shooting at the outdoor range. The problem is due to a combination of user error and a design or manufacture 'defect' with not enough tension on that mag release. It needs to be 'toughed-up' somehow. I'm Very pleased with the gun otherwise. It's just less 'user-friendly' to southpaws than others for that reason, IMO. When I say 'others' I'm referring to those autos that are right-handed with no reversible mag release. And, further, this problem has occurred with right-handed shooters as well (see, above, and other posts on internet). Update: I just got off the phone with Kahr. They're sending me a spring replacement that is supposedly stronger so it should make it less likely to drop the magazine. The guy I spoke to said they could not guarantee this would be a complete fix, but that it should prove helpful. BTW, this difficulty did not occur at all prior to commencing these rapid-draw and rapid-fire drills, so perhaps an alteration in the way I grip the firearm and the new spring will suffice. I don't know. |
|
Hey Brent, I'd be worried also. I wouldn't carry a gun unless it's 100% reliable. And the magazine falling out is a big problem. I think it's very good of you to post this problem and then keep us updated with Kahr's reply. It's just another testament to their customer service. Hopefully the new spring will help you out. Good luck! |
|
Hey, Crazy.. Thanks for your comments. I didn't make it out to the range yesterday. Thus, nothing new to report. However, I did read 'Bullseye's Don't Shoot Back'. True point shooting varies from one-handed in very close quarters to two-handed isosocles stance... and never using the sights. When I do go to the range next I'll shoot one-handed and see if I have the same problem. One thing-I really do wish that I were right-handed. I like the gun a lot and somehow feel that perhaps I might not have had such a problem if I were...but there's apparently stories to the contrary on the internet that mag drop-out occurs with right-handed shooters as well people like me. So, if the foregoing is true, at least I'm not being discriminated against on account of my condition as a 'southpaw'. hink |
|
I had a PM9 and it had chronic mag retention problems. I sent it back several times and it got to the point that I had Kahr just send me the parts and I learned to do the fix myself with a dental pick. The quality of the Magazine catch and it's components are "POOR" I suffered repeated defects. The polymer component had a metal piece molded into it to hold the magazine into place. The metal piece flexes or pulls free and then the mag falls out when you fire. Glock uses a polymer mag and full polymer retention device. Because Kahr uses a steel magazine they had to alter the perfect glock design into a Kahr design failure. |
|
I've had two outings with the CW9 since the incident. On one occasion, I went to the outdoor range with two buddies. One was a leftie. So two southpaws and one rightie were at the range that day. No one, including yours truly, experienced mag drop. I should note that I loaded the firearm most of the time, and double-checked the mag was securely locked in its well. On the second occasion, I was at my indoor range, alone. No problems with the mag drop, and I had shot at least 10 mags. It should be noted that most of my firing was one-handed point shooting this time at the indoor range. When I realized the lack of a problem there I switched over to two-handed shooting. The incident has not recurred. I don't have any opinion at this point in the process. In the meantime, Jason over at Kahr sent me another mag catch spring. I have no idea if it is stronger than the regular one-if so, why would it not have been installed in the first place? But he represented it as stronger. Anyway, I have no reason to doubt his word and will bring to my gunsmith tomorrow and have him remove the old spring and install the new one. I'm going that route because I don't want to deal with the hassle and frustration of yours truly trying to reinstall the new spring in light of where it's located...it's a straight wire spring, no coils, embedded somewhat deep in the grip frame. |
So, in your situation, is this now a sometime recurring problem, or has it been solved completely? |
| I did that when I first got mine, my buddy did it too. Then I changed my hold and all is well. Turns out I was holding my thumb over the mag release and upon recoil it pressed it. Shouldn't be holding it like that anyway seeing as I don't shoot my other pistols like that. I have drawn it from an IWB holster repeatedly and have yet to have a problem. I used to hold slide stop on my P6 the same way and it never locked open when the last round was fired. I thought something may be wrong until it occurred to me that my right thumb was riding the slide stop. All firearms are different and if you're going to use it to possibly defend your life you should practice with it until you are familiar with all it's idiosyncrasies (proper spelling believe it or not, don't look like it though). I'm not insulting the OP at all and I apologize if it were to seem that way. I can see though if you were left handed how you could be tripping the mag release as it really doesn't take much to drop the mag. All I can suggest is contacting the manufacturer or try changing your grip until you find a solution. |
|
Problem has not recurred, and Monday my gunsmith switched the original mag release spring with a slighter stronger one sent to me by Kahr. Having my 'smith take care of it was the best ten bucks I've spent in a long while (he only suggested five bucks, but he had to do some tinkering, so I contributed more). I believe there were a number of contributing factors leading to the failures. Inasmuch as I'm left-handed, I'm more likely to place pressure on the release; the location of the release contributed, along with it not requiring much pressure at all to drop the mag. So I believe that operator error, design deficiencies, manufacturing deficiencies, all played a role. As I said, I've never had such a problem with any of my other autos that were designed for right-handed shooters only. Anyway, the release now requires more pressure to drop the magazine. I'm happy about that. I love my Kahr, and feel better carrying it for SD than my J-frame. That's saying a lot! This is in spite of what I' ve experienced that prompted the thread! |