[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Check-Mate Magazines -- Your Take (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/27/2005 2:51:26 PM EDT
|
Everyone has no doubt seen the bad reports on the military-issue Check-Mate magazines for the Beretta M9/92FS. Recently I bought a few from a seller here so that I could see for myself. The ones I received were dated 1996 and had bodies dimensionally identical to my Italian and U.S. Beretta magazines (the metal also seems to be the same gauge). The followers are black plastic and were also identical to current Beretta items. The springs are different in appearance than my Beretta magazines (they look shorter, though I don't know what their compression rate is), but I replaced these with Wolff extra power springs. One magazine (out of five purchased) had a funky "flat" baseplate, similar to the baseplate on SiG P226 magazines. The seam on this baseplate was rather thick and prevented the magazine from properly locking into place without a great deal of force being applied. I wound up shitcanning the baseplate and replaced it with a spare Beretta part. Locking problem solved. (FYI, all magazines were still sealed in the paper.) The biggest thing I noticed was that they were covered, inside and out, with a thick, gritty preservative that seemed to bind up the follower when loading them. Could this have been what has caused the problems overseas? I disassembled the magazines and thoroughly cleaned them with Break Free. I spent the afternoon at the range today and had no problems with any of the magazines. So what's everyone else's experience with them? |
|
The 1996 contract Check-mates are ok, they can be gun finicky and won't latch in on some M9's from my experience with them and none have FTF'd unless the mag isn't latched and it drops down on the 1st -2nd round; nothing that can't be cured by filing the catch slot in mag.. The later 2000-2003 ? rough grey parked contract CM mags are suspect though the one I'am testing has worked 100% so far dust and dirt free. Bought 3 NIW and took one to the range and ran ten full mag loadings without cleaning it first and had no problems or weak spring, it's sitting loaded for a few weeks for more torture testing. Mags left to right; CM 1996, CM 8/03, Beretta Italy, Beretta USA.  
|
|
I agree about the stamped floor plates, The particular CM 96 in the pic would not latch at all in my last issue M9 which is in the shop for waiting for a replacement for a cracked locking block. It will only seat in the M9 in the pic if you wiggle the mag with it fully seated and it works just fine in my Personal 92FS 
|
The difference is between range and actual combat. Your's ran fine at the range, but you had replaced springs, clean out the inside, replaced some parts, and others have had to do filing and fitting to actually get them to run just on the range. Even then, you weren't on top of a tank, in blowing sand kicked up by the other three tracks ahead of you, bouncing around with the gun possibly shifting in your grip constantly, getting shot at. That's really the difference. If you shoot targets at the range, then go to just a simple IDPA match the first time with your stuff, many times you learn a thing or two, and that's still just the range. Go to a class with a major training school with those mags and they might not hold up. That's still the range, and not the level of combat. Look at how much work you put into the mags. A GI doesn't have that luxury, and few know how in the first place. That's why the mags are (or were possbily now) substandard. USGI stuff has to work 100%, out of the box 100% of the time in 100% conditions, not just the range. None of your's meet that standard. You've extensively worked them all over. You still couldn't get one to fit properly without a parts replacement, so that's a failure right there and you've read others' simlar experiences. So you had one mag that was unserviceable right out of the wrapper in how many that you bought? That's not good enough for combat equipment. Factory Beretta mags are only $20 now, so the savings of $5 may be worth it if all you need are range mags, and don't mind mags you have to fit with different parts, file on and otherwise tweek just to get to lock in the pistol. At $15 for Check-mates, they're probably better range mags than most aftermarket mags, but in the end they're still just that. Once you add up the cost of Wolf springs, your time in fiddling with them, and what you have in the end, the "savings" just isn't there. The Army learned what most people already knew. That aftermarket mags aren't as good as factory. You get what you pay for. Ross |
 With the exception of the bad floorplate, none of these mags were any worse than any of my Beretta mags. I've had some of the vaunted "MADE IN ITALY" Beretta mags give me trouble, so I plan on cleaning and replacing the springs automatically. I'm a little curious why the Check-Mates have received as much negative feedback as the Berettas, when they're essentially identical. |
|
SUMMARY OF PROBLEM. NON-CONFORMING M9 PISTOL MAGAZINE CARTRIDGES, NSN 1005-01-204-4376 HAVE BEEN ISSUED TO THE FIELD. THE MAGAZINE FINISH IS CAUSING AMMUNITION TO BIND OR NOT FEED DURING LOADING/FEEDING. B. DEFECTIVE MAGAZINE CARTRIDGES MANUFACTURED BY CHECK-MATE INC, THAT ARE STAMPED WITH A DATE PRIOR TO 02/04 WHICH HAVE A ROUGH OXIDIZED FINISH ARE DEFECTIVE AND SHOULD BE DISPOSED OF IN ACCORDANCE WITH LOCAL DISPOSITION PROCEDURES. C. MAGAZINE CARTRIDGES THAT ARE STAMPED WITH (PB CAL 9 PARA MADE IN USA) AND HAVE A SMOOTH FINISH ARE SERVICEABLE. D. MAGAZINES, CARTRIDGES WITH DATE STAMPED OF 02/04 MANUFACTURED BY CHECK-MATE INC, OR LATER ARE SERVICEABLE. 3. ACTION TAKEN TO DATE: A. ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL (PICA) PURCHASED 54,162 MAGAZINE CARTRIDGES IN FY-04, WHICH HAVE BEEN DISTRIBUTED THROUGH OUT THE MARINE CORPS. B. CURRENTLY, PG-13 INFANTRY WEAPONS SECTION WILL PURCHASE ADDITIONAL MAGAZINES THROUGHOUT FY-05, WHICH WILL BE DISTRIBUTED THROUGH THE DEPOTS AS MAGAZINES BECOME AVAILABLE. 4. ALL ACTION CONCERNING THIS MESSAGE WILL BE ADDRESSED BY THE PM OF INFANTRY WEAPONS. POC IS CAPT XXX XXXXXXXX |
|
No, I consider replacing parts to be extensive.
Cleaning out the preservative is a good idea, and what I would consider cleaning. I also have no doubt that some GI somewhere didn't even do that, with imaginable results. But you have to admit that replacing all the springs (25% of the parts in the mag) and even additional parts as well (in the case of that floorplate, 50% of the parts of the mag) is more than just cleaning.
The point is GIs don't have immeadiate acess to things like Wolf springs and Beretta floorplates. So if you were issued these same mags, and couldn't rework them as you did (i.e. had to use them out of the wrapper, after cleaning the gunk out), would you have been happy? One mag didn't even fit in the gun! And most GI's have no way to fix that really. That's why the bad rep. If you like Checkmates, that's fine. Since you automatically replace springs and fiddle with other parts, they'll save you money. But there shouldn't be any mystery as to why they have a bad reputation, when you took one right out of the wrap and it didn't even fit the gun. Ross |
"SUMMARY OF PROBLEM. NON-CONFORMING M9 PISTOL MAGAZINE CARTRIDGES, NSN 1005-01-204-4376 HAVE BEEN ISSUED TO THE FIELD. THE MAGAZINE FINISH IS CAUSING AMMUNITION TO BIND OR NOT FEED DURING LOADING/FEEDING." BTW, show me where I can readily buy some NIW $20 Beretta factory magazines.
|
Uh, you asked why the bad rep. Are you saying that the fitment issues wouldn't give a bad rep to the mag? You got one that didn't fit in how many mags NIW that you bought? tangent bought some NIW and had one that wouldn't fit either. If you were issued the mags you bought, and did nothing to them, would you have been happy with all of them?
MDS mags, which are factory Beretta (check Beretta website if you have doubts) Heck, brand new Mec-gars are $26 MSRP on the Mec-gar website, and that's MSRP not street price. That's without even looking for a deal. Ross |
Mec-Gars for a Beretta? Don't think so. Mec-Gar makes some good stuff, but their Beretta magazines leave a little to be desired.
|
Like I said, you get what you pay for, and I paid $20 each (OK you win it's 20.67, big difference) $20.67 for 15rd MDS mags (I've been a club member for years). You'll have to pay shipping on the Check-mates as well. No matter, online sales have a online coupon that also pays for shipping. I just ordered 4 of them, total price=$83.67 to my door (I paid an extra .99 for faster shipping). Check-mates= $15($30 for four+$5 shipping), and Wolf mag springs at 17.29 for a three pack so 4 would be another $23.04 plus shipping from them (let's just throw that in, though you will pay for it in the real world) and we have $88.04 for four of Check-mates. 88.04-83.67=$4.37 less for factory mags. Or over a dollar less for a factory mag. That's not counting the time to clean out the crap, replace the springs and whatever parts and the cost of those parts. You won't get the bonus of knowing that some of your mags won't fit right out of the wrapper (out of how many you bought?), and you totally avoid the issue of the finnish on the junk mags. Look if you want to pay more in the end for junk mags that are rejects, knock yourself out. If you automatically replace mag springs, then yeah, you'll still be under the factory price. You get what you pay for. |
I wound up paying a little over $18 each for my Check-Mates -- INCLUDING new springs. Do you have any real experience with Check-Mate magazines, or do you only deal in hypotheticals?
|
|
Good for you. Neither of us paid for shipping. You brought shipping costs up in the first place.
That was factored in on the first purchase I bought on this year's membership (Walther P99 mag and two MDS twenty round mags, and a bunch of other gear). With the membership I've saved well over three times the cost of the membership this year alone on my purchases from SG. If you spread it out over everything, I suppose it might add a penny to the four 15rd mags I bought. As with any membership deal, you work it so it works for you.
Yes, I used them in the Army. They are junk. Do you really think a mag not fitting properly right out of the wrap, in the small number of mags that you bought, is a sign of quality manufacture? Do you really think if they were good, the DoD wouldn't be replacing over 54,000 of them? Do you really think a quality mag requires you to replace all the springs and some parts out of the wrapper?
And I paid a little over two dollars more for factory mags that I don't need to replace the springs in, nor fiddle with to get to fit in the gun. I spent ZERO time fixing them. You're right, you got a GREAT Deal.......  I'll leave you alone, there's no hope. Ross |
Maybe in Bizarro.
|
OK then, then I guess I dont understand the point of this conversation. |
|
|
Buying extra power springs for a check-mate magazine, to me, would be a last resort. Running a stiff brush or 3M pad through the mag to burnish/smooth the interior finish can be done, if there was a problem feeding...doubtful while plinking at the range under ideal conditions. Testing some well worn police magazine springs, perhaps about only 3/4 of their original length, proved to be no problem, again for range use. I did have a used factory mag hard chromed, with no polishing, and it felt like a file going into the magwell. Between the added thickness and the rough finish, that was not a great idea, but it does smooth it up for the other magazines. For plinking or range use, check-mates for the right price are fine with me...but they are sure ugly for use in an INOX 92 though. |
I took some extra fine metal sanding sandpaper and worked the parkerizing on the inside of the mags down to a smooth finish. Just for precaution, I replaced the orginal springs because the magazines were used. No problems after that. |
How about this, you say you replaced the floorplate because of your choice. Had you not made that "choice" your mags would not function. The troops these were issued to don't have that choice.
Therefore those mags are not good enough to be issued, that is one of the problems. Other than the floorplate and the spring though, your right these are obviously A+ top quality mags. Well the bodies anyways. Anytime you can refute the obvious point we are trying to make, just let me know. |
One of my main complaints about the floorplate was its aesthetics -- it looked like shit. As previously posted, anytime you're ready to add something substantive to the discussion, just let me know. 
|
You said yourself the mag didn't latch right until you changed it. YOU said that not me. And you say I have a learning disability? Wow.
|
That doesn't claim that it was "unserviceable." If you knew anything about these, you'd KNOW that the flat floorplate is actually preferred by the GIs for its durability. Anytime, troll.
|
If it doesn't latch because of a manufacturing defect, then it's unservicable for a troop who can't "service" it himself if I was issued a mag that didn't latch I'd go to the armory and get a new one, because in case you didn't know guys in Iraq can't really place an order with cabelas like you can
Thanks for proving what a petty dumb-fuck you really are. BTW why don't you refute what I "POST" instead of playing word games? Oh right because your an idiot who can't admit he's wrong.
Sorry I haven't been issued one in a few years. |
|
|
Yeah that was awhile back though. Anyways, I supplied mine how about yours? Or better yet, explain to me why these mags are good enough for combat troops? Or shall we just go farther off topic? BTW I'm not trying to impress anybody, you're the one who asked, remember? |
You may have the last word.
|
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Check-Mate Magazines -- Your Take (Page 1 of 2)
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.