[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FBI Sig P 320 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/28/2015 8:34:06 AM EDT
| Is the FBI going with the Sig P 320 in 9mm ? Its a package that fits what they want, also I hear good reports on the P 320 |
| Since they just started the process I would think it will be well into next year until they finish testing. They have to get the guns from the manufactures, conduct the evaluation and then make a selection. I think the 320 is a strong contender. Also the FNS looks like it meets most of the requirements. Who knows maybe Glock will mold a gen 4 frame without finger gooves and submit a weapon. For a multi million dollar contract you never know what manufactures will step up to. David |
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...maybe Glock will mold a gen 4 frame without finger gooves and submit a weapon... Seems like it would be crazy easy for them to do this. I expect they will. I don't think it would need to actually be a Gen5 unless they make more changes than just that. There could easily be a run of 17/19 Gen4 guns with no finger grooves. |
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Not a chance in hell.
They are basically an all Glock organization. 9mm transition is on hold because HQ doesn't want to waste taxpayer money replacing perfectly functioning .40s with 9mms, which is essentially the reverse of what happened when they moved from Glock to Sig. They would have to retrain all the armorers, dump millions of dollars in parts and mags, etc. Not to mention there isn't a world in which HRT and the SWAT program moves away from Glocks. |
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Not a chance in hell. They are basically an all Glock organization. 9mm transition is on hold because HQ doesn't want to waste taxpayer money replacing perfectly functioning .40s with 9mms, which is essentially the reverse of what happened when they moved from Glock to Sig. They would have to retrain all the armorers, dump millions of dollars in parts and mags, etc. Not to mention there isn't a world in which HRT and the SWAT program moves away from Glocks. I wish this was the case but you know how are govt waste money. FBI concluded no advantage in caliber so why change or why not start doing X number of change overs and spread it out over a decade. Or only change over one branch at a time. |
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This is the RFP from the FBI if you want to read it.
Here are some thoughts I had after reading it. The magazine catch shall be activated by depressing the catch with a lateral movement by the shooter’s thumb/finger.
It is not allowable to have a magazine catch which is activated by a downward movement. Firing pin/Striker fired only. GRIP SAFETY
None allowed. FRAME/RECEIVER
Frames which allow for different hand sizes are required. Regardless of how each Contractor accommodates different hand sizes they must be able to support at least 3 sizes commonly referred to as small, medium and large. Two acceptable methods of accommodating for different hand sizes are: Multiple Frame Sizes Two alternate sizes must be available and supplied with each pistol. Grip/Frame Inserts Two alternate sizes must be available and supplied with each pistol. Slide must fully cover the barrel (with the exception of the chamber portion of the barrel) allowing for no more than 0.25” of the muzzle to be exposed |
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We're going to see a ton of new pistols by SHOT to compete for the Army's MHS contract. Is suspect that we'll see those same guns also fit the FBIs contract requirements. Unofficial confirmations of a new FN pistol, a Gen 5 Glock, and a Gen 2 M&P all have been hinted it by those in the know. That's in addition to the P320 and the announced but unreleased Beretta APX.
At THIS TIME only the P320 is off the shelf capable of fulfilling the contract. However, until the new pistols are formally unveiled no one has any clue as to who will Be eligible (probably all of them) and until the competition is concluded the entire arguement is populated by people hoping their favorite will win. Frankly, I think all 5 will be quality choices. However you look at it, since the P320 and VP9 hit the market, the handgun market has started to change and will continue to evolve significantly because of these 2 major contracts. |
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Exactly. The RFP was absolutely written for Glock, and to try to get them to make some minor changes along the way.
G17 is already approved and issued in small numbers (poor shooters, HRT, SWAT). The RFP could go nowhere and you could still see a total conversion to G19 and G17. Again, to reiterate, word passing around federal agencies (including .mil) is that the whole conversion is DRT, because none of the idiots running their firearms unit bothered to get HQ approval of the upteen millions it would cost to reissue new weapons to every swinging dick. Apparently there are actually people in that agency (at the top) who care about how they spend taxpayer money, and, just possibly, think that this isn't the best political timing to focus media attention on a new firearms platform and the "best" caliber for dropping bad guys. |
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Exactly. The RFP was absolutely written for Glock, and to try to get them to make some minor changes along the way. G17 is already approved and issued in small numbers (poor shooters, HRT, SWAT). The RFP could go nowhere and you could still see a total conversion to G19 and G17. Again, to reiterate, word passing around federal agencies (including .mil) is that the whole conversion is DRT, because none of the idiots running their firearms unit bothered to get HQ approval of the upteen millions it would cost to reissue new weapons to every swinging dick. Apparently there are actually people in that agency (at the top) who care about how they spend taxpayer money, and, just possibly, think that this isn't the best political timing to focus media attention on a new firearms platform and the "best" caliber for dropping bad guys. The Glock contract is from 1998. Guns wear out just like any thing else and need replaced. Spending money on replacement equipment is not an issue. Remember this will be a multi year contract to buy new guns when the old ones are removed from service. Before Glock the FBI was an all Sig Agency. Nothing is certain until a contract is awarded. David |
| I hope they stick with Glock because that SIG320 has a silly high bore line compared to a Glock, Ruger, or M&P. The rocking motion the extra hieght induces does nothing to help speed or recoil recovery. Same silly system design other SIGs used in the past that made my P220 miserable to shoot more than 1-200 rounds at a time and made a P226 slower than necessary. |
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I hope they stick with Glock because that SIG320 has a silly high bore line compared to a Glock, Ruger, or M&P. The rocking motion the extra hieght induces does nothing to help speed or recoil recovery. Same silly system design other SIGs used in the past that made my P220 miserable to shoot more than 1-200 rounds at a time and made a P226 slower than necessary. 
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I hope they stick with Glock because that SIG320 has a silly high bore line compared to a Glock, Ruger, or M&P. The rocking motion the extra hieght induces does nothing to help speed or recoil recovery. Same silly system design other SIGs used in the past that made my P220 miserable to shoot more than 1-200 rounds at a time and made a P226 slower than necessary. I typed and deleted a response to the typical "high bore axis"... I guess pointing and laughing is actually an easier and just as effective response. I like your style 
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I typed and deleted a response to the typical "high bore axis"... I guess pointing and laughing is actually an easier and just as effective response. I like your style Quoted:
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I hope they stick with Glock because that SIG320 has a silly high bore line compared to a Glock, Ruger, or M&P. The rocking motion the extra hieght induces does nothing to help speed or recoil recovery. Same silly system design other SIGs used in the past that made my P220 miserable to shoot more than 1-200 rounds at a time and made a P226 slower than necessary. I typed and deleted a response to the typical "high bore axis"... I guess pointing and laughing is actually an easier and just as effective response. I like your style Logic and well explained responses fail to fix some peoples wrong opinions, so I choose to laugh as well. |
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Logic and well explained responses fail to fix some peoples wrong opinions, so I choose to laugh as well. Quoted:
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I hope they stick with Glock because that SIG320 has a silly high bore line compared to a Glock, Ruger, or M&P. The rocking motion the extra hieght induces does nothing to help speed or recoil recovery. Same silly system design other SIGs used in the past that made my P220 miserable to shoot more than 1-200 rounds at a time and made a P226 slower than necessary. I typed and deleted a response to the typical "high bore axis"... I guess pointing and laughing is actually an easier and just as effective response. I like your style Logic and well explained responses fail to fix some peoples wrong opinions, so I choose to laugh as well. 
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Good jokes are always fun.
But what wasn't fun was shooting a P220 3-400 times in a morning and wishing you had never seen the thing even though it was light to carry and usually worked. Worked 100% unless the guys at Federal loaded the 230 Hydra Shoks a few thousanths short. Then the top round of 8+1 always nose dived when you fired the first shot. Which meant that if the test box worked in each new case, you hid the case from anyone else. If it didn't work, Federal replaced the case. None of which accounted for my frame breaking and being replaced at a few thousand rounds. The high bore line SIGs today are probably well made but are an ancient '70's design that realy needs a bore line lowering. Just look at the pictures above of the plastic guns. Same design as the aluminum ones. Just made outta plastic.     One of each line. Post less, shoot more, report accurately. 
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In 2015 I've shot a little bit...
Total Pistol rds: 4,917 rds + Total Rifle rds: 1,226 rds Total Shotgun rds: 290 Total .22lr: 417 (mostly with the kids) Mostly Sig's, a Glock 23 (buddies in 9mm and 40), 1911's... I sand bagged a few months here and there as well... but all rounds were shot in a training fashion
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1748304_The_Official_Drill_of_the_Week___LAV_s_Delta_Standard__The_Test_open_11_26___12_6.html |
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I hope they stick with Glock because that SIG320 has a silly high bore line compared to a Glock, Ruger, or M&P. The rocking motion the extra hieght induces does nothing to help speed or recoil recovery. Same silly system design other SIGs used in the past that made my P220 miserable to shoot more than 1-200 rounds at a time and made a P226 slower than necessary. Nothing wrong with Sig, if you like a gun that points like a hair dryer. 
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This is the RFP from the FBI if you want to read it. <snip> FRAME/RECEIVER
Frames which allow for different hand sizes are required. Regardless of how each Contractor accommodates different hand sizes they must be able to support at least 3 sizes commonly referred to as small, medium and large. Two acceptable methods of accommodating for different hand sizes are: Multiple Frame Sizes Two alternate sizes must be available and supplied with each pistol. Grip/Frame Inserts Two alternate sizes must be available and supplied with each pistol. <snip> Massive waste of money. 2/3s will be wasted whether inserts or entire grip modules. What's the DOJ Waste, Fraud , and Abuse Hotline number? |
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Sig has the 320 and it's generally pretty darned good. Beretta has the APX (did I remember that right?) which is the Beretta version of the Sig 320 with all the modularity features, in what looks to be a bit better of a package. S&W has said they will have a "next version" of the M&P that will meet the requirements of the US Army's Modular Handgun Competition. Detonix has their modular/striker fired 1911-ish thing they've submitted to the Army, unknown if they'll submit to the FBI as well.
The Army has flatly said no to the M9A3 and thus far they seem quite committed to the Modular Handgun concept; and I hope they stay committed. I really think the modularity is the future of handguns in the world of CNC manufacturing and 3D printing. Let's do this and see where it goes; ought to be really interesting. Glock has been pretty quiet on the Modular Handgun program, they never even submitted a pistol for pre-evaluation...don't know if they're going to go after it. Kinda hard to imagine them passing up the opportunity. My bet is it will come down to Sig, S&W, and Beretta. At this point, I wouldn't count any of them out. |
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Good jokes are always fun. But what wasn't fun was shooting a P220 3-400 times in a morning and wishing you had never seen the thing even though it was light to carry and usually worked. Worked 100% unless the guys at Federal loaded the 230 Hydra Shoks a few thousanths short. Then the top round of 8+1 always nose dived when you fired the first shot. Which meant that if the test box worked in each new case, you hid the case from anyone else. If it didn't work, Federal replaced the case. None of which accounted for my frame breaking and being replaced at a few thousand rounds. The high bore line SIGs today are probably well made but are an ancient '70's design that realy needs a bore line lowering. Just look at the pictures above of the plastic guns. Same design as the aluminum ones. Just made outta plastic. One of each line. Post less, shoot more, report accurately. I have a Sig P220 on the way. Does the .45 put more stress on the frame than the P series 9mm? |
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Massive waste of money. 2/3s will be wasted whether inserts or entire grip modules. What's the DOJ Waste, Fraud , and Abuse Hotline number? Quoted:
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This is the RFP from the FBI if you want to read it. <snip> FRAME/RECEIVER
Frames which allow for different hand sizes are required. Regardless of how each Contractor accommodates different hand sizes they must be able to support at least 3 sizes commonly referred to as small, medium and large. Two acceptable methods of accommodating for different hand sizes are: Multiple Frame Sizes Two alternate sizes must be available and supplied with each pistol. Grip/Frame Inserts Two alternate sizes must be available and supplied with each pistol. <snip> Massive waste of money. 2/3s will be wasted whether inserts or entire grip modules. What's the DOJ Waste, Fraud , and Abuse Hotline number? |
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<a href="http://s55.photobucket.com/user/zac_squatch/media/CEE6DF12-1438-4400-BD18-64AA8E79FC26_zpszg9ur9p6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g155/zac_squatch/CEE6DF12-1438-4400-BD18-64AA8E79FC26_zpszg9ur9p6.jpg</a> Just got 3 more today too, another SC and 2 fullsize mags. It sucks for you cali guys with them not offering 10 round subcompact mags from the factory. Quoted:
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Maybe the FBI will have any easier time buying spare mags than the rest of us. 
<a href="http://s55.photobucket.com/user/zac_squatch/media/CEE6DF12-1438-4400-BD18-64AA8E79FC26_zpszg9ur9p6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g155/zac_squatch/CEE6DF12-1438-4400-BD18-64AA8E79FC26_zpszg9ur9p6.jpg</a> Just got 3 more today too, another SC and 2 fullsize mags. It sucks for you cali guys with them not offering 10 round subcompact mags from the factory. Does this picture screw with anyone else's eyes? sweet pic, but ugh. |
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Nothing wrong with Sig, if you like a gun that points like a hair dryer.
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I hope they stick with Glock because that SIG320 has a silly high bore line compared to a Glock, Ruger, or M&P. The rocking motion the extra hieght induces does nothing to help speed or recoil recovery. Same silly system design other SIGs used in the past that made my P220 miserable to shoot more than 1-200 rounds at a time and made a P226 slower than necessary. Nothing wrong with Sig, if you like a gun that points like a hair dryer.
AGH! Blasphemy! Burn the heretic!
Seriously, I shoot my P228 better than any of my handguns with the slight exception of my 1911s. BTW- That Beretta is FUGLY! I thought my VP9 was a bit of a mutant but that thing looks  .
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Why does the frame look all misshapen and the slide looks like it is listing to one side of the frame? Quoted:
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Maybe Beretta's APX might sneak in. Why does the frame look all misshapen and the slide looks like it is listing to one side of the frame? Probably because it's a prototype one-off |
| I picked up the 320 compact with nite sights about 2 weeks ago its been flawless just ran maybe 110 rounds today and 100 last week Tula, perfecta , Gold dot no problem . This 320 came packed with white grease of some kind looked like tetra maybe . I clean alot out before I used it but its still lubed good. |
| I picked up the 320 compact with nite sights about 2 weeks ago its been flawless just ran maybe 110 rounds today and 100 last week Tula, perfecta , Gold dot no problem . This 320 came packed with white grease of some kind looked like tetra maybe . I clean alot out before I used it but its still lubed good. |
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I picked up the 320 compact with nite sights about 2 weeks ago its been flawless just ran maybe 110 rounds today and 100 last week Tula, perfecta , Gold dot no problem . This 320 came packed with white grease of some kind looked like tetra maybe . I clean alot out before I used it but its still lubed good. TW25b TW25b and Sig GreyGuns Greasing Guidelines |
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Good jokes are always fun. But what wasn't fun was shooting a P220 3-400 times in a morning and wishing you had never seen the thing even though it was light to carry and usually worked. Worked 100% unless the guys at Federal loaded the 230 Hydra Shoks a few thousanths short. Then the top round of 8+1 always nose dived when you fired the first shot. Which meant that if the test box worked in each new case, you hid the case from anyone else. If it didn't work, Federal replaced the case. None of which accounted for my frame breaking and being replaced at a few thousand rounds. The high bore line SIGs today are probably well made but are an ancient '70's design that realy needs a bore line lowering. Just look at the pictures above of the plastic guns. Same design as the aluminum ones. Just made outta plastic.
One of each line. Post less, shoot more, report accurately. Quit bitching. That 220 is nothing compared to a 1076.
I miss my 228. That APX is fudgly.
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Some things that look very promising about the Beretta APX.
1 - Notice the subtle palm swell to the grip, I'm betting it has really great ergonomics. 2 - Trigger face is flat, and it appears it's going to have a very short throw. 3 - Axis to the bore, grip is much higher than the Sig (which is a major oversight on Sig's part IMO) The issue is, the Beretta is in the conceptual stage at this point, and the Sig is in full production in all 4 versions, in all 3 calibers; Sig is WAY ahead of Beretta. But Beretta tends to get things right, and I'm sure the APX will be a good pistol, but do they have the time to get it right. One thing's for sure, they're ahead of S&W who hasn't even revealed their M&P version 2.0. |
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3 - Axis to the bore, grip is much higher than the Sig (which is a major oversight on Sig's part IMO) It's to be expected from a striker fired adaptation of a hammer-fired handgun. Whether it really makes a difference, I'm not sure, but it's worth noting. |
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Quoted: It takes ugly pistol to a whole new level, its hideous. Not to mention it looks incredibly cheap, look at those sights and backplate Quoted: Quoted: Maybe Beretta's APX might sneak in. It takes ugly pistol to a whole new level, its hideous. Not to mention it looks incredibly cheap, look at those sights and backplate |
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It takes ugly pistol to a whole new level, its hideous. Not to mention it looks incredibly cheap, look at those sights and backplate Quoted:
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Maybe Beretta's APX might sneak in. It takes ugly pistol to a whole new level, its hideous. Not to mention it looks incredibly cheap, look at those sights and backplate Agreed it's aesthetically unappealing and looks like a Taurus guy designed it, but the basic outline and ergonomics look promising. However, it IS a prototype that was shown 6 months ago. There will be some changes to it, hopefully that includes the aesthetic details. |
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I hope they stick with Glock because that SIG320 has a silly high bore line compared to a Glock, Ruger, or M&P. The rocking motion the extra hieght induces does nothing to help speed or recoil recovery. Same silly system design other SIGs used in the past that made my P220 miserable to shoot more than 1-200 rounds at a time and made a P226 slower than necessary. Seriously? You had a miserable time shooting your P220? Then I would respectfully suggest you switch to a 22 of some form. |
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I have a Sig P220 on the way. Does the .45 put more stress on the frame than the P series 9mm? Quoted:
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Good jokes are always fun. But what wasn't fun was shooting a P220 3-400 times in a morning and wishing you had never seen the thing even though it was light to carry and usually worked. Worked 100% unless the guys at Federal loaded the 230 Hydra Shoks a few thousanths short. Then the top round of 8+1 always nose dived when you fired the first shot. Which meant that if the test box worked in each new case, you hid the case from anyone else. If it didn't work, Federal replaced the case. None of which accounted for my frame breaking and being replaced at a few thousand rounds. The high bore line SIGs today are probably well made but are an ancient '70's design that realy needs a bore line lowering. Just look at the pictures above of the plastic guns. Same design as the aluminum ones. Just made outta plastic. One of each line. Post less, shoot more, report accurately. I have a Sig P220 on the way. Does the .45 put more stress on the frame than the P series 9mm? The P220 is what Sig originally imported into the US back in the 70's. The gun is fine unless you start shooting regular diet of +p and +p+ ammp through it, and in that case, you should go with the P220 Stainless. |