[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Getting a Browning HP.. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/23/2007 6:10:38 AM EDT
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After researching a bit and using one, I've decided that I want a Browning HP as my 1st pistol. I still have a few questions about it though. I didn't get bitten by the hammer, but I'm not sure if it was modified or not -it didn't look like it, but how often do people have an issue with the factory hammer? The MKIII I used was chambered in 9mm and I liked the mild recoil and clip capacity, but am wondering if I should get the .40 instead because of the better knock-down power. I'll be in college this year, so money might be an issue, especially when I have a hungry M1A. Does the .40S&W have considerably more knock-down power than the 9mm? Also, does it have a lot more kick than the 9mm (I've never used a .40)? Kick isn't an issue -I like using .44 mags- ,I'm just curious. I'm looking to spend about $450-550 on it, so I guess that rules out the MKIII and the Practical and am limited to an 80's one? |
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well, i've never had much trouble w/ my factory hammer and hammer bite on my BHP 2nd, its "magazines (mags)", not 'clips'  next, there is no such thing as 'knock down power'; and, FWIW: w/ modern, quality JHPs, there is little ballistic diff btw .40sw and 9mm...h/w, i would attribute most .40sw loads for having a tad better ballistics this may help w/ determining which you would prefer ETA: + 1 for a 9mm BHP |
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Mostly the people who have problems with hammer bite are old 1911 shooters who let their thumb ride the top of the safety. I would pass on the .40 and stay with the 9mm. It's easier to shoot and cheaper, plus the 9mm HPs seem to be more desirable. And 9mm is plenty effective enough for self-defense; it doesn't give up much to .40. |
Good choice. The 40 offers no advantage over the 9mm, and considering the price of ammo, the 9mm is a much better option.
I don't have a problem with hammer bite (my thumb rides on top of the safety), but I have medium-small sized hands. If you have large hands you could have a problem, but a no bite hammer mod should fix this.
Look in the classifieds. I haven't spent more than $500 on any of my LNIB BHPs. My Practical was $400 with 4 factory mags. Keep looking and you'll find a deal. Make sure to read this if you are buying used. If you want a new one, Bud's has the MKIII for $640. My first handgun was also the 9mm BHP. Almost 2 years later, I have 5 of them. Simply a beautiful pistol. |
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I've got an Belgian High Power that I bought new about 28 years ago, it was one of the first guns I ever bought and I've still got it. It's a fixed sight, blue, spur hammer, wood grip pistol. I've got big hands and the spur hammer has never touched me. Get it in 9mm, I've heard stories that the High Power really isn't strong enough for a steady diet of hot .40's and .40 isn't worth the added expense and recoil for the small difference in power. Funny coincidence, I went to the range today and shot my High Power, the first time in a few months. The High Power is one of the sweetest auto pistols ever made, so comfortable in the hand, so easy to lay shot after shot in the black. Fantastic pistol, everyone should have at least one. |
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Don't worry about "knock down power" as this really doesn't exist when it comes to pistols. All pistols calibers, using modern JHP designs, have almost equal performance. Buy the pistol you can use best and then practice, practice, practice. What use is having a bigger caliber if you can't hit anything with it. FWIW, I have a 9mm BHP and I am quite happy with it. I shoot well with it and like its 13+1 capacity. Oh, and by the way, I did have the hammer shank relieved, because it was 'pinching' the web of my hand. Don Williams did a good job of making the hammer shank thinner so it wouldn't 'bite.' 
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Wow! You guys have some really nice looking Hi-Powers, especially that Israeli one that flannagan_bryan has and urbankaos04's is nice too. I think I want to get a MKIII and some cocobolo grips for it so it could look like this: http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w75/dellcar89/HP.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w75/dellcar89/HP3.jpg |
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Just to add what other have said... a BHP\P35 is a great choice in firearm. There is no good reason to select a .40S&W over the 9mm. I have yet to see one valid test that proves that the .40 is anymore effective then the 9mm in real use. All the .40 buys you is more recoil, more expensive ammo and less capacity. As far as hammer bite, I did have that problem and I'm not an old 1911 shooter. I am a Glock shooter so yes I do like to hold the pistol as high in my grip as possible. Fear not because bob'ing the hammer yourself is not that hard. If you are lazy, leave the hammer in and use a dremel and a file to profile the hammer to your desire. You really don't need to remove a lot. Once you're done, at little cold blueing works fine to make it look new. As far as what to buy? I suggest you keep your eyes open for a FN HP. Same exact gun as the "Browning" stamped versions but typically sell for less. I would suggest a standard MKIII model but older models are nice too. I believe there are a couple of FN HP MKIII's for sale on the EE right now. |
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Congrats on the new BHP. RE Grip - if this is to ever possibly be a defensive handgun (home) or a CCW gun, please learn to grip it properly by keeping your thumb ON TOP of the safety while shooting (See Todd Jarrett video linked at top of page for a "how to" on grip). For general BHP and CZ info, do a google search on "Stephen A Camp" |
+1 Bought my MkIII in college. 1989 manufacture, $500 out the door in the case with 2 mags. Come to think of it, that might have been the only fairly priced pistol in the whole shop.  
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| I got a kick ass deal on a CDNN FN Hi-Power awhile back. What's funny is that FN's sell at a lower price point even though it's the same damn pistol. I guess the Browning name has more brand recognition, which translates into a higher prices. But, to tell you the truth, I like the stock FN pistol more than the stock Browning. Woulda tricked out my FN pistol instead, but i bought the BHP first. |
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First off let me tell you that I've owned a BHP in both 9mm and .40 cal. Unlike most of the people who have replied here, I have actually tried to kill with a 9mm. 1. Guys that have been to the sandbox have not found the 9mm adequate. The Pentagon agrees, and is moving away from it. 2. Many police departments have switched away from 9mm due to poor performance. 2. If you would settle for a 9mm for self defense, you'd be just as well served with a .22 rimfire. It's that useless. 3. Yes, the 9 is cheaper to shoot and recoil is lighter. If you are just looking for something to shoot paper with at the range, 9 is fine. If your life is on the line, a nine will not do. I went with the .40. Recoil is heavier but the BHP is heavy enought that it's still comfortable to shoot. I'll be the lone voice in favor of the .40!!! |
What a steaming load of BS  1. To my knowledge, most of the military boys in the sandbox have had little training with a pistol (at least compared to their rifle training) so many of them are not very good shots with their pistols. 2. Boys in the sandbox are stuck with FMJ ball ammo. We are not. Modern HP technology rounds are head and shoulders above FMJ rounds of the same caliber. 3. Do not blame your failure to kill a threat on the ammo. It's not the instrument, its the person playing it unless you have an autopsy report indicating otherwise. 4. There was an article about a year or so ago that I wish I had saved. It was from a contractor over in the sandbox. He was a self admitted 1911\.45ACP guy but knowing that .45ACP would not be easy to acquire over there, decided instead to carry a BHP and feed it the standard NATO issue 9mm ball ammo. Much to his surprise, he found he had no problems at all stopping threats with that combo with no more then 1-2 hits COM per target. If carrying a .40 helps you sleep better at night then more power to you but do us all a favor and quit spouting BS about the 9mm being no different then a .22 or that the .40 has some huge advantage over the 9mm. |
On of the best gun sites on the 'net, IMO. Made it hot. www.hipowersandhandguns.com |
Thanks to you both for the site reference & also making it hot linked. BHPs are great; I am a CZ nut personally. Both great guns that have MUCH in common. |
Another reason as to why I picked the 9mm is because my dad plans on buying a Colt XSE in .45 around the same time (the end of the year), so that would take care of home defense hink. |
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Got two . . A Mkl and a Mk III. Both get shot -- a lot ! ! Mk III gets carried as a CCW every now and then. Shoots like a 22. Stick with the 9mm -- that's what is was designed for. Use good, quailty HP ammo -- I like the 124 grain flavor. If you do your part, you'll always be safe with a HP in your hand . . . . . |
Jesus A. Christ! What a load of hooey! You need to read up on Doctor Roberts work on Tactical Forums. Jeez! Here, take a look at this, read it and learn: Ballistics Lecture--READ IT BEFORE POSTING AGAIN! |
I'm going to contribute to the incoming dogpile. 1) I was issued an M9 in the following: Just Cause, ODS, Restore Hope, Uphold Democracy, and KFOR. I never, not once, fired it at an enemy combatant. That's what rifles (and Bushmasters, and arty, and ...) are for. To be totally honest, a pistol is such a last-ditch weapon (for anything other than SF) that I'd rather have capacity than a round which was "more effective" (which it's not). 2) Links, please. #2, 2) Yeah, whatever. 3) Yeah, whatever. ETA: I can imagine where, in a military application, a .45 is superior to a 9mm. I could be wrong, but I imagine with the increasing utilization of supressed weapons, where there is a velocity "ceiling", the heavier bullet would be superior. I.e., since they have to travel at the same speed for sound supression purposes, a heavier bullet will be more effective. I could be wrong, but it seems like a real advantage, albeit one with limited applications. |
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Funny that I know cops OCONUS who gear up every day and go into their 'street wars' armed only with 9mm handguns loaded with 115 / 124gr FMJ. Not the 'best' round available, for sure, but it will get the job done if the shooter does his part. I agree, the HP is one helluva handgun and is best as designed...in 9mm. |
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Good choice. Stick with the 9mm, the .40 ruins the HP. I would just get a MKIII or Practical (Browning or FN) but the older ones are good too. If you find a FM for a good deal they are pretty darn good too. Don't bother with the FEG, Indian or Charles Daly unless you can't afford a better one. Also the Arcus 94 Bulgarians are solid but not exactly like a original HP. If you have an issue with hammer bite (I did) you can reshape the stock hammer (thin it a little like the earlier poster mentioned), use a Cylinder and Slide hammer or have a gunsmith weld on a beavertail (much more $$$). I'm working the stock hammer on my FM. The Navdirex grips are nice, I have them on mine. |
Are your Navidrex grips the palmswell type? I wanted the Phillipine Mahogany on mine, but they dont come in the thin combat style
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There's something beautiful about a gun that looks like it isn't afraid of a little hard work.  What is that finish?
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Is this the article? www.gunweek.com/2005/feature0910.html |
| the .40 has more "knockdown power", in that it creates a bigger hole, and has more energy behind it. it is more powerful than 9mm there is no way around it. some pople might say that it doesnt make a difference and that 9mm will kill you just fine. I would rather have the extra edge of the .40 if my life depended on it. |
I understand your opinion, but, in reality, the 9mm, .40 and .45, with "good JHPs" have about the same terminal performance. What is more important, at least to me, is being proficient with whatever platform gun/caliber you decide to go with. It would do me no good to have a 1911 and be a crappy shot than to just have a nine but be able to deliver hits when I needed to. So, if having a .40 gives you an "mental edge" then by all means go for it, but just make sure you are proficient enough with that pistol/caliber to make it count when you need it to. Here's an excerpt from a posting from Doctor Gary Roberts: As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm . And this: Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios And: The keys are: -- Cultivate a warrior mindset -- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice -- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system -- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance. |
Yes, thanks. The link I had to the article on another site died. Here's the meat of it as it relates to this thread... "Many disparage the 9mm’s stopping power, and knowing that only military “ball” ammunition was available, I asked if this had been a problem. Spook said that it hadn’t. He knows what some of the gun magazine chest-beaters claim in print, and admits that he hasn’t shot any blocks of ballistic gelatin. He has shot eight men with the nine, though, and all went down with center thorax hits. One or two shots sufficed, if well placed. Spook knows that others have complained about the nine, and wonders where they hit their opponents. He has talked with a couple of tank crewmen who shot Iraqis off their huge armored mounts, and they seemed satisfied, too. The Browning worked fine, and so did the Beretta M9 that he wore in 2003, provided that one used only genuine Beretta magazines. Cheap spare magazines from other manufacturers might fail." It is funny that American's are so brain washed into believing bigger is always better and that the .45ACP is king. So much so that even this guy, with as much sucess as he had using 9mm (even w/ Mil Ball ammo) still goes on to say later that he still wished he had something bigger. Basically "Yes chuck, even through my 9mm worked perfectly, I still wish I carried something bigger, heavier and with less capacity" (Not a direct quote) 
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thats some dumb shit right thar!
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