Posted: 11/6/2005 3:40:07 PM EDT
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I'm going to be getting my CCW soon and I'm looking for a method of carrying my Glock 30 in my waist band. I got onto www.botac.com and saw the ClipDraw for the Glock. I like the idea, but it looks kind of shady to me. It seems to me that the angle of carry would be near impossible to keep constant unless you wore your belt kind of tight, and I don't know about the trigger being so exposed. I'd be a little paranoid of putting a second orifice into my rear end. Also, I don't know about taking the back plate off of my Glock slide. I don't want to void my warranty or anything. Does anyone have any first hand experience they can share about the clip? Any help would be appreciated. And if your opinion is against the clip, can you steer me toward a good holster? Thanks. |
| I have a Clipdraw on a G27. Installation is really simple. Removing the back piece is very easy and I can't imagine it voiding the warranty. If something that simple voids the warranty then you might as well never disassemble it to give it a real good cleaning. If you are going to carry often for CCW, I would recommend getting yourself a good IWB holster instead of the Clipdraw. The Clipdraw works fine for casual carry from time to time but if I were going to carry the pistol often, I would get a holster. |
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i tried a clip draw years ago. After a week or so when i took my 27 off and saw that the clip was only hanging on by ONE barely screw. I threw that POS in the trash. The other screw had stripped the threading on the back plate and fallen out who knows when and the screw that was left was in the process of doing the same. Just buy yourself a IWB holster. J |
i have been using the clip draw for about 3 years, very happy with it, so much so that have them on all 4 of our glocks (wifes and mine)19, 19, 17 and a 35. i shoot anywhere from 1000-3000 rnds a month and have never had a problem with them. couldn't tell about your safety concern and the extra orafice as i never carry a round in the chamber. they also work well with my Fobus holsters, kind of extra secure as they slide right over the outside. anyway they are fine if your just going to a movie or dinner with the family, on the range or in matches i use the fobus holster. as for the fella whoose came loose, i don't if he forgot to use the locktite, or if he got a bad batch of lock-tite, that has happened to me with lock-tite on another piece of equipment. joe
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| Had a clipdraw, didn't like it. Even a 26 is too heavy for this one clip, IMHO. Not stable because of only having one clip. Requires modification of the weapon. Fragile attachment with tiny screws. Doesn't cover the trigger. Slower to draw than a real holster. Etc. |
Ditch the Clipdraw, buy a holster, and pipe up if you are serious about protecting yourself. |
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Wow, ok right away, lol, hey there high speed, lets sort this out, first of all, i'm not telling anyone to not use a holster, nor am i bagging on anyone who prefers a holster, i just let the guy know it works well for me, i'm not chasing down suspects, or climbing fences, just walking from my vehicle to wherever. secondly, as far as being "serious about protecting myself" i'll use my own exp./advice. when it comes to "pipeing up". again, not bagging on anyone who perfers to carry locked/loaded, but not carrying locked & loaded works better for me. To further clarify, i consider myself fairly serious about protecting myself and my family, so much so that the issue doesn't rest soly on "pipeing up", more so it has been a way of life for me for as long as i can remember, I.E. 22 years wrestling 10 years of boxing/kickboxing pro freestyle fighter from 95-2000 T.X. O.K. 37years old and am more physicly fit than most guys 10 years younger shoot 1000 rounds per session, sometimes 3 times a month situationaly aware at all times, and so is the company i keep and oh ya, combat veteran of A co, 2/75 Rangers, which was the last time i was "piped up", jumping into Rio Hato. I prefer to be situationaly aware and control the situation thru my actions and if warented, then chamber a round. that works for me, if you prefer to carry one up the pipe great, i wouldn't tell you you were wrong, or weren't "serious" without knowing anything else about you. thanks, joe |
Simple question; how many seconds does it take you to draw from the clipdraw and chamber a round? Try it from a number of situations: in the car with the seat belt on, etc. ETA: Try it with one hand just for kicks.... |
Well, good for you. I'm not trying to bash, but if you are not going to carry with one in the chamber then why bother. Granted, you may have great fighting skills and be in great shape, but the a$$hat who jumps you with one in the chamber doesn't care - I would bet he is locked and loaded, are you really that fast?? I'm your typical accountant, I don't jump fences or deal with bad people every day. I carry to protect myself and my family. I would be letting them down if something were to happen and I wasted a second or two chambering a round. I have taken the classes and have over 20k rounds down range in my carry gun - I know the drills, and I stay prepared at all times. To each his own, do what you feel is best for you. But I honestly don't understand why people carry if they don't have a ready weapon. |
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Fiza, thats a good point, but i still don't think you guys are getting mine. I use my exp./training to see things coming and then do what all citizens should, which is leave the situation, and notify police that there are surly types up to no good, and i have done that before. i'm not letting myself get in a quick draw situation in the first place, especially with my kids and other inocent bystanders around. I grew up right next door to the worst hood in L.A., and i easily recognize when these dirt bags are up to something. the bad guys have body languege, and mannerizims which are like red flags to some people. when you couple that with the fact that my family, friends and i are easy going (despite being legit bad asses), low key, polite, people, that treat everyone the way we want to be treated, and that we show neither fear nor aggression, its a plan that works. for us anyway. that doesn't mean that my policy of not carrying a round in the chamber means it stays that way, i have on a few occasions been driving down the road and chambered a round when i didn't like the way things were formulating up ahead. i usually carey my pistol in a secure loction next to me when driving, not on my person under the seatbelt, then put it on my person when leaving the truck. again, i'm not saying you guys that carry chambered are wrong, i just feel its safer for me to not carry a round in the chamber. I guess if i were a police officer i would carry chambered, but i'm not, so i don't. i'm trying to avoid a gunfight, not get in one, shooting someone is a last resort, and like i said, as the situation dictates, my defensive posture changes rapidly. good point on the seatbelt sit. though,thanks, joe
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tintedtahoe, that was well said, read my new post, thats were my head is at, and your 100% right, its our responsability as men to defend our family, and i hope we all do well in that endevor. hey this post was about clip draws and we turned it into a personall defense class, ha, ha, hopefully between all of us the guy who asked the original ques? learned something. I see where your coming from guys and believe me most of my military buddies carey a round in the chamber and think i'm nuts too, lol, i just perfer to error on the side of safety, have a good thanksgiving, joe
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| You could be the fastest guy in world, with eyes in the back of your head, and the ability to read minds, and still not have the time or ability to chamber a round when the SHTF. IMO, carrying without a round in the chamber is like planning to put on your seatbelt after the Peterbuilt crosses the center line. There IS a reason its called "dead man's carry." |
I was military also and we always carried our handguns locked and loaded same as my current place of employment. Rifles were a different story. BTW the "clip" is a piece of crap. Having said that I will sell you a used one for 5 bucks. |
| a good holster and belt combo will be much more secure and comfortable for all day carry. Lots of good holster makers out there. Personally, I would want the trigger covered by a holster for carrying a Glock or revo. Try waistband carry, stuff it in your waistband(unloaded) around the house and figure this is about how the clipdraw will be. |
ai ya ai, perception dictates our reallity tri, and the context of what we take in, or in this case don't take in. i am not trying to change yours or anyone elses mind about carrying a round chambered. my speed and cognative abilities are not the point, the point is i am at least one step ahead of potential threats, and have more than enough time to extracate myself from the situation and chamber a round. i don't simply walk around waiting for something to happen, then be reactionary, and see who is quickest. that is not the way to win a gun fight. if you dont want to listen to guy who has been in a few then there is no helping you. for the former military guy, i dont know what unit or where you served but remember, the situation dictated your carry condition. you stated that your pistols were always chambered and rifles maybe not, while both of ours were chambered at all times, at least in panama, because thats what the enviorment called for. as a civilian i have no reason or bussiness to be walking around in hostile enviorments, i don't go down to the hood to watch a movie with my wife and kids, im not seeking out dangerous situations. on another note, the accountent stated he/we wouldn't have time to take 2 seconds to chamber a round if he/we got "jumped". what your missing in that scene is that if the bad guy jumps you, he has already done 3 things that you have failed to. 1. he looked around and understood his enviorment. 2.he studied his potential marks and decided you weren't paying attention and were least likely to cost him some pain. 3. he decided on a course of action and planned an escape route. all of these things you should be constantly evaluating from your standpoint. 1. were am i and who is around me. 2. identify potential threats and thier possible courses of action.3. is there cover and concealment i can put between me and the bad guys 4.. have a course of action and know your escape routes. is anyone reading me? the reason that Rangers/seals/SF/swat/ and patrol officers win gunfights is not just because they carry chambered or what type of holster they use for gods sake. they do the formentioned things to gain a tactical advantage. there is no reason we cant do the same as a citizen trying to protect himself/family/friends. another point i'd like to make is about the nature of criminals, they are generaly cowards and oppurtunists. yes they do this stuff for a living, which is why they are good at picking out victims. But you can believe me from exp., they see who is got thier act together and who doesn't, they see that my friends and i see them, and they know on instinct its going to cost them something if they have a go at us. and they have always taken a pass. the day they dont will be thier last, and it wont be because of the type of holster we carry, or whether a round was chambered when i got in my car this morning, or the size of our bullets, or how many bullets we carry, it will be because we see them a mile off, and control the situation by gaining a TACTICAL ADVANTAGE. As stated before, i've been in combat, shot people and been shot at, fought for money in the ring, have street exp., Trained swat and srt teams, in other words i understand the nature of violence. if you wont take a few tips from me or all the guys like me, then there is no helping you. and no i'm not ditching my clip draw because it didn't work for you, it works for me in my day to day routine and when the situation dictates i take a holster and extra mags. joe
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| All situational awareness aside, what happens should you get ambushed? I'm not ripping, just curious. Yeah, you can deflect most anything with your presence and abilities, but what happens when you get that one semi-intelligent guy who has the notion to surprise you. What would you do? Now your wallet, keys, jewelry and your gun are now his. |
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Trig, good point, to clarify futher, when i'm running out for milk, or to the hardwhare store, in my own neighborhood, where i know everyone, its not an issue for me. when i pull up if i see people or situations that dont fit, i chamber. but around town i usually just grab my pistol and stick it in my back. clipdraw. if i'm going out of the neighboorhood, or into an enviorment i'm not familiar with, or on a road trip, at a minimum i take a holster and 3 mags and mag holder and am probally chambered if gun is holstered. it works for me, i just dont carry chambered with the clip draw until i see a need. the clip draw just gives me a way to carry more securly without full kit, than just sticking it in my pants. and it works with my holster so its not a problem when i do carry a holster. like i said in the other posts, if i were a cop, and it was my job to confront people, chambered everytime, no doubt, if i were working close protection, chambered, no doubt. as far as your ambusher out there getting the drop on me, ya it could happen, if hes to come out on top, he'll have to shoot me instantly, if hes within arms reach, it gonna be his ass. thats not shit talking, after thousands of hours boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, ju-jitsu, thats just the way it has been, and will continue to be, no amatur on the street is gonna beat me or any other former fighter in close. another way to answer that ques? in that scenario of that ambusher getting the drop on us with his gun already out, pointed at us, are your chances better making 2 moves, 1 to reach for your pistol and 1 to draw and shoot. or 1 move to seize his weapon, and then shove it up his ass? or ya if he's out of reach, and looks away maybe draw move and shoot, just something to think about. also ask yourself this, why is the army now conducting a 2 phase hand to hand class, the first being mostly ju-jitsu and some wrestling, and the second a thai-boxing based stand up to blend with the first phase? they all carry weapons, can call in air/arty support, have belt feds, etc., yet they now send every ranger, SF, and D-boy to it that they can. for me there is not one blanket answer to handle all threats, you train, both armed and un armed, stay physicly fit, continue to learn and challenge yourself, constantly evaluate your situation, do the little things that you can to gain an edge, greet strangers with confidence & respect, and if needed execute your actions as best you can. thats about all we can do brother, joe
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I am also a big believer in situational awareness and knowing your enviroment. I understand and appreciate what you are saying. What you fail to realize is that no matter how mentally prepared you are and how aware you are of your surroundings, you can never be one step ahead of the perp who is PLANNING to attack you. Even if you spot the potential threat a mile away, whatever your first reponse is by definition, REACTIONARY. The aggressor will ALWAYS be the one with the initial advantage, because he has targeted you. He will always know that he is going to attack before you canpossibly know. Once we understand this fact, we also understand that we need every advantage to turn the tables and gain the upper hand. Whatever our first response, whether evasive or violent action, needs to be executed as quickly as possible. Carrying a pistol that has to be manually loaded with both hands negates the fastest response. One of the many advantages of the GLOCK system is that is requires no external safeties to slow us down. When it is carried in condition three, you loose this advantage completely. As much as I like the GLOCK, one would be better served with a revolver that could be fired immediately than an auto with an empty chamber. Also, no matter how fast you can chamber a round, there are no guarantees that you will have two hands available to do so. What do you do if your other hand/arm is injured? How do you load your pistol while you are driving your car, or unlocking a door, or calling 911, or carrying your child? |
You don't understand what he's saying. He's trying to tell you that he has overconfidence to the point of hubris. No one will ever get the jump on him at any time at all, because he is so situationally aware that it won't happen. And even, if by some chance they manage to do so, he will, with his infinite martial arts skill, decimate them with one hand. No situation is beyond his control. No scenario you can present will ever give him the slightest pause. His hands will never be injured, and he will never carry his child anywhere. He has already told you that when he sees the danger coming, he racks the slide ahead of time. All those other times, the spidey sense was quiet, and all remained serene. But beyond that, I think his major point is that he, like others, is uncomfortable jamming a condition one Glock in his pants with an exposed trigger. So he chooses to not chamber a round when he's adopting a no-holster methd of carry, such as the clipdraw. |
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Tri burst, all good points, i guess you missed the parts were i said that there are times when i carry chambered, and thats at my discression. this mystry man out there, waiting to ambush me, i'm not sure who he is, so let me know who he is if you do, i got news for you, if somebody is going to particulary target any one of us, there aint jack shit you can do about it, any well executed ambush, especially in a military context, your shot before you even know they are there, being chambered won't help me or anyone else in that context. now in the urban enviorment, the only one waiting to hunt me or anyone else down in particluar is a pro hitter, and to my knowledge, there isn't anyone that wants my butt that bad. and if there is, there isn't shit i can do about, exept lock myself in a hole and chamber a round. you get the point, we are all out there making a living, running erands, spending time with our familys, if this mystery man out you describe is after me in particular, there aint much i can do about it, so why worry about it. i'm going to the drop zone tomorrow, so i wont be around to respond to this endless thread, hopefully no one trys to ambush me in the plane, or in the air, as i don't usually skydive with my gun, which would be what?, condition 0, lol, joe
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matti, anyone can get got, even me, and even guys who are better than me, however guys like you seem to think that your condition 1 gun is going to solve all your problems, ive met guys like you before, it usually turns out they are out of shape, never been in a fight, never been shot at, loud mouthes who talk real tough on the internet, but not in person. so fuck you smart ass rookie, joe
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Could it be........he is The One???? 
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No, no. I don't think my condition 1 gun will solve all problems. Far from it. But by eliminating the condition 3 gun, that's one less problem to deal with.  You see, to me a gun is a tool. I don't depend on the gun to be the weapon. I am the weapon. A gun merely enhances that in certain situations. And in most cases, the gun is going to be my last resort. As a last resort, i'd prefer that it be ready to go, without the hassle of racking the slide. As for rookie? You may believe what you wish. Spouting your training and ex-military background doesn't impress anyone here, anymore than what I am saying now will impress you. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I haven't seen any tough talk from myself in this thread. You're the one that seems to seek acceptance from everyone with your military background, Panama gunfights, and kickboxing for money. Perhaps, however, you are not as confident in yourself as you present from behind the keyboard. A mere 'smart ass rookie' has driven you to cursing him and getting all bent out of shape with a single paragraph. You would do better to examine why that is. Have a lovely day. |
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matti, you make your point well, and i apologize for getting bent, it gets a guys dander up when you make a joke out of his hard earned exp., calling it spidey sense, and calling it overconfidense, i dont seek acceptence from anyone by sprouting my military exp. and other exp., merely trying to qualify my statements as someone who knows what hes talking about. further, all those scenerios you think, that i think i wont be in, i have been in, i fought in panama injured, its callled a purple heart, i fought many times in the ring with injuries, not because im so bad, because it was my job, and i had mouthes to feed. and etc. etc., so ya, it pisses me off when you make a joke of it. fact is there are alot of guys like me around here, and we have enough sense and respect to listen to eachother, just like i listen to the guys coming out of iraq/afgahn., we dont mock it. and like you said, the gun is a tool, your the weapon, if you train that is. joe p.s. all this garbege cause i like my clipdraw and i dont always carried chambered? jeez, get a life, or another hobby, were not living in mogadishu, at least i'm not. |