[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Glock Hazard (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/1/2007 9:55:57 PM EDT
| A friend of mine racked a round into the chamber of his Glock, letting the slide slam forward and the gun fired. Fortunately no one was hurt. He did some research and found that this hazard is common knowledge to police forces who use Glocks. Their training with Glocks includes instruction to let the slide return carefully when loading the 1st round. As I understand it this problem can occur if there is dirt or obstruction under the firing pin base which holds it out from it's normally flat position. Then when the slide slams forward it smacks the extended firing pin causing it to slam forward firing the round in the chamber. Have any of you heard of this problem? |
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I call extreme bullshit on this. If the weapon discharged from the slide slamming home on the initial loading of the weapon, wouldn't it just slam fire full auto through a magazine? The slide slamming home after a round is fired is more violent than just doing it by hand so you'd think that it would do it consistently. The gunzone story that was posted is a great example of the bullshitedness of this. It says that the LEO chambered a round in the bedroom and it discharged ONCE so the LEO took it to his department to have a range officer inspect it. The range officer took it out back of the range (which this qualifies him as a retard if this is even 1% true or he even exists) and loaded a fresh magazine and chambered the first round and discharged again...ONCE! On the third attempt it says that the weapon performed a three round burst...which again, if the weapon was consistently ADing on a slide drop then one would assume that it is some sort of a sear problem and would cause it to full auto. If you do not own a glock and have never looked at a disassembled glock, this may be hard for you to understand. If you remove a slide from a glock, there is a little button on the inside portion of the slide that is one of the integral safeties. The transfer bar for the trigger has a little nub on it which pushes this button in and frees the firing pin to do its business. ONLY when the trigger is depressed can the firing pin move forward to strike the primer on a loaded round. Many independent and unbiased people have conducted their own drop tests on glocks and found that you would practically have to destroy the weapon before you would ever be able to get the thing to discharge. You could drop the thing off of a sky scraper and it would shatter the weapon but you would not see a discharge. So really what I'm getting at is....  
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I have five stories of LEO's negligently discharging Glocks and Sigmas here in W. Mass alone. One "firearms safety" instructor just got done telling everyone in the academy class how "dangerous" the Glock is because you have to pull the trigger to disassemble it, so make sure your chamber is clear. They patched the hole in the wall the next day. One officer was "cleaning his weapon" in the locker room on duty. They replaced the floor tile. Another officer was "cleaning his weapon" (see a pattern here?) while on dispatch duty. They had to replace the keyboard. Yet another officer was at home cleaning his G23 (yes, it was right after his annual qualification, so I buy this one) and shot his floor. When the downstairs neighbor came up to check on him after the plaster fell off the ceiling in his infant's room where he was sleeping, the officer told him "It's OK, I'm a cop, go home". His Chief fired him and revoked his LTC as an "unsuitable person". Now, the best of them all. An FTO was driving the cruiser with his rookie in the passenger seat. They got into a short persuit and drew their weapons to make a felony stop. When the FTO drew his Glock, he "involuntary" squeezed his right hand when he pulled the handle to open the cruiser door, shooting his rookie in the leg! Ni disclipinary action was taken, and both the FTO and his Chief blamed the "accident" on the unsafe design of the Glock without an external safety. Forget about simple safe handling skills of not putting your finger in the trigger until you are ready to fire. This story sounds like the shooter making a mistake and blaming the machine, instead of the operator. I have heard of this happening on weapons, like an AR15/M16 with a floating firing pin on a round which has been chambered many, MANY times, but never on a Glock. |
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Never have I heard of any of that. Your friend fired that weapon by pulling the trigger. Also the arguement that the POLICE had a weapon with dirt or obstruction in the weapon causing a ND..... Seems like every round in the mag would fire if the pin was stuck.... or atleast two. 
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As a factory trained Glock Transition Instructor and a factory trained Glock Armorer I have to say... I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING. I have heard of people unintentionally pressing the trigger and then lying and saying the gun just went off by its self! If there was so much crap built up in the firing pin channel that caused the firing pin to protrude out the bolt face, making the pistol fire when a round was chambered... it would have continued to fire until the magazine was empty. Many people have trouble admitting they screwed up and unintentionally fired a weapon. An act that could have cost someone their life. So, rather than say they screwed up, they claim the weapon malfunctioned. Your buddy is having trouble dealing with the fact he screwed up! There is no such instruction by LEO trainers to carefully close the slide when chambering the first round! NONE. In fact we teach the opposite. We teach to let the slide snap forward fully to ensure the round chambers and the slide goes fully into battery. If your buddy can provide links to such information you have indicated in your post... POST IT HERE. I want to see that information! I am sure others would like to see it too! |
Just to add there were alot of NDs at my work. (6) All of them were off duty in their rooms, all of them were aiming the weapons at something (it got shot) and all of them were fired.Basicly they had ammo and a gun and wanted to "practice" and refused in their arrogance to seperate the two. NEVER play with a weapon indoors. |
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Here is a tip, Glocks only fire when the trigger is pulled. It will not go bang by dropping it, chambering a round or any other method. The trigger safety must be disengaged before the striker will trip. The striker has no forward force on it after firing so it does not stay forward. TGZ has a hard on for Glocks so everything that come from there is total BS. |
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I can only speak from my own experiance, I had at least 10,000 rounds through my AF issued g17, and I have about 6k through my personal g22, I have never had a ND, I have never had a FTF/E I dropped my g17 14 floors down a tower access ladder (many bounces) and only needed new rear sites, no bang, no magazine falling out, nada. Glocks do not fail, users do. wish I had that BS flag saved. Morcoth |
When you are posting, under the Font selection pull-down, there is a button called Animations it is in there.  Ever think that your Glocks are defective, if everyone else's are exploding and going off on their own and yours don't maybe yours is the one with the problem. Just saying. |
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For me, the jury is out on whether this is a . Its 50/50 either way. I'm just gonna recommend that he reads The Gun Zone. And form his own opinions. Everything else is  .The Kool-Aid drinkers and the skeptics are never going to agree on this one. IMHO, this discussion is pointless unless you get into very specific details. The reality for me is that by Murphy's Law, anything can malfunction. The only question is when and how often. Besides, if you have a problem with malfunctions with your Glock, send it back to the factory and they'll fix it for free under warranty if there truly is a problem. -Frank |
| I own a 2nd generation G17 police trade in that I bought used. I noticed recently when I pulled the slide back the firing pin would be sticking out of the breach face. I disassembled the pistol and ran a q-tip into the firing pin channel, and it was full of oil and crud. So it is possible for the firing pin to extend out of the breach face if the firing pin channel is oiled and becomes dirty. I never had a slam fire or any other problem with this gun, but I dont know how long this was going on. |
You can dry fire a Glock and just break the slide and look at the breach face and sometimes you can see the "firing pin" (actually it is the tip of the striker) protruding, the point is that there is nothing holding that forward with enough force to set the primer off. The firing pin on an AR floats, it hits the primer hard enough to dent it and yet it does not set it off. His buddy clearly pull the trigger if the incident actually happened. |
I think this story is BS, but I gotta pipe up here. I had a 1911 with a protruding firing pin. It discharged the first round, but not the rest. Why? The protruding firing pin disrupted the ejection cycle causing a failure to eject. |
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I found the gun zone link when I was researching the G-19. I think the story is a bit out there but, stuff happens. I carried a G-22 for a few years as a LEO and now own two G-19's and a G-21.....so for the record I'm a die hard Glock user. I trust my life and my families life to Glock. I only posted the link for additional info. Please refrain from calling me a troll. Pete |
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Any firearm with a floating firing pin can do this but it is not likely. The gist of what happens is that the firing pin either breaks or bends and causes it to protrude through the breach face. Functionally, it turns the weapon into an open bolt weapon similar to an UZI or 240. After the first round, recoil can press the broken or bent firing pin back into the chanel. Dirt can also do it but it is less likely. I wouldn't say that it is impossible but it is not likely. |
Normal on ANY Glock, dirty or not. 
Yep, VERY rare, and some early 2nd gen Glock G17s & G19s as well.  |
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So when your friend's slide came forward the Glock went off all on it's own, huh? So why didn't it go off continously until all of the rounds in the magazine were spent? Letting a Glock get a dirty firing pin base makes them fully auto? Likely the reason your friend's Glock only went off once is because he took his finger off the trigger after the first time he accidently discharged the weapon. Never heard of such a thing before. I have to call BS as well and think we may all be feeding a troll. CSP |
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Two things would have to malfunction, first the striker would have to be stuck forward. Durring normal operation when the slide closes the striker is caught on the trigger bar and retracted to the semi pre position. So in your firing pin stuck forward scenario when the slide closed and the striker caught on the trigger bar, for it to go off it would have to break either the trigger bar or striker for the striker to stay forward, what it actually would do is prevent the slide from closing. |
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Yeah I agree with the rest and throw in the bullshit flag on that one. Never have I never in the 20+ Glock's I have owned has anything remotely happened to me regardless of how much dirt, debris or whatever was in the weapon when chambered or fired. That was purely operator error and they are too chicken shit to admit they screwed up and blamed the weapon!
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So your sayin ya give up and the arfcom glock beatdown can stop? Its all good. I've started threads where I was jumped on like a meat salesman at a leopard ranch. |
Wait a minute, as a glock armorer, and a police officer I have never heard of this or been taught this. If a weapon is properly maintained and inspected yearly by an armorer recomended for (LE Duty weaons) the dirt under the fireing pin would never happen. the record I belive is over 100,000 rounds for a 9mm glock 17 rental gun, could even be higher by now. I have seen were differnt types of abuse have resulted in differnt situations with officers guns that did cause malfunctions but like I said these were due to failure to clean and in some cases out and out abuse/negligence. For most glocks all you need to do is follow your manual and routine cleaning will give a life time of service. Colt |
I wasn't calling you a troll...I was calling the OP a likely troll. |
+1. Apparently true, but only on early versions on the G19, which have since been corrected. Any Glock armorer should be happy to check out your G19 to see if it should be modified. The pin doesn't fire the round, but the bottom of the breech face on earlier versions of the 19 had squared edges which could fire the primer. Also, earlier versions would not pass the "frisbee toss". If thrown like a frisbee with the right side down and a full mag inserted, or struck really hard on the right side, the gun would fire. Newer guns have been fixed to prevent this. Extremely rare instances in all cases. |
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I just don't see why people bother posting threads like this. If they ARE having legitimate ND's that could be very dangerous then they NEED to be on the phone with the manufacturer and they need to immediately stop using the weapon and I suggest dismantling the weapon into two halves and put a cable lock around the lower frame to prevent possible reassembly, confusion, a forgetful mind, or further accidents until the situation is resolved through the factory. There is nothing that most people here can do to help an issue like this and even if the issue is legitimate, chances are that you'll get called out as a troll given the fact that you seemingly haven't gone the route that you are intended to take with this situation. As for the gunzone, take the stories with a grain of salt. While some of them may be based on an ounce of truth, it is hardly a definitive resource for Glock related information or facts. If it was the bottom edge of the slide causing the primer to get punched, this further proves that in itself, this is a bullshit theory. The bottom edge of the slide is static and 100% non-mechanical and if it were going to cause this, it would slamfire full auto so in the above listed story or gunzone story (if either are true and not just a trigger discipline fuckup) this is not the cause. Again, as for the "dirty firing pin" to cause this, the ENTIRE slide, trigger, and transfer bar safety systems would have to fail because the firing pin release will not allow the firing pin to move freely unless it is 100% defective which you can check yourself or if the trigger is depressed to activate the button with the transfer bar's nub. 
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Yup, called operator error. Remember the complaints about the Jeep Cherokee's surging forward, reverse? All beacuse the pedals were a little different, people would press on the gas thinking it was the brake. I know because I did it once in a work vehicle; me stupidly with foot on gas as I changed gears. When I hit reverse the vehicle lurched back, and I hit the gas instead of the brake. Only damage was a dead sign, some scratches and my bruised ego. Fortunately it was a work vehicle and I've been laughed at before/since. Most people would rather blame the machine than the man. |
The slide is static? The slide on my glock goes back and forth pretty damn fast. Do you know how an open bolt subgun works? The firing pin is a machined dimple on the front of the bolt face. Look, I love glocks, I carry glocks. I would go so far as to say Glocks are the best combat handgun system out there. Suffolk county PD could reproduce the discharge with this particular pistol. A G21 would run away full auto, and they could reproduce that also. Some of the earlier glocks failed the DEA safety protocols (the frisbee test, DEA-91-R-0023). There have been refits and modifications done by Glock to prevent any other instances of this. I think Glocks are as safe as any mechanical device. I trust my life to a Glock. There's a shitload of them out there, and I'm sure at least one might be unsafe. I just don't point them anywhere I don't want to send a bullet. |